ASA check your DEC-JAN flight times!!

[COOPERVANE]

I haven't reconciled my flight time in several months. I was comparing FLICA to my records and found many,many mistakes on FLICA. On SEVERAL occasions we left at least 8-15 min late and thats's how I logged it in the flight log.

Yet on flica, we miraculously left on time!! This ended up eating up about 1.33 hours of premium!!!

Anyone else notice this? Anyone care?

Should I challenge these times? How?

If this is happening company wide, it could add up to a pretty good chunk of change for the company. But I'm sure they wouldn't do that

 

[sweptback]

Should I challenge these times? How?

If this is happening company wide, it could add up to a pretty good chunk of change for the company. But I'm sure they wouldn't do that

Fill out a pay query form. As long as the times in your logbook match those of the can (which of course they do), you'll get paid for them. Remember, the can rules all.

 

[IFlyFL410]

I noticed that a long time ago too. What I always do is keep an original schedule at the beginning of the month so you'll know exactly how many hours you're scheduled for the month. Note the PR and overblock each leg in your crewlog and tally it up at the end of the month. Compare that to your 15th paycheck. All the time from the can would have gone into the system by then and that is what you should've gotten paid. I never go by flica. A more accurate source is to login like you're dutying in at work, and then go to FLIGHT LOG REPORT. It has more accurate block times than does FLiCA.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

I haven't reconciled my flight time in several months. I was comparing FLICA to my records and found many,many mistakes on FLICA. On SEVERAL occasions we left at least 8-15 min late and thats's how I logged it in the flight log.

Yet on flica, we miraculously left on time!! This ended up eating up about 1.33 hours of premium!!!

Anyone else notice this? Anyone care?

Should I challenge these times? How?

If this is happening company wide, it could add up to a pretty good chunk of change for the company. But I'm sure they wouldn't do that

How does getting an extra 8-15 mins of block time effect your pay in a negative way? At Comair, if I say we are out 5 late, and the station puts us out on time, that's 5 more minutes of pay I get.

 

[bailout]

Double check it on Crew Trac. I know Flica is supposed to update, but as long as your paycheck is right, it doesnt matter.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Flica and crew trac mean nothing for pay! Its based on the log can sheets that are audited later. Keep track of your time and compare to your paycheck. They are calling whatever is on time.

If you have the same numbers in your log as in the can then you should get paid that.

 

[CF34-3B1]

How does getting an extra 8-15 mins of block time effect your pay in a negative way? At Comair, if I say we are out 5 late, and the station puts us out on time, that's 5 more minutes of pay I get.

If an ASA pilot is blocked below guarantee for the month (75hrs) any underblock is paid ABOVE the guarantee paycheck. So those few mins every leg add up.

 

[IFlyFL410]

Yup, that's right. I did naps last month. Flew 41 hours or so with 6.75 underblock. I'll get paid 81.75 hrs for half that much work. No wonder why MGT wants to get rid of underblock pay.

 

[bailout]

Crew Trac = The Can..

 

["GO AROUND"]

Crew Trac = The Can..

Crew trac is not the can. The can is entered by payroll after the sheets are turned in by the crew in the mornings and comat'd over to the g.o.. Crew trac can be different than the can, why do you think flica is different? Cause they update flica from crewtrac. Stations that call the times themselves and don't ask us for them are what go in the computer. This is also why you are responsible for your legality for flight and duty time. Cause scheduling sometimes gets different numbers from the computer than what you put in the can.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

If an ASA pilot is blocked below guarantee for the month (75hrs) any underblock is paid ABOVE the guarantee paycheck. So those few mins every leg add up.

Wow, that's quite a system. I bet you guys fly as fast as you can all the time. With Comair's new PPAS system, we are flying around at .65, going overblock.

 

[atrdriver]

If an ASA pilot is blocked below guarantee for the month (75hrs) any underblock is paid ABOVE the guarantee paycheck. So those few mins every leg add up.

Underblock is paid above guarantee regardless of whether you are above guarantee or not. It is paid on a leg by leg basis. That's why it is so important to keep it in this contract.

 

[sweptback]

Underblock is paid above guarantee regardless of whether you are above guarantee or not. It is paid on a leg by leg basis. That's why it is so important to keep it in this contract.

It would be possible to get rid of premium pay but keep block or better pay. Reserves and naps would not longer benefit from being paid above guarantee, but with decent work rules and minimum pay for the day would make up for it.

As high as fuel costs are, pilots flying fast to make a few extra bucks doesn't make too much sense anymore. That does not mean that we should give up block or better pay... it just has to be worded differently.

 

[atrdriver]

Reserves and naps would not longer benefit from being paid above guarantee, but with decent work rules and minimum pay for the day would make up for it.

Everyone benefits from underblock (premium) pay. The average lineholder here owes about 10-15% of their total paycheck to premium. Too many people here think it only works for nap fliers and reserves, and that is just not right.

 

[jstyle13]

Everyone benefits from underblock (premium) pay. The average lineholder here owes about 10-15% of their total paycheck to premium. Too many people here think it only works for nap fliers and reserves, and that is just not right.

Correct...but all premium does for someone that is over guarantee is build you back up to what you were blocked for orgianally when you end up flying the leg(s) underblock. That's not an additional 10-15% of pay ontop of what you were blocked for from the beginning of the month. If they get rid of premium(which I hope we don't), nap and reserve guys/gals will get screwed and all the overblock line holders will just have to make sure we start flying and taxiing really slow (cept for the last leg of course)....

 

["GO AROUND"]

I'll give em premium for trip/duty rigs. That's it. But they have to fix the trips in order for them to give us that. I hope the new guy over schd./planning who admitted the trips and schedules right now couldn't support rigs lives up to his promise to fix them.

He also said that he is going through training for scheduling and that none of our current or past schedulers have ever been properly trained. I guess he is training at DAL and will make all schedulers go through training as well.

 

[sweptback]

Everyone benefits from underblock (premium) pay. The average lineholder here owes about 10-15% of their total paycheck to premium. Too many people here think it only works for nap fliers and reserves, and that is just not right.

No, I don't benefit from premium pay. I benefit from this part of the contract (Section 2):

S. “Flight Pay Hours” means the actual elapsed time from block-to-block or the scheduled time from block-to-block as published in the monthly bid package, whichever is greater, on all scheduled and non-scheduled flights.

Premium pay, as defined in the contract, is payment above guarantee for underblock pay. If I complete a flight in less than the scheduled time, I still get paid for the scheduled flight time. How the company chooses to reflect that on my paycheck (ie, under the premium category) is up to them.

I still stand by my statement that trading premium pay for trip/duty rigs would be a good thing that would benefit everybody, not just a select group of pilots. Note that I did not say that I would trade block or better pay for rigs.

 

[JustaNumber]

. . . none of our current or past schedulers have ever been properly trained.

Well, that certainly explains a lot. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[ohplease!]

No, I don't benefit from premium pay. I benefit from this part of the contract (Section 2):

S. “Flight Pay Hours” means the actual elapsed time from block-to-block or the scheduled time from block-to-block as published in the monthly bid package, whichever is greater, on all scheduled and non-scheduled flights.

Premium pay, as defined in the contract, is payment above guarantee for underblock pay. If I complete a flight in less than the scheduled time, I still get paid for the scheduled flight time. How the company chooses to reflect that on my paycheck (ie, under the premium category) is up to them.

I still stand by my statement that trading premium pay for trip/duty rigs would be a good thing that would benefit everybody, not just a select group of pilots. Note that I did not say that I would trade block or better pay for rigs.

that is EXACTLY RIGHT.

 

[atrdriver]

No, I don't benefit from premium pay. I benefit from this part of the contract (Section 2):

S. “Flight Pay Hours” means the actual elapsed time from block-to-block or the scheduled time from block-to-block as published in the monthly bid package, whichever is greater, on all scheduled and non-scheduled flights.

Premium pay, as defined in the contract, is payment above guarantee for underblock pay. If I complete a flight in less than the scheduled time, I still get paid for the scheduled flight time. How the company chooses to reflect that on my paycheck (ie, under the premium category) is up to them.

I still stand by my statement that trading premium pay for trip/duty rigs would be a good thing that would benefit everybody, not just a select group of pilots. Note that I did not say that I would trade block or better pay for rigs.

NO, it is not right. Lets say you have a line blocked to 80 hours. You fly each and every leg underblock, and end up flying only 65 hours. If all we had was underblock pay, you would receive a paycheck for 80 hours. With premium pay, as we have it, you would receive a paycheck for 85 hours, because that 10 hours of underblock is paid on top of the 75 hour guarantee, NOT above what you ended up flying. That is an additional 5 hours of pay OVER AND ABOVE what your original line was blocked, all due to premuim pay.

 

[gator_hater]

I agree with ATR, but don't we get paid fr 95 in that situation because as I understand your 75 garuntee is for the res/rel/nap guys. If you are a line holder is not your new garuntee based on your awarded line??

 

[atrdriver]

I agree with ATR, but don't we get paid fr 95 in that situation because as I understand your 75 garuntee is for the res/rel/nap guys. If you are a line holder is not your new garuntee based on your awarded line??

According to MJ the premium is still added onto the 75 hours, not the original line value.

 

[sweptback]

NO, it is not right. Lets say you have a line blocked to 80 hours. You fly each and every leg underblock, and end up flying only 65 hours. If all we had was underblock pay, you would receive a paycheck for 80 hours. With premium pay, as we have it, you would receive a paycheck for 85 hours, because that 10 hours of underblock is paid on top of the 75 hour guarantee, NOT above what you ended up flying. That is an additional 5 hours of pay OVER AND ABOVE what your original line was blocked, all due to premuim pay.

That's such a impractical example because it isn't possible to fly that much underblock for a month. I just looked at my last few paychecks and I average about 5 hours premium a month. That's with no ground delays or waiting for gates... it just goes down more in the summer with all of that.

If it was possible to fly 15 hours underblock as in your above example, then maybe premium would turn out to be a bigger deal. But if you have a line blocked at anything above 80 (which is where most if not all of our hard lines are), then you don't really benefit from premium, while it may technically be possible to do so. We would benefit more from trip and duty rigs as a group.

 

[ohplease!]

NO, it is not right. Lets say you have a line blocked to 80 hours. You fly each and every leg underblock, and end up flying only 65 hours. If all we had was underblock pay, you would receive a paycheck for 80 hours. With premium pay, as we have it, you would receive a paycheck for 85 hours, because that 10 hours of underblock is paid on top of the 75 hour guarantee, NOT above what you ended up flying. That is an additional 5 hours of pay OVER AND ABOVE what your original line was blocked, all due to premuim pay.

wrong. AND you'll NEVER get 15+hrs. underblock.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

NO, it is not right. Lets say you have a line blocked to 80 hours. You fly each and every leg underblock, and end up flying only 65 hours. If all we had was underblock pay, you would receive a paycheck for 80 hours. With premium pay, as we have it, you would receive a paycheck for 85 hours, because that 10 hours of underblock is paid on top of the 75 hour guarantee, NOT above what you ended up flying. That is an additional 5 hours of pay OVER AND ABOVE what your original line was blocked, all due to premuim pay.

Atrdriver,
This isn't correct. Underblock is only "extra money" if you are under guarantee. Essentially only the reserves and nap guys get extra money. For the rest of us, it only brings you up to block on a leg by leg basis. Sorry, but not extra money. Not a big item for me.

 

[49W]

wrong. AND you'll NEVER get 15+hrs. underblock.

There was a time on the ATR where you would average between 10-15 hours of premium a month.

 

[OCP]

Atrdriver,
This isn't correct. Underblock is only "extra money" if you are under guarantee. Essentially only the reserves and nap guys get extra money. For the rest of us, it only brings you up to block on a leg by leg basis. Sorry, but not extra money. Not a big item for me.

May not be a "big item" for you. If your profile is right then you are probably a capt holding a line. Great for you. But for the junior guy who is on reserve or flying naps its a huge deal. Under block pay is a big extra chuck on their pay checks. Classic senior guy selling out the junior guy it looks like.

 

[dash8driver64]

some of you guys are losing it here. We don't need or want "premium" in the new contract. We NEED trip/duty rigs. I don't know of any regional that does not pay block or better. (if they are out there im sure i'll hear it) As far as naps go, 2 for 1 duty hrs. Thats how you make $ doing naps. Reserve.... see trip/ duty rigs.

 

[ohplease!]

There was a time on the ATR where you would average between 10-15 hours of premium a month.

there was a time on the ATR that I averaged 20+ hrs premium. that was a long time ago (3+ yrs.). how much are you getting now??? yeah, I thought so. good try though.