ASA Contract key items

[FDJ2]

3. And as "Fins" says the very most important issue is "SCOPE"
You will be much better off in the long run if you make sure Delta Air Lines
is part and parcel of your scope language.QUOTE]

But just remember, no pilot group can have scope over the DL code, only their own aircraft. That would be predatory. DL should be allowed to RFP all of their code. Well at least according to the RJDC.

1. Can the DAL pilot group, or any pilot group own/control their code?





In a word, NO. The “code” under which your airline operates is not owned by the Delta pilots and it is not controlled by the Delta pilots. The “code” is owned by Delta Air Lines, Inc. and they alone “control” it. The same applies to other “codes” owned by other airlines.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2 :

Enjoy it while it lasts.

~~~^~~~

 

[PalmettoPilot]

MONEY ISN'T EVERYTHING? I don't think we will see Comair rates...

Tim is making a very critical point and I'm afraid he isn't being heard. If we all just lower our pay scales we can beat MESA to the bottom, everyone will get to be a captain and then we can all be one big happy family.

Sorry Tim, if there were a volunteer airline company I wouldn't sign up for that either.

I'm here because I like the work, but what keeps me walking up to the ops desk every morning is the money that gets deposited in my account twice a month.

Don't settle for less money, our contractual payscales need to be representative of what others in the industry have achieved.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ALPA, at the direction of the Delta MEC has put us in a lose / lose situation. We can't achieve a contract without going the direction of all the other alter ego outfits that have increased costs. I believe the best thing for us as individuals and collectively is just to find work elsewhere.

~~~^~~~

 

[Tim47SIP]

Lighten up Francis!

Tim you are so full of yourself! If CMR rates are the standard, or COEX rates are, then we deserve the same. And we will obtain them! While you remain on military leave IN THE STATES we are out here everyday fighting and putting up with ASA's crap. And when you return you will benefit from our little battles. Of course, I don't expect to see you out on the picket line anytime soon either! You don't know what's going on here because you've been gone so long. So, while you're entitled to your opinion, you really don't know what this pilot group wants do you?


All right guys! maybe I didn't word that post very well. What I was saying is dont put everything in one basket. I WAS NOT stating to take pay CUTS for growth (bad example), NOR was I implying pay cuts at all as you deserve much more than you make now. What I was trying to say is that Comair rates may not be possible in todays environment and that you may want to go after QOL issues that are obtainable. Like I said in my previous post, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Freedood, I am also sorry that I am on MLOA IN THE STATES! I guess that makes me a coward. Well it was here in the states or Korea for 24 months. Since I spent 22 years AD and most of that time away from my family, I thought I would try to be home a little more. I appologize for making the wrong decision. I would also be there on the pickett line if it were legal for me to do so, but it is not. And if you know me, then you also know that I stay in close contact with no less than 15 individuals from the GO, training dept, and line guys on a weekly basis. You must also know who those individuals are. I get a pretty good idea of what the pilot group wants, and I want the same as they do. I want the best for you guys as well. Heck! I hope you get all the QOL issues and Comair +1%. Do you deserve it, of course! Is it achievable with Delta's current situation? Maybe, maybe not. The CNC will work those issues.

P.S. I have only been gone 10 months. Have a great day.

 

[CarjCapt]

[

So you understand fully what I meant by:

"You will be much better off in the long run if you make sure Delta Air Lines is part and parcel of your scope language."

That means ASA pilots would negotiate with Delta Air Lines Management directly instead of the puppet management that Delta Air Lines pulls the strings on today.

That would be very difficult to accomplish because of the forces against, such as but not limited to ASA Management, Delta Air Lines Management, DALPA and ALPA National.

 

[CapnVegetto]

When are you legal to strike?

 

[~~~^~~~]

We don't know yet. We have to continue with our attempts to negotiate a contract with a party that has no authority to make decisions on our contract.

If you have ever done a big deal in South America with three dozen intermediaries, you get the idea. We are still negotiating with the Generalissimo's second cousin, Pedro.

"Oh no Senior, he no can do that. No mas dinero. Pardon, mui Pardon, perhaps you like a little plastic sombraero instead of any time off for siesta?"

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2 :

Enjoy it while it lasts.

~~~^~~~

Fins, why were your answers so different from Surplus's answers? Would you still support the lawsuit knowing that your understanding of the relief section was so wrong? Or was Surplus's understanding wrong?

 

[FDJ2]

[

So you understand fully what I meant by:

"You will be much better off in the long run if you make sure Delta Air Lines is part and parcel of your scope language."

That means ASA pilots would negotiate with Delta Air Lines Management directly instead of the puppet management that Delta Air Lines pulls the strings on today.

That would be very difficult to accomplish because of the forces against, such as but not limited to ASA Management, Delta Air Lines Management, DALPA and ALPA National.

You might want to also throw in the RJDC, which believes that scope that controls an airline's code is illegal. Viva the whipsaw, RFP's for everyone and no scope for anyone.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2 :

Surplus and I agree - the current contract made without the participation of the people who should have been a party is illegal and should be voided. That only means that another contract would be written, or that the parties would agree to a revision of the current contract. Given the current state of the Comair and ASA MEC's, who knows?

Once the regional guys get the same rights to representation that you enjoy it is up to their Pilots, their Local Reps, MEC's and ALPA National what they do with that representation. I can not pretend to speak for all those folks, all I can say is that they have a right to be heard.

ASA's contract will not change scope as we know it. The ASA MEC is not even asking ALPA National for our representational rights. They believe that fight was lost at the 2000 BOD.

But, the water at ASA and Comair was poisioned by ALPA's conduct at the 2,000 BOD and that malfeasance continues to cause problems at our employer today. ASA pilots are very concerned about MESA, Comair's concessions for jets and already I can tell you that Republic will try to replace the United deal with another Delta deal. Every one of these deals is a threat to the pay, working conditions and job security of every ASA pilot.

This is not like other struggles for representation. The repressed have few options if you do not allow them to use representational tools. A "strike" is similar to rioting in the streets - it shuts down the economy. You and your buddies have put ASA pilots in the position where the only way that they can have their voices heard is to shut this place down and that is what I expect they will do.

~~~^~~~

 

[Old Crow]

I think it goes without saying that the money we make is substandard, however, this should be the real eye-opener to management.

I will "accept" our pay rates as sub-standard due to the current economy eventhough you pseudo-delta managers are paid quite well. However, I will strike until the cows come home if the scheduling issues and quality of life issues are not fixed. I believe that about everyone at ASA would agree.

Example, Occourance program. What grade are we in? This type of management is for Military schools. Why not have a system where we can march off demerits? I can see it now... "What did John do? Oh, he got sick three times within three months, he's got to march for three hours around the flag pole"