ASA ALPA phone briefing

[AVoiceOfReason]

Here are my notes from last nights ALPA conference call. It seemed more like a pep rally rather than information.

1. ALPA seems to think that moving airplanes to SKYW is just a bluff and that they won't really do it. Tell that to those of us in SLC.

2. ALPA admitted that the DOT numbers regarding 70 seat costs are inaccurate. When asked what the real numbers are, they said they didn't know. How can ALPA not know what the real numbers are?

3. Actually laughed at 2 peoples questions - very tacky.

4. Weren't able to answer questions about what our strike benefits will be. Don't you think they would have the answer for that by now? Not only should they have been able to answer that question, it should have been mailed to us with the strike ballot.

5. Those pilots who had concerns were cut off fast.

6. One pilot made a comment that many ASA pilots aren't financially prepared for a strike. ALPA people said that isn't their concern.

7. ALPA person kept repeating over and over that we aren't voting to strike, just voting to give ALPA authorization to strike. The problem with that is, we won't get another chance to have a say in it, so this needs to be treated as though it will come to a strike.


I was not impressed.

 

[AsaLossPaywAlpa]

vote yes

 

[Smacktard]

vote NO
When asked the little Fergassi food,
what are we striking for "what ever you want"
what kind of response is that..

That makes complete sense, roll over now before we can even utilize all the 'tools' we can use in negotiations. And you're a captain?

 

[www.]

2. ALPA admitted that the DOT numbers regarding 70 seat costs are inaccurate. When asked what the real numbers are, they said they didn't know. How can ALPA not know what the real numbers are?

3. I was not impressed.

2. If the DOT #s are not correct, that means that ASA/Skwest Inc provided false info to the FEDS. As stated by Tutt in his meeting, they cannot provided this type of info to the pilots.

3. We are not impressed with you either.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Whatever you think about the union, keep one thing in mind. Whatever they negotiate they have to live with it for the next 8 years, (4yr contract + 3-4 yrs to negotiate a new one). BL and Ct are in a different boat, they couldn't care less about us, because all they care about is their bonuses which I am sure they will be a byproduct of our contract. Decent pilot contract = smaller bonus, crappy contract = bigger bonus.

Remember, mgt doesn't care about ASA, they just hope to break a strong union so they can get to their next job with a bigger pay check.
If mgt is fully committed to the success of ASA, why don't they take a 13% paycut out of their compensation package, and freeze their pay untill we sign our next contract? Oh that's right, they are at ASA to make money not to give it back. I wonder why the pilots feel the same way.

Plain and simple when every mgt person takes a 13% paycut and freeze their pay, then and only then, they can come to us and ask us for a paycut, untill that day MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME. After all, they are negotiating on my behalf as well as their own.

I voted YES to authorize my union to call for a strike if the company forces us to do so. I didn't attend any dog and pony shows for one simple reason. I DO NOT BELIEVE ASA PILOTS NEED TO TAKE A PAYCUT.

Everyone is free to vote in favor or against it, just keep one thing in mind. Voting in favor of a strike means you think the pilots deserve a raise. Voting against a strike, you think BL, CT, SH, etc... deserve a raise.

I personally believe I can use a 10% raise = 6.500$ more than BL can use a 10%= 150.000$.

The fact of the matter is, somebody is getting a raise out of this contract. Management or the pilots. The choice is yours.


8 year captain trying to make a living, while looking for another job.

 

[FL990]

1. ALPA seems to think that moving airplanes to SKYW is just a bluff and that they won't really do it. Tell that to those of us in SLC.

2. ALPA admitted that the DOT numbers regarding 70 seat costs are inaccurate. When asked what the real numbers are, they said they didn't know. How can ALPA not know what the real numbers are?

4. Weren't able to answer questions about what our strike benefits will be. Don't you think they would have the answer for that by now? Not only should they have been able to answer that question, it should have been mailed to us with the strike ballot.

I now have no doubt that this is Scott Hall!!

Ok Scott, lets talk about some of this!

1)The SLC base closure was announced well over a month ago, long before the 900's were slated to go to SLC. When mgmt discussed the base closure, there was nothing in the discussion about our pilot costs being too high to sustain the base. The discussion focused on reducing redundancies in the skywest inc system. It is strangly convenient how you guys are changing your tune and spinning the "loss" of the 900 to skywest as a "its because we are too expensive" bit. For all who are wondering, here is REALITY...the crj900's went to skywest because they are going to be based in SLC and we will no longer have a base there. Management would like you to believe that taking a cut would have saved this base closure and afforded us the right to fly the 900's...HOWEVER, skywest made the decision to close the base long before those 900's were slated to go to SLC. I have no doubt we were going to receive the 900's...IN ATL, but the reason these are going to SKYWEST is because DELTA changed there mind on the placement of the aircraft and decided to put them in SLC!!!

2)If the DOT numbers are incorrect, as you say, due to the ownership of aircraft which is paid after gross profit (which is what is reported to the DOT), then that would mean that every other carrier out there is in the same boat. Bottom line: management continues to attempt to compare apples with red painted oranges. In other words, what i am trying to say is that when you compare our gross profits to other airlines gross profits, we are the most profitable. If you compare our net profits to everyone elses gross profits, then OF COURSE WE AREN'T going to look as profitable. If you're going to do that, why don't you just compare our profits to everyone elses revenue...that would make us look really bad...oh, I see, you mean its easier to compare a red painted orange to an apple than it is to compare a red painted watermellon!!!

If you take all the other airlines that own aircraft and substract THAT from THERE gross profits as reported to the DOT then we would still be in close to the same boat i'm sure...The most profitable airline in the industry.

4)When I attended the meeting with you and TUTT, if I am not mistaken, there were several questions you guys refused to answer as well...like how in the HECK you came up with all of those SWANKY numbers you were showing to convince us we were better off taking cuts.

I have said enough.

Scott, let us vote and get this thing done. Stop taking a profitable company and making everyone believe we are a sinking ship. Stop trying to take money out of our pockets to line the pockets of uppermgmt and moral will improve around here and ASA will be a great place to work!!

 

[ASARJMan]

Here are my notes from last nights ALPA conference call. It seemed more like a pep rally rather than information.
4. Weren't able to answer questions about what our strike benefits will be. Don't you think they would have the answer for that by now? Not only should they have been able to answer that question, it should have been mailed to us with the strike ballot.

ok, can anyone out there verify that this was discussed, or is vor just scotty making shet up again.

5. Those pilots who had concerns were cut off fast.

yeah, sure they were. again, anyone verify this too?

6. One pilot made a comment that many ASA pilots aren't financially prepared for a strike. ALPA people said that isn't their concern.

pilots should be prepared on their own, but I doubt they stated "not our concern", just trying to scare pilots there aren't ya Scotty boy


7. ALPA person kept repeating over and over that we aren't voting to strike, just voting to give ALPA authorization to strike. The problem with that is, we won't get another chance to have a say in it, so this needs to be treated as though it will come to a strike.

very true, and pilots should or do realize that when they vote. of course Scotty, or if you're actually a pilot, you can always cross the line if we do walk out.


I was not impressed.

guess not Scotty, and we're not impressed with you, never have been, and you know what? we aren't impressed with CT's ridulous letters and him using his name 'charlie' like we're old pals (meetings w/ charlie,etc), BL's getting stock options, and no one else in this company being asked for cuts.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Voice-

I suggest you call Dave N. and talk to him personally about your concerns. My experience with him is that he is a rational, level-headed guy that will listen to your concerns. However, yours is only one voice of 1800. You need to keep that in mind when discussing these issues. I read your post and see a lot of frustration. It is your right to voice that frustration as long as you pay your dues.

 

[MECH]

ALPA strike benefits are 1400.00/ month. They start 30 days after the strike begins and are automaticly approved, only for the first month. After the first month the other ALPA carriers vote to continue the payments(in the past they have always vote to continue paying).

Remember you will lose your health benefits on the first day of the strike. So you will have to find health benefits else where. For a family on the open market these will cost you 400.00 and up. Cobra payments average 600.00 and up.

The bottom line is that pilots being financially prepared is a hugh concern for any SPC committee. The ASA SPC committee should be sending out material that shows pilots different ways to prepare from home line of credit to personal loans. Becuase on day one of a strike it will be to late for all these options.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

jetjockey-

If mgmt took a paycut that matched ours I culdn't care less. 13% of six figures is not as difficult to swallow as 13% of FO pay! After all, a gallon of milk costs the same for both.

Bottom line is that we are profitable and there is no need to take a cut. We should be given a reasonable raise. I say reasonable intentionally to show that I recognize the importance of not pricing ourselves out of the market ala DAL PWA2000.

 

[atlcrashpad]

This message is hidden because AVoiceOfReason is on your ignore list

You is on da list now Scotty.

 

[~~~^~~~]

... and no one else in this company being asked for cuts.

In fairness, a lot has been cut out of the GO Management Staff. How many Vice Presidents do we have now? Think about how many we had a year ago. Many folks did take pay cuts to match their Skywest peer group and we have lost some good people - it has not been a painless transition.

LaBreque and a few others' stars rose with the transition. He is now an "Major Airline President" and while we probably agree on the lousy timing of his stock bonus - that is the sort of reward that being selected for that job gets you.

I voted for a strike authorization, but it smart to remain balanced about this. Jerry Atkin is in a much stronger position than we are, he knows it, and no amount of bravado is going to do anything to convince him otherwise.

ALPA has a good economic analysis department (when they use it). I would rather have a realistic market based approach to our negotiations and a recognition that we are in a lousy negotiating position as a result of ALPA's total failure to provide any scope or job protection to members at the small jet level. (Of course ALPA cannot admit this failure in public and like most lies, the snowball effect has taken on a life of its own)

In my view we will pay the price for ALPA's scope failure. It can not be avoided. The sooner we recognize the reality of the situation and deal with it, the better.

Ironically, ALPA is still be best place to seek help for this problem. ALPA has the tools if it has the political will to use them. We need to be real with our own representatives. We should not get into a bulleffluvia loop where uninformed opinions get amplified by ALPA's representatives and fed back to the line pilots as truth.

When the Delta MEC got caught lying, they blamed their pilots and said they were only representing. We need to keep that to a minimum around here.

 

[General Lee]

In fairness, a lot has been cut out of the GO Management Staff. How many Vice Presidents do we have now? Think about how many we had a year ago. Many folks did take pay cuts to match their Skywest peer group and we have lost some good people - it has not been a painless transition.

LaBreque and a few others' stars rose with the transition. He is now an "Major Airline President" and while we probably agree on the lousy timing of his stock bonus - that is the sort of reward that being selected for that job gets you.

I voted for a strike authorization, but it smart to remain balanced about this. Jerry Atkin is in a much stronger position than we are, he knows it, and no amount of bravado is going to do anything to convince him otherwise.

ALPA has a good economic analysis department (when they use it). I would rather have a realistic market based approach to our negotiations and a recognition that we are in a lousy negotiating position as a result of ALPA's total failure to provide any scope or job protection to members at the small jet level. (Of course ALPA cannot admit this failure in public and like most lies, the snowball effect has taken on a life of its own)

In my view we will pay the price for ALPA's scope failure. It can not be avoided. The sooner we recognize the reality of the situation and deal with it, the better.

Ironically, ALPA is still be best place to seek help for this problem. ALPA has the tools if it has the political will to use them. We need to be real with our own representatives. We should not get into a bulleffluvia loop where uninformed opinions get amplified by ALPA's representatives and fed back to the line pilots as truth.

When the Delta MEC got caught lying, they blamed their pilots and said they were only representing. We need to keep that to a minimum around here.

Along with using the RJDC to try to win scope, you all went for higher pay and forgot about scope in normal section 6 talks way back when. You and Comair were the only players, you thought. Now it is coming back to haunt you. Just blame it on ALPA, the normal scapegoat. You voted in your last contract, you could have included some scope.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

In fairness, a lot has been cut out of the GO Management Staff. How many Vice Presidents do we have now? Think about how many we had a year ago. Many folks did take pay cuts to match their Skywest peer group and we have lost some good people - it has not been a painless transition.quote]

About time they cut those VPs of everything imaginable. After G&J sold to DAL, it seemed all the 'retired' folks fron DAL came over to ASA and began their destruction of another airline. Hell, even BL & CT are retired DAL employees. Look at the number of our pilots in mgt positions. Hell, cut them and make 'em fly the line. Good people? Like Skippy & Thibdoodoo? Give me a break. That place needed, and still does, cleaned out.

 

[Freebrd]

The bottom line is that pilots being financially prepared is a hugh concern for any SPC committee. The ASA SPC committee should be sending out material that shows pilots different ways to prepare from home line of credit to personal loans. Becuase on day one of a strike it will be to late for all these options.

That material was sent out a week or two ago.

 

[ASARJMan]

That place needed, and still does, cleaned out.

Hear hear! VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASARJMan]

Bye Bye--General Lee

He's baaaaccccccckkkkkkkkkkkk! Where ya been GL? VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[homerjdispatch]

He's baaaaccccccckkkkkkkkkkkk! Where ya been GL? VOTED IN FAVOR!

genital lee has been picking up open time so he can make up the money he lost in the last round of concessions..... Robbing peter (fuloughs) to pay Paul (himself)!

 

[General Lee]

He's baaaaccccccckkkkkkkkkkkk! Where ya been GL? VOTED IN FAVOR!

Absolutely, it was the best offer and good for us overall. How are you guys doin?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

genital lee has been picking up open time so he can make up the money he lost in the last round of concessions..... Robbing peter (fuloughs) to pay Paul (himself)!

I have been flying a lot as of late. And, I've been studying. Can't tell you for what....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[thebest]

down With Alpa!!!!!!!

Thebest

 

[asapilot]

Not quite what I heard

I came into the conference call a few minutes late and I was on for about an hour, so I don't know what was discussed after that, but here's my take on it.

1. ALPA seems to think that moving airplanes to SKYW is just a bluff and that they won't really do it. Tell that to those of us in SLC.

I'm in SLC and I haven't yet heard anyone blaming ALPA for the base closure. As far as the bluff goes, it was referenced in the context of the 900s which were were going to get and now are not, which most sane people see as a bluff anyway.

2. ALPA admitted that the DOT numbers regarding 70 seat costs are inaccurate. When asked what the real numbers are, they said they didn't know. How can ALPA not know what the real numbers are?

They did not say they didn't know what the real numbers are. They stated that there are items which neither party can quantify because of the confidentiality agreement that was signed between the company, the MEC, and Delta. Further, they stated that the MEC proposal is based on these numbers, analyzed by ALPA Financial Planning. The proposal looks at the total cost of the package, not just a crew cost in relation to the current costs.

3. Actually laughed at 2 peoples questions - very tacky.

In fairness to Voice, they did chuckle a few times which I felt was perhaps not the best thing to do. I'm sure it was just in jest, but a conference call where no one can be seen isn't the best forum for subtle humor.

4. Weren't able to answer questions about what our strike benefits will be. Don't you think they would have the answer for that by now? Not only should they have been able to answer that question, it should have been mailed to us with the strike ballot.

5. Those pilots who had concerns were cut off fast.

I didn't hear the question of strike benefits during my time on the call. I didn't hear anyone cut off.

6. One pilot made a comment that many ASA pilots aren't financially prepared for a strike. ALPA people said that isn't their concern.

It isn't ALPA's concern. They're not your financial planner. I can't believe you're even making an issue of this. I'm not financially prepared for a strike, but I'm not going to bend over just because I'm not sure how to make up the difference if the time comes. If you want your hand held, get a financial planner now to get your house in order.

In short, you seem like an intelligent person with most of your responses, but you also seem to be quite content to just take what you're given instead of fighting for what you deserve. AVoiceOfReason, your voice must be very soft because I never hear it in the SLC crew room complaining.

 

[Smacktard]

I have been flying a lot as of late. And, I've been studying. Can't tell you for what....


Bye Bye--General Lee

73 type for a Southwest interview?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Along with using the RJDC to try to win scope, you all went for higher pay and forgot about scope in normal section 6 talks way back when. You and Comair were the only players, you thought. Now it is coming back to haunt you. Just blame it on ALPA, the normal scapegoat. You voted in your last contract, you could have included some scope.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee - no the truth is that we asked for scope binding the parent company - Delta. Delta management said they would talk to our MEC. ALPA National then stepped in and said that ALPA National was the representative and stopped the effort to secure small jet scope.

We then warned ALPA, our MEC's and LEC's that the inability to secure small jet flying would result in a free for all for the bargaining left over by mainline negotiations.

Then Comair (in my opinion) went the wrong way and tried to secure scope through pay concessions and fleet guarantees. But pilots don't buy airplanes. ASA is trying to go the right way by getting solid contractual language and they are holding the line as best they can on pay rates.

That is exactly where we are at, right where we said we would be.

ALPA now has another opportunity to begin fixing this mess by securing Skywest (at least the Delta pilots don't have an objection - so politically we should be OK) However, there are some in ALPA that feel small jet carriers should not be able to bind holding companies - their opinions scare me because if we fail to secure Skywest we will have again lost an impotant opportunity to restore this profession.

We have two members of our CNC that understand this.

My caution to the CNC (which I'm sure they already know) is that ALPA has left us in a position where we are going to have to bargain to get scope. We should not have to bargain to secure the flying we have performed for years, but none the less - ALPA, by withholding their representation, has really damaged our negotiating position.

You and your friends at Delta had a whole lot to do with this.

~~~^~~~

 

[FDJ2]

Here are my notes from last nights ALPA conference call. It seemed more like a pep rally rather than information.

1. ALPA seems to think that moving airplanes to SKYW is just a bluff and that they won't really do it. Tell that to those of us in SLC.

2. ALPA admitted that the DOT numbers regarding 70 seat costs are inaccurate. When asked what the real numbers are, they said they didn't know. How can ALPA not know what the real numbers are?

3. Actually laughed at 2 peoples questions - very tacky.

4. Weren't able to answer questions about what our strike benefits will be. Don't you think they would have the answer for that by now? Not only should they have been able to answer that question, it should have been mailed to us with the strike ballot.

5. Those pilots who had concerns were cut off fast.

6. One pilot made a comment that many ASA pilots aren't financially prepared for a strike. ALPA people said that isn't their concern.

7. ALPA person kept repeating over and over that we aren't voting to strike, just voting to give ALPA authorization to strike. The problem with that is, we won't get another chance to have a say in it, so this needs to be treated as though it will come to a strike.


I was not impressed.

Were these "ALPA" people from ALPA National or members of the ASA MEC Administration?

 

["GO AROUND"]

IMHO,

Brian, Charlie, and Scott have failed miserably in convincing or selling the ASA pilot group that a paycut is needed. They have done very little in providing the information needed to show the reason for a cut and have done even less to dispute the information that is being put out saying otherwise. If there was real concern for the future of ASA because of the high cost of the 70 and IP's then they aren't fully disclosing all the information they have to the pilot group. They have some nice graphs and charts and spreadsheets showing the high cost per hr of ASA flight crew costs, but couldn't or wouldn't explain, break down or otherwise the costs they say are so high.

Furthermore, they know the level of distrust the pilot group has with managment and they seem to have forgotten how much harder that is going to make it. If it was really necessary they would find a way to get us all the facts.

I don't believe them for this very reason.

 

[homerjdispatch]

???

I have been flying a lot as of late. And, I've been studying. Can't tell you for what....


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wal-Mart door greeter?

 

[propsarebest]

I have been flying a lot as of late. And, I've been studying. Can't tell you for what....


Bye Bye--General Lee

your next "commuter" job?

Dispatch practical test?

Assistant 2nd shift fry cook at Wendy's?

 

[wms]

I can't believe Fins, GL and the usual suspects have taken this thread in the usual direction. Of course it's better than the original topic!

 

[www.]

Absolutely, it was the best offer and good for us overall. How are you guys doin?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Just wait until Jerry comes again at you for more than 200 70+ seaters.