Arrrrg, 260 nm with the flaps jammed 15degrees down...

[Typhoon1244]

That's a LOAD off of my mind.

Heh-heh, heh-heh. He said "load..."

 

[Wang Chung]

Uh, sorry I'm late. Can somebody please tell us a little more about what exactly this guy did in his original post, and what type of plane was he flying?

Stupid me, I didn't look at this thread until it reached 3+ pages (the circling buzzards caught my attention).

 

[avbug]

Weather the weather be cold, or weather the weather be hot, the weather's the weather, whateverthe weather, weather you like it or not. Edit at your liesure.

Scorch, cancer or not, there is NEVER a reason that a flight MUST be made. I've flown terminal patients more than a few times. I've been critically injured in the side of a cliff, and had air transport, which I needed, turn away due to the high winds. I've turned back during a heart harvest, refusing to complete the trip and retrieve the heart, due to weather, and have done so without a regret; I made a safety of flight decision.



There is no flight which must be made. I flew on an entire town that was on fire, once. I've been called numerous times to drop on locations where ground crews are going to be burned over if they don't get the drop. I've flown critical patients, infants, and had an individual in my right seat collapse with a heart attack. There has never been a flight that I had to make. Some were more pressing than others. I certainly wouldn't suggest or agree that a flight to go see your doctor made it imperative to be there. Furthermore, that's rather irrelevant, isn't it?

multimeters do indeed show conductivity, which, conclusively showed that the flap motor was not allowing current.

Which function on the multimeter is it that shows "conductivity," exactly? Would that be the ohmmeter function, showing resistance? Are you talking about a continuity check? As this was a test performed under the supervision of your nonexistant former A&P (the one who wasn't on the field at the time), we'll have to give you the benifit of doubt on that. So, you performed a "conductivity" test, did you? And you question my credibility???? Eeegads.

Once said tasks were completed, the fuse was then pulled, aka, "running cold" (this is quite a common term among A&P's, hence I question your validity here).

Any other mechanics heard this common term? Anybody? See it in any textbooks? See it bantied about in the shop a lot do you? Never heard it. As a floor walker in a repair station. Not as an inspector in that repair station. Not as director of maintenance for two different operations. Perhaps I don't hang around enough former mechanics who don't exist at remote airfields, while they're conducting "conductivity" checks with "voltometers," though.

Thread has been deleted due to horrid elitism and lack of discretion. Please tell said parties that I have extensive experience in bush flying where logic, innovative measures, and intellect are the survival catalysts, not legalities.

Well I guess that explains everything, doesn't it. Intellect? Good grief. A master of survival? So your explaination, your excuse, is that you're safe because of your great intellect, and that you're not interest in being legal, is that it? Was your use of the "conductive voltometer" a measure of intellect, or merely being innovative, if not legal? What did your former A&P have to say about this? I'm sure he was helpful, and not horridly elitist. Probably just being logical.

Where again did logic find it's way into your repair?

 

[Denizen]

running cold, running cold...hmmm... Yeah the water in my F'inn house is running cold...stupid midwest wheather...weather...whether....sheesh...where is my dictionary....ohh I see it now,under my logbook and a bottle of nice table wine.

 

[FL000]

I'd bet on Closing the thread over Deleting it - - and I'll go with OVER.

Awww shoot! I thought the originator could delete the whole thing by deleting the first post, in which case I would have won.

 

[TonyC]

Awww shoot! I thought the originator could delete the whole thing by deleting the first post, in which case I would have won.

Nope. That feature was removed as part of the User Responsibility Act of 2004. The original language which allowed editing only up to several minutes after posting was later amended to allow editing up to 48 hours (I think) after the post.

Never fear, you're still in the game!

 

[minitour]

Over/under on posts before thread deletion?

Seeing as how it's Sunday night, and I haven't seen IF4F lurking, I'll give it 45 posts, not including mine. So, over or under?

Scorch...now there's an appropriate user name.

Most definitely over...

I am quite enjoying it too...please, continue.

-mini

 

[GravityHater]

"The concorde's tail falls off...over 40 times."

I guess I missed this tale ... anyone have a link to some info on it?
Thanks

 

[FN FAL]

Heh-heh, heh-heh. He said "load..."

Yes! Every thing I say is an entendre! Ask me about how I got away with telling the Human Resources mananger at the last place I worked at that she had a nice "rack"!

Maint had just finished painting the office and putting in new carpet...she was in the process of moving back in and was carrying some stuff and her "in basket" was in her hands. Think about it. Always working the angles...maybe I should learn how to be an attorney?

She has a nice rack, by the way!

 

[350DRIVER]

av,

don't open him up too much, he is a father to a few.

3 5 0

 

[PropsForward]

There is no flight which must be made.

Even if the nukes are inbound???

 

[PropsForward]

Uh, sorry I'm late. Can somebody please tell us a little more about what exactly this guy did in his original post, and what type of plane was he flying?

Stupid me, I didn't look at this thread until it reached 3+ pages (the circling buzzards caught my attention).

Something about flying with 15° flaps because the CB kept poping. I personally would have got an A&P to just install a 15 amp CB to fix it once and for all!

 

[Ollie]

... and here's number 42. Come on avbug, tell us all what you really think...

 

[PropsForward]

He never did get around to mentioning 91.13 Careless and reckless operation.

 

[dash8driver]

doesnt this come under the avbuglogic(tm) for not declaring an emergency unless his wings fall off?

as i recall.. the logic was that in most situations declaring isnt going to get you on the ground safely, it just amounts to talking on the radio. you telling everyone on the radio doesnt really do anything to help your situation (ie. if you have an engine failure, delaring doesnt make the engine magically start up. in a fire, it doesnt make the fire go out, etc). so he wont declare because it wont really affect the outcome of the flight.

well, if a ferry permit is all you need to fly the plane with the flaps out. how does that paper make your plane suddenly be able to fly? it doesnt really affect the ability of the plane to fly. you'd think that it wouldnt be required by the avbuglogic(tm) rules of efficiency.

now i dont support doing things outside of the regs or proper judgement. i agree that he should have waited til things were done correctly. however, he is a big boy and made a decision to fly a plane that is flyable, just not on paper. thats up to him to sacrafice his certificates on the altar of bureaucracy, i wouldnt have. i am just suprised at the position being taken by our resident elite pilot.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

"Arrrrrg, 260 nm with the flaps jammed 15degrees down......." .....and that was just the beginning.........then I got home and tried to get some help on my favorite forum and promptly fell victim to a good ol' fashioned "traveshamockery"! ....and to top it all off I left my Uber Man suit in my other flight bag!

Scorch...now there's an appropriate user name.

..you gotta admit, it is a bit ironic! I think I'm going to have mine changed to flambe' or kindling. That oughta' make it easier to get into fights....

ouch!.....DANG!.........unpopped kernels.

 

[A Squared]

"conductivity"

welllllll, not to stir the pot or anything, but.....

There is such a thing as conductivity. It is the reciprocal of resistivity, and the resistance of a conductor is equal the to the resistivity coefficient times the length divided by the cross sectional area.....sooo, with a voltmeter which also incorporated a ohmmeter you could measure resistance which in a very indirect way is measuring conductivity.....but I'm not sure that this is what Scorch meant.

 

[wingnutt]

wow, and here i thought this one was dead at post #26

 

[freightdogfred]

Weather the weather be cold, or weather the weather be hot, the weather's the weather, whateverthe weather, weather you like it or not. Edit at your liesure.

Scorch, cancer or not, there is NEVER a reason that a flight MUST be made. I've flown terminal patients more than a few times. I've been critically injured in the side of a cliff, and had air transport, which I needed, turn away due to the high winds. I've turned back during a heart harvest, refusing to complete the trip and retrieve the heart, due to weather, and have done so without a regret; I made a safety of flight decision.

Well, I slept at a holiday Inn Express last night...

There is no flight which must be made. I flew on an entire town that was on fire, once. I've been called numerous times to drop on locations where ground crews are going to be burned over if they don't get the drop. I've flown critical patients, infants, and had an individual in my right seat collapse with a heart attack. There has never been a flight that I had to make. Some were more pressing than others. I certainly wouldn't suggest or agree that a flight to go see your doctor made it imperative to be there. Furthermore, that's rather irrelevant, isn't it?

Your experience and daring-do is not questioned.(apologies, Tony C...is it derring-do??) My personal experience has been the really GREAT airmen feel no need to toot their own horn, their peers do it for them. But hey, what ever blows up your skirt...

Which function on the multimeter is it that shows "conductivity," exactly? Would that be the ohmmeter function, showing resistance? Are you talking about a continuity check? As this was a test performed under the supervision of your nonexistant former A&P (the one who wasn't on the field at the time), we'll have to give you the benifit of doubt on that. So, you performed a "conductivity" test, did you? And you question my credibility???? Eeegads.

Any other mechanics heard this common term? Anybody? See it in any textbooks? See it bantied about in the shop a lot do you? Never heard it. As a floor walker in a repair station. Not as an inspector in that repair station. Not as director of maintenance for two different operations. Perhaps I don't hang around enough former mechanics who don't exist at remote airfields, while they're conducting "conductivity" checks with "voltometers," though.

Well, I'm a mechanic, and although I agree with you that his use of the term "conductivity check with a voltmeter" is not correct, I kinda figured he meant a continuity check. Cut him a little slack.

Well I guess that explains everything, doesn't it. Intellect? Good grief. A master of survival? So your explaination, your excuse, is that you're safe because of your great intellect, and that you're not interest in being legal, is that it? Was your use of the "conductive voltometer" a measure of intellect, or merely being innovative, if not legal? What did your former A&P have to say about this? I'm sure he was helpful, and not horridly elitist. Probably just being logical.

Where again did logic find it's way into your repair?

I won't bore you with tales of my exploits, wars I have fought (only one), dragons and FAA inspectors I have slain, etc. I'd like to think I got some pretty cool layover stories, but I'm not near as articulate as Duke elegant, so I don't post them. I think your experience and wisdom would be accepted by the less qualified more readily if served with a little sugar rather than vinegar.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

Well, I slept at a holiday Inn Express last night...
.

....I didn't sleep at all.....never do....it's been linked to cancer

. I think your experience and wisdom would be accepted by the less qualified more readily if served with a little sugar rather than vinegar.

I think what he's trying to say AvBug is; instead of looking up some of those words that you misspelled, as Tony might suggest.... "determein"..."noticable"...."fortold"...."liklihood"...."ocured"..."hunkey" and "dorey"(both slang but still spelled incorrectly by current standards)..."bragodocio"....."puncutate"(one of my personal favorites, did you steal that from Mike Tyson? )...."occurance"....(I ran out of enthusiasm after that)...you might do well, simply checking the definition of one small word we call tact.

 

[CUEBOAT]

Since I missed the original post I am unaware of the type of airplane that had flaps stuck. More than likly a cessna 172. Anyone dare to find a fuel burn chart with flaps 15 in the AFM. Now 265 nm is quit a distance with no calculations to go off.

 

[TonyC]

I think what he's trying to say AvBug is; ...you might do well, simply checking the definition of one small word we call tact.

I'll second that.





(Not holding my breath, though.)

 

[redd]

Dash8driver,

Never have I ever suggested that it is wrong to declare an emergency. I do find the pinheads who scream bloody murder when they see a ripple in their coffee to be a bit much, but I have always, always maintained that one should do whatever is necessary to address the situation at hand, and that one should declare an emergency if that is what one feels warrants properly addressing the situation. I have stressed that point over and over, though folks like yourself keep misstating or falsely retelling it. Whatever your agenda, try sticking to the truth.

I have also stated, correctly, that requesting priority is the same as declaring an emergency, that there is nothing magic about declaring, and that ATC provides priority, period. To ATC, there is no difference. A report may be required where ever priority is given, weather an "emergency" has been declared or not.

I have also noted in my own instances that nowhere has a situation occured that a formal "declaration" would have made one iota of difference in the outcome, other than to make things seem more dramatic.

I see no need to defend this viewpoint; it's fact, it's true, and it's correct. Period.

Your experience and daring-do is not questioned.(apologies, Tony C...is it derring-do??) My personal experience has been the really GREAT airmen feel no need to toot their own horn, their peers do it for them. But hey, what ever blows up your skirt...

If was you, brightspark, that questioned my integrity, and it was you who brought into question my acts. The introduction of my own experiences was, therefore, your idea. Not mine. I have absolutely no need to seek your validation, but remember, you introduced the topic. I only responded with fact.

Well, I'm a mechanic, and although I agree with you that his use of the term "conductivity check with a voltmeter" is not correct, I kinda figured he meant a continuity check. Cut him a little slack.

I referred to his use of the term "running cold" to describe an electrical motor, to which he specifically questioned my validity and integrity, insinuating that it is a common industry term, and if I did not know it, this constituted proof positive that I lied. I didn't, he did. No need for slack, and it was he that recanted from this rather pointless, stupid thread. No?

There is such a thing as conductivity. It is the reciprocal of resistivity, and the resistance of a conductor is equal the to the resistivity coefficient times the length divided by the cross sectional area.....sooo, with a voltmeter which also incorporated a ohmmeter you could measure resistance which in a very indirect way is measuring conductivity.....but I'm not sure that this is what Scorch meant.

True, and I believe I addressed that specifically. However, that won't do any good in determining that a flap motor is the culprit in the system, especially since it was a quick troubleshoot to begin with, that got longer and longer with each retelling, right down to disconnecting the electrical connections and safetying them, all while the nonexistant former A&P mechanic watched over his shoulder. Yes, bigger, more conductive materials carry more current, and carry it more efficiently, with less resistance...but that's the sum of the quality of parts used to make the motor, not a factor in quickly troubleshooting it in the field with a "voltometer" while a former nonexistant A&P looks over one's shoulder so one can absolutely make it back for one's cancer exam.

...you might do well, simply checking the definition of one small word we call tact.

Why on earth would I do that?

Don't like what I have to say? Tough. Don't like how I spell? Tough. I'm a self taught typist who probably types a whole lot faster than you think...and who makes a lot of typing errors. If I gave a flying fig, I'd probably go back and make copious corrections to those errors, but I don't care...perhaps you shouldn't either. I'm pleased that you have the concern and have taken the time to let me know.

This thread has ground on long enough. Good to see that the peanut gallery has come out long enough to do what they do best; fail to address the thread itself, and putter around playing fringe flamebait. At least you're consistent, kids. I'm done with this thread.

 

[TonyC]

Dash8driver,

Never have I ever suggested that it is wrong to declare an emergency. I do find the pinheads who scream bloody murder when they see a ripple in their coffee to be a bit much, but I have always, always maintained that one should do whatever is necessary to address the situation at hand, and that one should declare an emergency if that is what one feels warrants properly addressing the situation. I have stressed that point over and over, though folks like yourself keep misstating or falsely retelling it. Whatever your agenda, try sticking to the truth.

I have also stated, correctly, that requesting priority is the same as declaring an emergency, that there is nothing magic about declaring, and that ATC provides priority, period. To ATC, there is no difference. A report may be required where ever priority is given, weather an "emergency" has been declared or not.

I have also noted in my own instances that nowhere has a situation occured that a formal "declaration" would have made one iota of difference in the outcome, other than to make things seem more dramatic.

I see no need to defend this viewpoint; it's fact, it's true, and it's correct. Period.



If was you, brightspark, that questioned my integrity, and it was you who brought into question my acts. The introduction of my own experiences was, therefore, your idea. Not mine. I have absolutely no need to seek your validation, but remember, you introduced the topic. I only responded with fact.



I referred to his use of the term "running cold" to describe an electrical motor, to which he specifically questioned my validity and integrity, insinuating that it is a common industry term, and if I did not know it, this constituted proof positive that I lied. I didn't, he did. No need for slack, and it was he that recanted from this rather pointless, stupid thread. No?



True, and I believe I addressed that specifically. However, that won't do any good in determining that a flap motor is the culprit in the system, especially since it was a quick troubleshoot to begin with, that got longer and longer with each retelling, right down to disconnecting the electrical connections and safetying them, all while the nonexistant former A&P mechanic watched over his shoulder. Yes, bigger, more conductive materials carry more current, and carry it more efficiently, with less resistance...but that's the sum of the quality of parts used to make the motor, not a factor in quickly troubleshooting it in the field with a "voltometer" while a former nonexistant A&P looks over one's shoulder so one can absolutely make it back for one's cancer exam.



Why on earth would I do that?

Don't like what I have to say? Tough. Don't like how I spell? Tough. I'm a self taught typist who probably types a whole lot faster than you think...and who makes a lot of typing errors. If I gave a flying fig, I'd probably go back and make copious corrections to those errors, but I don't care...perhaps you shouldn't either. I'm pleased that you have the concern and have taken the time to let me know.

This thread has ground on long enough. Good to see that the peanut gallery has come out long enough to do what they do best; fail to address the thread itself, and putter around playing fringe flamebait. At least you're consistent, kids. I'm done with this thread.

I've seen posts disappear in a flash - - I need to archive this one while I try to figure out what I've just seen.

 

[TonyC]

If was you, brightspark, that questioned my integrity, and it was you who brought into question my acts. The introduction of my own experiences was, therefore, your idea. Not mine. I have absolutely no need to seek your validation, but remember, you introduced the topic. I only responded with fact.



I referred to his use of the term "running cold" to describe an electrical motor, to which he specifically questioned my validity and integrity, insinuating that it is a common industry term, and if I did not know it, this constituted proof positive that I lied. I didn't, he did. No need for slack, and it was he that recanted from this rather pointless, stupid thread. No?

There's only ONE poster on this forum that uses the term brightspark as an attempt to disparage his opponent, and that poster is avbug. Apparently, he forgot this morning that he was logged under his alter ego redd. This would explain the out-of-left-field attacks I have received from redd while arguing with avbug.

The first-person accounts redd gives in this thread about how he has dealt with this thread confirm that assertion. In fact, redd has not posted on this thread at all up until this morning.

redd = avbug


What's the problem, avbug? Is one name not enough for you, that you need to hide some of your venom elsewhere?

 

[avbug]

Tony,

I am not Redd. I do know redd, coincidentally, but I am not that person. I am on the road, this is not my computer, and redd did not log out. Redd is now logged out. Those comments were indeed mine and my mistake; I posted hit the reply button, the screen came up, and I typed without stopping to think that I hadn't actually logged on. The screen came up because Redd had logged on, and I have no idea how to correct that. I did hit the logout button, and logged in under my own name here.

I do not, nor have not posted here under different names...unlike many other posters who frequent this site.

Redd had no part of this thread. My mistake, my post, my apology.

Regarding the thread in question, I feel that I know who made the post, and that the post is not legitimate. The individual is one who lurks on several aviation boards and occasionally pops up to masquerade as one type of experienced pilot or another. Sometimes he pops up to provide very poor counsel, which has caused some legitimate problems outside the internet on several occasions. One one occasion, I pursued the matter, and traced the posts back to the computer of a designated examiner in California.

Would anything of consequence happen with partially deployed flaps on the Bonanza? Probably not. But the post as provided indicated someone bragging about flying an airplane in an unairworthy condition. No steps to make it airworthy were provided. The accounting changed with each telling, and showed an individual with no understanding or experience trying to fix his own broken airplane, certify it for flight, justify it by saying he absolutely had to be home and therefore the whole show was okay, and then ratify the entire process by suggesting that it was okay because "at least I didn't die."

Flame bait, but stupid flame bait. Perhaps he was serious, but then more's the pity.

An inoperative flap motor may mask many other things. Is the electrical system low enough that it's unable to drive the motor? If so, and if a NiCad battery is used, is there a chance of a thermal runaway after start, or some time thereafter from the high current rush? What about a short in the motor, or a motor getting power but that is jammed? A fire potential. What about a jammed linkage that will let go after departure, causing an assymetrical flap imbalance? None of these issues, and so many more, were ever addressed; the poster merely made his own assesment of the problem, jumped in, and away he went...but in his words, "at least I didn't die."

So many cases have occured over the years in every facet of the industry where a small and simple problem turned out to be a much bigger problem; the proverbial tip of the iceberg. The urge to fly can get a body killed; I find it incredulous that so many posters mock this concept or try to set up roadblocks to understanding it. If the airplane is trying to tell you something, it's best to listen. It may be a very small warning sign...but it may be all you get.

You may recall in the thread I indicated one airplane that had two small stains under the wings; the only indication of some very serious cracking that was later found. What I didn't describe in the post was the fact that several years later, both wings separated from that same airplane in flight on national television, killing all three crewmembers, friends of mine, in a bright fireball. Small things become big things. Take nothing for granted. If there's something to be taken from this thread, then that is it.

As I said before, I'm done with this thread.

 

[CarjCapt]

Panic

Where is the "Panic" button when you need it.

 

[SATCFI]

dash8driver,

I believe that to obtain a ferry permit, an A&P has to certify the flight can be accomplished safely. One does not just ask the FSDO for a permit and they give it. So, a ferry permit would make the flight safer. If I'm incorrect, someone please correct me.

As for Redd and AVBUG, that was great...OOPS!

 

[JAFI]

Freight-D-Fred, you said:

"I won't bore you with tales of my exploits, ... , dragons and FAA inspectors I have slain, etc. "

I for one would like to hear these stories. It is always good to hear both sides of any story.

However, I never heard an Inspector say they have "slain" an Airman. I have heard them talk about battleing Bandits" though.

SATCFI, you may want to take the time to learn exactly what a "Ferry Permit" is and who issues them and for what reason. It could keep you out of trouble.

JAFI

 

[dash8driver]

Dash8driver

aww redd....err.. i mean avbug...or whoever you are today...

i'm just pokin fun at you because you like to paint yourself as the hero surrounded by danger, yet only because of his mighty self, does everything come out ok. you can fly a plane with half a wing, one engine failed, the other on fire, no hydraulics, all while ingesting trees without breaking a sweat.

that sure is impressive.