ASA ALPA Proposes Hiring DAL Pilots

[N2264J]

If the RJDC wins, you will see every mainline pilot group leave and form their own union.

So what you're saying is that the mainline pilots would rather leave ALPA than be forced by the courts to treat the little guy fairly and equally as required by federal law. That kind of alarmist, fear mongering may work on butt boys like PCL_128, however, you fail to recognize that it makes our point.

The corruption here is second only to the bigotry.

Come to think of it, our union will currently not permit the Comair and ASA MECs to bargain directly with Delta management, the entity that controls all the flying, for scope: http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

Should Delta mainline leave the union, ALPA will no longer be in a position as the sole bargaining agent to prevent that or any other kind of negotiations for that matter. Is that what you want?

Personally, I think unity would be better strategy for a union.

 

[~~~^~~~]

What about that would change if we had one list at Delta? Do you think we would be able to negotiate your so called inclusive scope? What would you be willing to give up to get it?

First, thank you for recognizing that you would still have scope in an ALPA which allowed all of its members full representation.

Employees have the right to bargain collectively with their employer. All ALPA has to do is protect the rights of workers under US labor law.

This can result in a whole wide range of different outcomes. ASA, Comair and Delta could continue to operate separately with separate contracts and work rules, but with one list for the purpose of representation. In this scenario no one has given up anything, but we have resolved the war by being inclusive and bringing pilots together.

What does not work is for one group of pilots to exercise control over another group of pilots using scope language. What if the 757/767 pilots selfishly decided to push an agenda that paid them $1,000 an hour to be offset with $15 an hour wages on the MD88? In effect, that is the plan with ALPA's current scope strategy. The problem is that all the alter ego operations are bidding down the overall pilot pay structure. Bottom line is that we have to end alter ego flight operations - to restore this profession.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You guys sitting here arguing about the RJDC ad nauseum need to find a hobby.

One of our hobbies is trying to save our profession, our union and our jobs. This web board is ALPA's Federalist Papers circa 25.

Come to think of it, our union will currently not permit the Comair and ASA MECs to bargain directly with Delta management, the entity that controls all the flying, for scope: http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

Should Delta mainline leave the union, ALPA will no longer be in a position as the sole bargaining agent to prevent that or any other kind of negotiations for that matter. Is that what you want?

Personally, I think unity would be better strategy for a union.

Time to negotiate with Delta​

 

[PCL_128]

Time to negotiate with Delta

Seems to me that the time for you to start negotiating with Delta is when you actually start working for them. News Flash: you work for ASA, not Delta.

 

[FDJ2]

This lawsuit would have never been brought if the facts were not clear and if the facts did not support the desired outcome.

Oh, so you have the facts do you? Then why has it been nearly 2 years since Judge Glasser's decision and still the RJDC can not seem to bring their case forward. Hmmmmm, sounds like the RJDC hasn't quite found the facts.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Seems to me that the time for you to start negotiating with Delta is when you actually start working for them. News Flash: you work for ASA, not Delta.

News Flash: I work for Delta but I am employed by Comair. BFD.

 

[FDJ2]

You made the allegation - YOU defend it

The RJDC brought forward 10 claims against ALPA, 9 were summarily dismissed two years ago, since that time the RJDC has not brought their case forward in nearly two years. Despite your claim, Originally Posted by ~~~^~~~
This lawsuit would have never been brought if the facts were not clear and if the facts did not support the desired outcome, the RJDC just can't bring their case forward. And who's to blame them given the spanking Judge Glasser gave them in 2003 when he summarily dismissed 90% of the RJDC claims, to include all of the RJDC's claims for billions in monetary damages. Yep, that's an arse pounding, particularly when you consider how the deck is stacked against a defendant on a motion to dismiss.

"When deciding a motion to dismiss the court must take all allegations in the complaint as true and draw all reasonable inferences in favor of the plaintiffs (RJDC). A complaint should not be dismissed “unless it appears beyond doubt that the plaintiff (RJDC) can prove no set of facts in support of his claim which would entitle him to relief.” Judge Glasser

If the RJDC can only keep 10% of its case alive when the Judge has to assume that everything the RJDC claims is true and has to give them the benefit of the doubt everywhere else, that is a miserable performance. I very much doubt that the last remaining RJDC claims will survive when the assumptions are reversed.

 

[FDJ2]

News Flash: I work for Delta but I am employed by Comair. BFD.

News flash, so what. I guess I work for the public since DAL is a publicly owned company.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Then why obsess about it? If the case has no merit, why have you and your clone-in-a-previous-life Fly Delta Jets been fretting about this for years?

As for working for the public, well, I guess you'll have to go to them for your next contract which should be very soon now ...

 

[FDJ2]

Then why obsess about it? If the case has no merit, why have you and your clone-in-a-previous-life Fly Delta Jets been fretting about this for years? ...

Oh, I wouldn't call it fretting, I'd call it shooting fish in a barrel.

Are you boyz going to raise your skirts for some more new jets again at the next RFP? Enjoy your concession jets, you caved for them.

 

[FlyComAirJets]

Oh, I wouldn't call it fretting, I'd call it shooting fish in a barrel.

Are you boyz going to raise your skirts for some more new jets again at the next RFP? Enjoy your concession jets, you caved for them.

Life is just fine here on the plantation but the chickens seem to be in YOUR kitchen again.

Bottom rail on top now!


------------
The boyz

 

[~~~^~~~]

News Flash: you work for ASA, not Delta.

Do you think it will make any difference this fall? Do you think Delta's cash will even hold out that long?

 

[FlyComAirJets]

$4 million cash burn per day is not sustainable. That 'fish' in the barrel that FDJ loves to delight in shooting is his own foot.

 

[FDJ2]

$4 million cash burn per day is not sustainable. That 'fish' in the barrel that FDJ loves to delight in shooting is his own foot.

And what does that have to do with the miserable performance of the RJDC and their lawsuit?

 

[~~~^~~~]

And what does that have to do with the miserable performance of the RJDC and their lawsuit?

Well, if there is no Delta, it does seem rather pointless. Even though I am a true believer in reforming ALPA ( or returning ALPA to its membership ) it is statistically unlikely that my next job will be at an ALPA carrier.

Also, history seems to indicate that every time the senior guys at Delta feel threatened with loss of their jobs they outsource more work to the one bright spot in Delta's miserable ( from a profitability perspective ) operation.

I'm tired of repeating it - but it is simply so true - you junior Delta guys should be RJDC supporters. You have suffered the most as a result of ALPA's misguided scope policies.

 

[Launchpad]

So... we should sue ourselves then? Brilliant.

I'm tired of repeating it - but it is simply so true - you junior Delta guys should be RJDC supporters. You have suffered the most as a result of ALPA's misguided scope policies.[/QUOTE]

 

[michael707767]

Also, history seems to indicate that every time the senior guys at Delta feel threatened with loss of their jobs they outsource more work to the one bright spot in Delta's miserable ( from a profitability perspective ) operation.

Hmm, so the RJs are our bright spot? Ask yourself this. Delta has more RJs than anyone. If RJs are so great, why are our losses more than anyone elses? Could it be the RJ is not so hot? That its CASMs are far higher mainline operators like Airtran and Southwest. Why does Delta not break out performance numbers for DCI if its so great? Could they be hiding the truth till they can sell them off? Common sense tells me if the RJ was as great as you guys think, Delta would be doing better.

 

[WOXOF All Day]

Hmm, so the RJs are our bright spot? Ask yourself this. Delta has more RJs than anyone. If RJs are so great, why are our losses more than anyone elses? Could it be the RJ is not so hot? That its CASMs are far higher mainline operators like Airtran and Southwest. Why does Delta not break out performance numbers for DCI if its so great? Could they be hiding the truth till they can sell them off? Common sense tells me if the RJ was as great as you guys think, Delta would be doing better.

Forgive me but why the He!! then does DL continue to buy the RJ and put it into service....makes no sense unless, God forbid, they are actually a PROFITABLE segment for DL. Or is DL mgmt just as stupid as they look?

 

[FlyComAirJets]

So... we should sue ourselves then? Brilliant.

I'm tired of repeating it - but it is simply so true - you junior Delta guys should be RJDC supporters. You have suffered the most as a result of ALPA's misguided scope policies.

We should adhere to the intent of the C&BL's. Pure genius.