ASA ALPA phone briefing

[General Lee]

Wal-Mart door greeter?

Sounds like that could be your next job. Moving to St George?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

your next "commuter" job?

Dispatch practical test?

Assistant 2nd shift fry cook at Wendy's?

Hey, we passed our TA, which was a good one. I think you may be on the hot seat next.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[HoserASA]

I came into the conference call a few minutes late and I was on for about an hour, so I don't know what was discussed after that, but here's my take on it.
AVoiceOfReason, your voice must be very soft because I never hear it in the SLC crew room complaining.

That's what I immediately thought when reading VOR's posting. I have queried the MEC and CNC on what transpired during the call so we'll see who's exaggerating somewhat here. VOR, I suggest you call/email the MEC with your concerns. That's better than bashing them here, and making up stuff. C'mon, give those volunteers a chance willya. Volunteers! Did you get that Voice?

Hoser
In Favor

 

[FL990]

That's what I immediately thought when reading VOR's posting. I have queried the MEC and CNC on what transpired during the call so we'll see who's exaggerating somewhat here. VOR, I suggest you call/email the MEC with your concerns. That's better than bashing them here, and making up stuff. C'mon, give those volunteers a chance willya. Volunteers! Did you get that Voice?

Hoser
In Favor

VoiceofReason is Scott Hall...


He is going to twist everything...they are reaching now

 

[shamrock]

I have queried the MEC and CNC on what transpired during the call so we'll see who's exaggerating somewhat here. VOR, I suggest you call/email the MEC with your concerns. That's better than bashing them here, and making up stuff. C'mon, give those volunteers a chance willya. Volunteers!

C'mon Hoser,

You know that our MEC is spinning things to make them appear the way they want, the Company offer is more than fair, and you P2P guys aren't giving out accurate information to the rest of us.

At least that's what one CP told me!

 

[ASACAPT]

And just why do you think the Chief Pilots are going to give you the right information.........

 

[Tomct]

Ah, all of the chief pilots are considered mgmnt! Most of them just walk the line and stick their nose into "whomever's" Arse needs it at the time....CT, BL or JA! They have NO LEVERAGE for their desired paycuts. They can stick it where the sun don't shine for all I care!

As far as pilots being financially prepared...that would indicate that we make enough money to pay all our bills, buy food AND set some aside! Hence the reason for the "NO PAYCUTS" dealio! I don't care if I am prepared or NOT!!! NO WAY am I going to take a paycut while those JACK@SSES in the palace LINE THEIR POCKETS with OUR MONEY!!!

 

[www.]

C'mon Hoser,

You know that our MEC is spinning things to make them appear the way they want, the Company offer is more than fair, and you P2P guys aren't giving out accurate information to the rest of us.

At least that's what one CP told me!

If the CP was Carl, well he's just a young child that has no idea of the real world. His mgmt skills are as strong as a wet noodle.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

8 year captain trying to make a living, while looking for another job.

You may be looking for another job, but some of us aren't. Some of us like it here. I'm not going to criticize you for wanting to leave, so have some respect for those of us who like it here and want to say.

 

[ASA]

C'mon Hoser,

You know that our MEC is spinning things to make them appear the way they want, the Company offer is more than fair, and you P2P guys aren't giving out accurate information to the rest of us.

At least that's what one CP told me!

Chief Pilots at ASA are getting paid 100k+ to sit around and talk to pilots about contract negotiations? Aside from one or two of them, it seems like they have an awful lot of time on their hands. Usually they are just making small talk with pilots. The money they're making could be used for better purposes. Do you like flying all day to support these pilots' salaries?

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

I now have no doubt that this is Scott Hall!!

Ok Scott, lets talk about some of this!

1)The SLC base closure was announced well over a month ago, long before the 900's were slated to go to SLC. When mgmt discussed the base closure, there was nothing in the discussion about our pilot costs being too high to sustain the base. The discussion focused on reducing redundancies in the skywest inc system. It is strangly convenient how you guys are changing your tune and spinning the "loss" of the 900 to skywest as a "its because we are too expensive" bit. For all who are wondering, here is REALITY...the crj900's went to skywest because they are going to be based in SLC and we will no longer have a base there. Management would like you to believe that taking a cut would have saved this base closure and afforded us the right to fly the 900's...HOWEVER, skywest made the decision to close the base long before those 900's were slated to go to SLC. I have no doubt we were going to receive the 900's...IN ATL, but the reason these are going to SKYWEST is because DELTA changed there mind on the placement of the aircraft and decided to put them in SLC!!!

2)If the DOT numbers are incorrect, as you say, due to the ownership of aircraft which is paid after gross profit (which is what is reported to the DOT), then that would mean that every other carrier out there is in the same boat. Bottom line: management continues to attempt to compare apples with red painted oranges. In other words, what i am trying to say is that when you compare our gross profits to other airlines gross profits, we are the most profitable. If you compare our net profits to everyone elses gross profits, then OF COURSE WE AREN'T going to look as profitable. If you're going to do that, why don't you just compare our profits to everyone elses revenue...that would make us look really bad...oh, I see, you mean its easier to compare a red painted orange to an apple than it is to compare a red painted watermellon!!!

If you take all the other airlines that own aircraft and substract THAT from THERE gross profits as reported to the DOT then we would still be in close to the same boat i'm sure...The most profitable airline in the industry.

4)When I attended the meeting with you and TUTT, if I am not mistaken, there were several questions you guys refused to answer as well...like how in the HECK you came up with all of those SWANKY numbers you were showing to convince us we were better off taking cuts.

I have said enough.

Scott, let us vote and get this thing done. Stop taking a profitable company and making everyone believe we are a sinking ship. Stop trying to take money out of our pockets to line the pockets of uppermgmt and moral will improve around here and ASA will be a great place to work!!

FL990,
I'm a pilot here who is concerned about Jerry shifting assets to SKYW.

1) I wasn't talking about the 900s, I was talking about the 12 ASA 700s that are being transferred to SKYW. I realize not to count on future aircraft until they show up on the ramp. But the fact is 12 700s are being transferred from ASA to SKYW. Then the union tells me during the conference call "not to worry, because it is only a threat". Something tells me that some of these guys will keep saying that right up to the last one leaving the property.

2) ALPA said they are inaccurate as well. Neither management nor ALPA can produce the exact numbers.

4) I don't know what numbers you are talking about because I wasn't at the company meeting. However I understand not talking about confidential numbers - both sides have those. That's fine. What I couldn't believe was ALPA couldn't answer a simple, non-confidential question about strike benefits. Shouldn't the MEC have been prepared to answer a question about strike benefits since the whole point of the conference call was to discuss questions about negotiations and the strike ballot? Doesn't exactly give people confidence in allowing these people to have the authority to make such a serious decision.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Voice-

I suggest you call Dave N. and talk to him personally about your concerns. My experience with him is that he is a rational, level-headed guy that will listen to your concerns. However, yours is only one voice of 1800. You need to keep that in mind when discussing these issues. I read your post and see a lot of frustration. It is your right to voice that frustration as long as you pay your dues.

I have talked to my reps. and that is why I am so sceptical now. Several months back, I voiced my concern to one of my reps. I was of the belief that we shouldn't ask for too much in terms of money, and should instead focus on scheduling QOL issues. He agreed, and looked me in the eye and said that is what we are doing, but management won't even address our QOL issues. He said we weren't asking for much money and that we understood the industry pressures that were on us. Then the scheduling section gets done, and come to find out we were and are asking for lots of money. I don't want to accuse someone of lying, but doesn't that sound dishonest. That destroyed ALPA's credibility for me.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Were these "ALPA" people from ALPA National or members of the ASA MEC Administration?

I think they were all ASA MEC, but there was an ALPA national attorney.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

VOR, I suggest you call/email the MEC with your concerns. That's better than bashing them here, and making up stuff. C'mon, give those volunteers a chance willya. Volunteers! Did you get that Voice?

Hoser
In Favor

I have talked to my reps. They told me several months back that all we really wanted were QOL improvements and that we didn't expect much money. Now it seems that wasn't exactly the truth. I don't trust them anymore. As far as them being "volunteers", I thought they are all on full time leave. Some of them probably make more than I do now. That isn't a volunteer - that is an employee and as a dues paying member, that makes me the boss.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I have talked to my reps. They told me several months back that all we really wanted were QOL improvements and that we didn't expect much money. Now it seems that wasn't exactly the truth. I don't trust them anymore. As far as them being "volunteers", I thought they are all on full time leave. Some of them probably make more than I do now. That isn't a volunteer - that is an employee and as a dues paying member, that makes me the boss.

I did the conference calls as well and it was not the MEC who you were talking to in the conference calls it was the CNC. Maybe they don't know all the particulars about strike benifits, I don't remember them and I was an hour from going on strike at TSA in 2000. At least know who you are talking about.

The believe all the MEC members and CNC members are on leave but all the other reps LEC(Capt, FO, P2P reps etc) are volunteer and do it on their own time. If they make more than you than it's cause they can hold a better paying line than you. That doesn't make you the boss, it makes you one of 1500 or so dues paying members that disagrees with most. The MEC and CNC still know where the majority of the pilots stand on the min they would accept for pay and the last proposal has lots of room left till that. If the company would have ever negotiated then they probably gotten there, but they stopped with their one and only proposal and walked away.

The CNC was there twiddling their thumbs waiting to negotiate with the company and they quit not the CNC.

 

[shamrock]

If the CP was Carl, well he's just a young child that has no idea of the real world. His mgmt skills are as strong as a wet noodle.

No, it was the other junior CP, one door over from CC.

 

[ASARJMan]

No, it was the other junior CP, one door over from CC.

The female one, or the ALPA turncoat one between carl & the female?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[shamrock]

The female one, or the ALPA turncoat one between carl & the female?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

The CP formerly known as ALPA.

 

[ASARJMan]

The CP formerly known as ALPA.[/quote

..the one that took a couple of CPs to a, uh, man's bar in midtown?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[shamrock]

Well I hadn't heard about the bar thing, but that's the one.

 

[Bizjet]

Well I hadn't heard about the bar thing, but that's the one.

The CP's agreed that his choice of bars sucked.

 

[Willy21]

I got a question for Mr Hall. When you come out to SLC this time are you going to be so hung over that you can't stay the full time you say you will? I guess pizza doesn't cure that blitzing headache does it? Are you and your underlings going to go and live it up with the SLC Chief pilots again? Last time you were out there there were a lot of people that knew what you did the night before. Is that why king tutt has been sent the last few times? Little Scotty can't behave on a road trip. I guess we will find out Tuesday night. This time you have your master with you.

 

[ASARJMan]

The CP's agreed that his choice of bars sucked.

The bars did, or...........

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[JoeMerchant]

In fairness, a lot has been cut out of the GO Management Staff. How many Vice Presidents do we have now? Think about how many we had a year ago. Many folks did take pay cuts to match their Skywest peer group and we have lost some good people - it has not been a painless transition.

LaBreque and a few others' stars rose with the transition. He is now an "Major Airline President" and while we probably agree on the lousy timing of his stock bonus - that is the sort of reward that being selected for that job gets you.

I voted for a strike authorization, but it smart to remain balanced about this. Jerry Atkin is in a much stronger position than we are, he knows it, and no amount of bravado is going to do anything to convince him otherwise.

ALPA has a good economic analysis department (when they use it). I would rather have a realistic market based approach to our negotiations and a recognition that we are in a lousy negotiating position as a result of ALPA's total failure to provide any scope or job protection to members at the small jet level. (Of course ALPA cannot admit this failure in public and like most lies, the snowball effect has taken on a life of its own)

In my view we will pay the price for ALPA's scope failure. It can not be avoided. The sooner we recognize the reality of the situation and deal with it, the better.

Ironically, ALPA is still be best place to seek help for this problem. ALPA has the tools if it has the political will to use them. We need to be real with our own representatives. We should not get into a bulleffluvia loop where uninformed opinions get amplified by ALPA's representatives and fed back to the line pilots as truth.

When the Delta MEC got caught lying, they blamed their pilots and said they were only representing. We need to keep that to a minimum around here.

Good points Fins. I participated in today's call and was very dissapointed in the scope responses. The answers I got did not give me confidence in our ability to stop Jerry from transferring assets. Our ALPA contract administrator even admitted that "legal council" was influencing our scope approach. That doesn't bode well for us. Keep up the good fight, but I am even more discouraged than I was before the call. I got the impression that some of our people saw the problem, but are afraid to stand up to Herndon - that is a shame.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That material was sent out a week or two ago.

Freebrd, that conflicts with what DP said on today's conference call. DP said it hadn't been sent out yet because "it would be premature to send it out before the vote came back". That is absurd. If ALPA is asking people to vote to end there jobs, the least that can be done is to inform them of all the ramifications, including benefits. The lack of information with this strike vote is totally unacceptable.

 

[sweptback]

Freebrd, that conflicts with what DP said on today's conference call. DP said it hadn't been sent out yet because "it would be premature to send it out before the vote came back". That is absurd. If ALPA is asking people to vote to end there jobs, the least that can be done is to inform them of all the ramifications, including benefits. The lack of information with this strike vote is totally unacceptable.

I really don't think anybody is going to make up their mind over an issue as important as a strike vote over a measly $1400/mo in strike benefits. It's not like over the last 2 years or so people didn't see this coming and haven't had time to make plans. As always, you're just spinning minor things into something that will further your agenda.

Also, I'm not quite sure how voting no on the strike vote prevents assets from being transferred to SkyWest, but please try to explain that one to me John.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I really don't think anybody is going to make up their mind over an issue as important as a strike vote over a measly $1400/mo in strike benefits. It's not like over the last 2 years or so people didn't see this coming and haven't had time to make plans. As always, you're just spinning minor things into something that will further your agenda.

What exactly do you think my "agenda" is? As far as strike benefits, I think everything should be layed out for the pilot group when you ask them for the authority to strike. You should tell them exactly what we are asking for, how that compares to our competition, how much that will cost, and what the ramifications could be and what the strike benefits are. I really don't think that is too much to ask of the membership when asking for their approval on a strike authorization. The more information, the better the decision making process, unless of course you are trying to move the decision in a certain direction.

Also, I'm not quite sure how voting no on the strike vote prevents assets from being transferred to SkyWest, but please try to explain that one to me John.

OK I'll explain it to you. There isn't going to be a strike right now regardless of how the vote turns out. The NMB isn't going to release us because an ASA strike right now would probably kill Delta and politically that isn't a good thing. A strong vote will tell the ASA MEC and CNC that they are proceding in the right direction. Therefor we will continue to demand what we are asking for, the NMB will continue to leave us in recess, and Jerry will continue to shift assets away from ASA. This will go on indefinately.

 

[atrdriver]

so have some respect for those of us who like it here and want to say.

I do. That's why I want to leave a better contract than the one that I have now.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I do. That's why I want to leave a better contract than the one that I have now.

ATRdriver, what will a better contract do us if we lose our flying to SKYW? A better contract does no good if you lose the flying.

 

[gcaflyer]

Freebrd, that conflicts with what DP said on today's conference call. DP said it hadn't been sent out yet because "it would be premature to send it out before the vote came back". That is absurd. If ALPA is asking people to vote to end there jobs, the least that can be done is to inform them of all the ramifications, including benefits. The lack of information with this strike vote is totally unacceptable.

Not sure what DP was referring to but I think it was in the last SPC newsletter. Info/ideas on financial preperation, etc.