ASA classes

[srjorion]

All the FA's are smokin hot.....

Either you have a granny fetish or you are gay.

 

[Airboss]

Here is what I was told by Danny R. 4 classes, about 76 total people from March - May, for pilot attrition. After that nothing is scheduled until we get this contact done.

 

[EMB to CRJ]

He has a point, don't get bitter. But for the love of God realize your own self worth. Blue Collar mentality doesn't describe what you just said. Christ, just because I agreed to the work rules when I started I don't have the right to want an improvement? I think I just threw up in my mouth. All the FA's are smokin hot, the uniforms are really cool, you hardly ever work, and the overnights are a raging party every time. Sure beats the office! Good luck in class guys, it still is a really fun job. I'm not quiting just yet. But realize you deserve better than what your signing on for and don't get too wrapped up in all of the drama at work. Never would have been the job it used to be if pilots all thought like EMB.

My point is that things are not really bad here. Do you know of any regional that has got a big raise post 9/11(horizon which every one talks about is a pre 9/11 contract in a very non completive market). In the past the Airlines were making more and more money each year(with some set back every now and then) but never this long term time of losses in the billions. Why should we hate ASA because they don’t want to rush to give us every thing we want. Sure you have the right to want more but to dam the place because they don’t want to give it to us and where does it stop? You talk about self worth, a pilot worth it not unlimited and why do you think it should keep going up each year? Just like any other job there are limits to the pay some one who stand at the door of Wall Mart will never make 100k a year(unless we all want them to roll up the prices big time) At some point they will not be able to give us a raise. The rj cost are already height because it is so small and we currently get more per seat than main line did in the good old days(777 top rate was $300/277 seats 1.08 per person per hour vs. an rj at $75 for 12 years /50 or 1.5 person. ) I would love to get more money but unless the company (any company) has an increasing profit margin (revenue - cost) how can they keep paying the employees(raising cost) more and more each year with out bring more money in or cutting cost else ware(Since the sale ASA has got rid of some of the fat and the Go and tried to reduce maintance cost). The regional are now flying for less revenue per mile now that before and the trend will continue until the revenue at the main line gets better. You may say this is company kool-aid but look at any sec filings or data from the DOT. Below you will see that ASA (and all the regional’s) margin is going down. ASA only made slightly more money in the 3rd qtr or 2005 as it did in the 3rd qtr of 2003 and we all know how much bigger we are now.

Table 4: Domestic Operating profit/(loss) margin (in percent)

Commuter/Regional Carriers
Ranked by 3rd Quarter 2003 Margin
(Operating Profit/Loss as Percent of Total Operating Revenue)
Excel | CSV

2Q 2003 Rank​

Reg/Commuter Carriers​

3rd Quarter 2002 (%)​

4th Quarter 2002 (%)​

1st Quarter 2003 (%)​

2nd Quarter 2003 (%)​

3rd Quarter 2003 (%)​

Operating Profit/(Loss) $(Millions)​

1
Air Wisconsin
8.7
8.2
6.8
11.6
21.4
$29.1
2
Atlantic Coast
N/A
-2.1
1.5
18.3
16.6
36.6
3
Comair
N/A
-1.7
5.6
13.6
15.8
42.4
4
American Eagle
15.7
8.5
9.6
16.2
15.7
43.6
5
Sky West
N/A
13.8
16.9
10.9
15.7
36.3
6
Express Jet
N/A
13.5
13.4
12.4
12.8
41.6
7
Atlantic Southeast
10.5
11.7
11.2
15.3
12.7
25.9

Group Total
N/A
4.1
9.7
14.2
15.4
$255.5



Table 4: Quarterly Domestic Operating profit/loss margin (in percent)

Regional Carriers
Ranked by 3rd Quarter 2005 Margin
(Operating Profit/Loss as Percent of Total Operating Revenue)
Excel | CSV

3Q 2005 Rank​

Regional Carriers​

3rd Quarter 2004 (%)​

4th Quarter 2004 (%)​

1st Quarter 2005 (%)​

2nd Quarter 2005 (%)​

3rd Quarter 2005 (%)​

3rd Quarter Operating Profit/Loss $(Millions)​

1
Mesa
7.9
11.9
13.2
13.9
13.0
37.8
2
American Eagle
14.1
14.9
13.5
14.3
12.3
56.9
3
SkyWest
12.3
11.3
10.1
11.6
11.1
46.1
4
Atlantic Southeast
9.0
9.4
-0.2
10.2
9.6
29.3
5
ExpressJet
12.4
13.3
9.1
9.2
8.5
30.1
6
Comair
8.1
-0.2
1.6
4.4
2.6
9.2
7
Pinnacle
11.0
9.7
10.3
10.7
-14.6
-32.4

Seven-Carrier Total
11.0
10.4
8.5
10.7
7.4
177.2



[FONT=&quot]If you ran a company with decreasing margins would you be so quick give your employees more money just because they want it especially if it could cost you growth (you say more kool-aid but look who has the best margin, made more money that us and who was not even big enough to be on the dot 3 years ago, the evil mesa but they are there and will be there). A raise of any amount cost a lot of money. ASA has about 1800 pilots who fly say 80 a month, each dollar and hour raise cost the company $ 1,728,000.00 (80 * 1800 * 12) . Say the average pilot makes $45 and hour(60 for the cpt and 30 for the FO) the 17% raise(which I think was our request) would cost 13,219,200.00 (7.65 and hour * 80 * 12 * 1800). If we are making 120 mill a year they could afford it now but what about every one else that works here and wants a raise, other parts of the new contract will cost money, if we get 17% are you still going to want 3% more a year after that , what if the cost of gas goes up, what if there is another 9/11. Should they just give pilots raises until he company is barely breaking even or loosing money or is it a company something that is supposed to make a profit? Just like us companies try to cut cost when times get hard. When the price of gas was $3.00 a gallon would you pay BP oil 3.10 for the same product just because his workers wanted more money to do the same thing as shell which was only charging 2.90, or Qt that was at 2.93 because there labor was less? For Delta and there cost + contracts that is what can happen if one labor group get way more that the other. Where would you get your gas? One more point for the devils advocate before company haters pounce. In the last 4 years has the work at ASA become harder? Has it become more dangerous? Please provide some data(that you can back up) or recent contracts at other carriers that would support us getting a big raise other that that we just want one or back up the idea the company is evil and that ASA is a bad place to work compared to other regional other that company is not being quick to do the contract which could be done if we would just agree to messa + 1%. Fire away. [/FONT]

 

[Crash Pad]

I'll give you more than one reason.
1. We have waited long enough
2. All I want for Christmas is a new contract
3. Stoping whipsaw
4. Pilots don't buy aircraft
5. Unless you haven't followed steel, Ford, GM, UAIR, United, Comair, NWA mechanics, Coex, DAL, ACA etc... We are trying to get a contract that makes us uncompetative so the top 10% can tell there kids how good it used to be "back in the day". That is what unions do. If you are in the top 10% it is rather cherry.
6. We have to raise the bar
7. You are drinking management Kool-Aid... Whoever let you on here with facts and SEC numbers should be shot. This is a pilots forum where you shoot from the hip and worry about facts later.
8. We have taken a pay cut since we haven't had a contract since 84'
9. Everything else has gone up. Gas, Cable, Heat, etc... but my pay hasn't moved
10. Management seems to get there bonuses on time.

This is the short list of Union slogans I can remember. Please someone else join in with the ones I forgot.

 

[Crash Pad]

EMB to CRJ... Just in case you are management. Is there any way in the new contract you could make a "part time pilot" like the FA's have. I want a 35-40 hour garuntee and only want to work 10 days a month.... Oh and I keep my travel bennies. No Union would be crafty enough to ask for that... That gentleman is how you get a commuter clause.

Oh and if you are management... SKYW's contract will get 50% of the vote... Just a thought

 

[AlphaSierra01]

just got the call today for the class on 4/10. Thanks to all for all the input and help over the last few months.

What do they pay in training? Do they provide lodging? Single or double occupancy?

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

All the FA's are smokin hot.....

Either you have a granny fetish or you are gay.

Exactly what I thought. Cool uniforms? Where? Raging party overnights? I don't know where you work (if at all) but these 'overnights' you talk about are not here. Hardly ever work? Let's see how you think after a three day followed by two naps in a row, ONE day off and then a 4 day. If you think ASA is the "ultimate" place to work, fine, just don't fill other applicants heads with pictures of things you described here. There are many worse places to work for sure, but it is no picnic here. I have been here over 6 yrs and hold a good line and pretty much am not bothered by scheduling. I bid my trips, work and head to the house. I know plenty of folks on reserve who would not agree with anything you have described that goes on here. Basically this, if folks want to apply great, but let THEM decide if your description fits.

 

[FL990]

What do they pay in training? Do they provide lodging? Single or double occupancy?

You get 75 hr guarantee, single occ. hotel at red roof until you finish IOE.

There are a few things that they won't tell you (or at least i don't remember them telling me in training) that you should know.

First, when you get into IOE, there is a Good chance that you will go over the 75 hrs of guarantee credit. this is by claiming 3.75 hrs for each day that you did a sim or classroom training. For example if in May you have 5 days of groundschool, 8 days sim, 1 day checkride, and 30 hrs of IOE you would claim on your pay credit sheet 14 x 3.75 which is 52.5 hrs. The 30 hrs you fly would automatically go in, so for the month you would get paid 82.5 hrs. This is in the contract and they don't train the contract in initial...or at least they didn't back when i went through training. If you don't fill out the pay credit sheet for the 52.5 hrs of class/sim, you will not get credited for that. You will still get guarantee, but won't go over.

The other thing is that once you get done with IOE, you are allowed to pick up the trips you want out of open time to fill your schedule for the rest of the month. If you don't tell them what you want, they will put on your schedule what THEY want you to do.

Hope these pointers help.

 

[flyinhigh6165]

I just recieved the call for a May 8th class. Anybody else in that one?

 

[OARfan]

All the FA's are smokin hot.....

Exactly what I thought. Cool uniforms? Where? Raging party overnights? I don't know where you work (if at all) but these 'overnights' you talk about are not here. Hardly ever work? Let's see how you think after a three day followed by two naps in a row, ONE day off and then a 4 day. If you think ASA is the "ultimate" place to work, fine, just don't fill other applicants heads with pictures of things you described here. There are many worse places to work for sure, but it is no picnic here. I have been here over 6 yrs and hold a good line and pretty much am not bothered by scheduling. I bid my trips, work and head to the house. I know plenty of folks on reserve who would not agree with anything you have described that goes on here. Basically this, if folks want to apply great, but let THEM decide if your description fits.

Should have put a "rrriiiiight" after that sentence or one of those winky things for all who took me seriously. Sorry, so sorry. What's wrong with older women?

 

[BCpilot81]

I am leaving for class that begins of 4/10. I have been in the pool since Nov. 1 of last year. From what I understand it is all to cover attrition. I know it sucks to wait, but do not wait this long and shoot yourself in the foot by making someone irritated with you.

 

[www.]

My point is that things are not really bad here. Do you know of any regional that has got a big raise post 9/11(horizon which every one talks about is a pre 9/11 contract in a very non completive market).
[FONT=&quot]Fire away. [/FONT]

Your a PUTZ!

If you like numbers so much go into management. You haven't been around this industry long enough to know what the hell your talking about. Go back to your right seat and do your W & B and leave the contract issues to people that know what is going on.

 

[IHateDaley]

I just recieved the call for a May 8th class. Anybody else in that one?

Nothing here,
been waiting since September.

 

[Kerveball]

I just got the call today for class May 8th. I originally interviewed on October 4th and 5th. I am currently working for American Eagle. I can't decide what to do. The fact that I live just outside of Atlanta is pulling me towards going to ASA. Any thoughts?

 

[Turkey Shoot]

I work for another regional and have an interview with ASA soon. It's a pay cut but QOL is the biggest concern for me right now. Talk with another guy that left my company a couple years back and says no regrets.

 

[sweptback]

I just got the call today for class May 8th. I originally interviewed on October 4th and 5th. I am currently working for American Eagle. I can't decide what to do. The fact that I live just outside of Atlanta is pulling me towards going to ASA. Any thoughts?

All other factors aside, living where you work is a beautiful thing. If you don't have much time in at Eagle, you're not going to be losing much by switching.

 

[AlphaSierra01]

With so many people in the pool, are the new hires currently going into the pool or a training class?

 

[FL990]

First, when you get into IOE, there is a Good chance that you will go over the 75 hrs of guarantee credit. this is by claiming 3.75 hrs for each day that you did a sim or classroom training. For example if in May you have 5 days of groundschool, 8 days sim, 1 day checkride, and 30 hrs of IOE you would claim on your pay credit sheet 14 x 3.75 which is 52.5 hrs. The 30 hrs you fly would automatically go in, so for the month you would get paid 82.5 hrs. This is in the contract and they don't train the contract in initial...or at least they didn't back when i went through training. If you don't fill out the pay credit sheet for the 52.5 hrs of class/sim, you will not get credited for that. You will still get guarantee, but won't go over.

The other thing is that once you get done with IOE, you are allowed to pick up the trips you want out of open time to fill your schedule for the rest of the month. If you don't tell them what you want, they will put on your schedule what THEY want you to do.

Hope these pointers help.

I have gotten a couple of private msgs from guys asking about what I discussed in the above post...I NEED TO CLARIFY.

The 52.5 hrs that I speak of above IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. It could be more or less, depending on how many days you spent in class, sim, checkride.

Any questions, just shoot my a msg. I will be happy to help anyone who needs it. I want to make sure you get paid what you are owed because if you don't put it on a pay credit sheet, when it comes to ground training, you won't get credit for it. you will simply get guarantee (75hrs). You have to claim it to get credit for it on your pay.

 

[BCpilot81]

Upgrade Times

I would ditch the whole Eagle thing. Yeah it is a stable job, but u dont want to be just "considered" for upgrade 6-8 yrs. down the road. The pay is bad enough, let alone to have to deal with it for that long.

 

[Sinca3]

Actually their pay isn't that bad and it's not like ASA is upgrading that fast (5 yrs+)!! Eagle pilots are making $6 more an hour than I am on the 50 seater for the same year ($69 vs $63 hr)

 

[Flying Ninja]

I take it the party's over? All classes filled?

 

[drinksonme]

Are any of you concerned with the situation at DAL, and what that means for Skywest/ASA. I know ASA, lets get it right, Skywest is hiring for their ASA division, but if DAL goes tits up, what do you think is going to happen. Just curious. And the ExpressJet airplanes that ASA, I'm sorry, Skywest is bidding on for their ASA division, all I have to say to that is they better not count their chicken before they hatch. Express has until Sept. to decided what they are going to do. Continental can say what they want about having 69 airplane available, but if Express opts to keep them, then that is out as well. To my knowledge, Skywest/ASA does not have a single ERJ on-line, nor any simulators, nor instrutors to train anyone. The start up cost alone will scare CAL away.

 

[BCpilot81]

Are any of you concerned with the situation at DAL, and what that means for Skywest/ASA. I know ASA, lets get it right, Skywest is hiring for their ASA division, but if DAL goes tits up, what do you think is going to happen. Just curious. And the ExpressJet airplanes that ASA, I'm sorry, Skywest is bidding on for their ASA division, all I have to say to that is they better not count their chicken before they hatch. Express has until Sept. to decided what they are going to do. Continental can say what they want about having 69 airplane available, but if Express opts to keep them, then that is out as well. To my knowledge, Skywest/ASA does not have a single ERJ on-line, nor any simulators, nor instrutors to train anyone. The start up cost alone will scare CAL away.

I really have to say that I am with you as far as Expressjet goes. They hold a very lucrative market and something will be settled between them and main line CAL. But as far as DAL and Skywest/ASA, DAL will lose way to much money to let that happen. But at least I am hoping that is the case.