AriBen Aviator 100hr multi program?

[a-v-8er]

Looking for someone who's done the 100hr multi deal in Ft. Pierce at AriBen...

I've heard a lot of unsatisfied people talking about the school in general, but also a few (mostly multi builders) who were satisfied with what they came for. I'm looking for more info though. Anyone here attend the school? The time building program? Any info appreciated!

 

[maverick_fp00]

I called them up about 2 weeks ago. Here's the deal:

You get 100 hours of multi for $6000. You have to have your multiengine commercial and instrument ratings. Also, either you can do this with a friend, or they pair you up with somebody. You each pay the $6000. 50 hours is with you in the left seat and 50 of you in the right seat logging PIC, but acting as a safety pilot. To me, that's kinda boring so that's what disinterested me.

If I'm going to buy 100 hours, I want to fly it all.

 

[Timebuilder]

You can send a PM to a woman on the board here known as "flytovegas".

She will mave MUCH to tell you.

 

[darien]

ari ben

I went to aviator and had a great time If your going for the time building portion that's the best time. You can pair up with a different pilot each time you go flyling. The only bad thing is that most time building is restricted to the evening hours. It's great though because you get to fly with a wide range of guys. I've flown with helo pilots with thousands of hours from the forces to guys with only a couple hrs in the multi. This makes it the best experience of the whole program.
Ok your not flying the plane for the whole 100 hrs but you will be co pilot/ safty pilot for the other 50. Usually one guy will be left seat to destination the other on the return trip. If your going just to build the 100 hrs you'll be thankful that your not doing 100 hrs of flying with in two weeks. This is what most guys do when they come in. You can't spend a whole month in a hotel just to build 100 hrs Well you can but then the overall cost of doing 100hrs goes up substantially
Yes the planes are not the best, but they are average for a small flight school. I know instructors there who have hundreds of hours in those planes and have had no major problems.
They are training planes so do not nap when you're the co pilot. Rember anything can go wrong with a new or old plane, but your chances are greater in older planes.
If you fly approaches up and down the coast for a few hours no matter if your the pilot or co you will sleep good that night. There's nothing boring about doing that no time to day dream when the next airport is only ten miles away from the point you go mssed.
It's a tough decission and a lot of money so how much do you need or want the time and experience If you do go for it go in with a good attitude and do not expect to be spoon feed.
great luck to ya

 

[Starsailor]

I went to Ari-Ben to build time several years ago when it wasn't quite as expensive (ah, inflation), and I can second all that darien said about the program. Being a safety pilot is good experience, assuming you are doing your job, i.e. looking for traffic, maintaining situational awareness, &c. Often the non-flying pilot would run the radios, gear and flaps, not unlike what one would do as PNF at the airlines. The airplanes are well-maintained, considering the Duchesses get a 100-hr inspection about every week, and I think they change the oil every 50. If you like them and they like you, they might just offer you a job, so that's a definite plus. All told, it was great experience, as all the testimonials on the walls there will reiterate. I'm almost certain I wouldn't be where I am today without the multi-engine hours I earned at Ari-Ben. Oh, and if Walkwitz Aviation is still in business, I would avoid them like the proverbial plague. *shiver*

Regards,
Starsailor

 

[naviator]

Expensive!!!!!

59.95/hr for twin time is expensive?!?

 

[tarp]

$6000 divided by 50 hours PIC = $120/hr.

50 hours of tuning radios and playing FO ain't flying in my logbook.

Now if the right seat is a MEI who works the left seat guy through a non-stop 50 hour marathon of engine and system failures while doing VMC drills and stalls just for fun, then maybe both pilots are getting 100 hours of experience and make the whole deal a cheap date.

Eventually, you are going to have to present yourself to an interviewer. Almost like a trial you will be asked like you are swearing on a Bible - "Do you or do you not have 250 hours experience in multi-engine airplanes?"

 

[a-v-8er]

This particular issue has little to do with the program they're offering. Logging PIC or not is up to you. Either way you'll get 100hrs of experience that can be logged legally as PIC/Safety pilot acting PIC. Now, I also know that the airlines do not look at this as PIC time unless you were the designated PIC (hence, the PIC that logs time per 61.51(e) is not PIC in their eyes unless he also is agreed upon before or during the flight to act PIC).

Now, what would you do if you had little money, needed more multi time and had the option of getting 100hrs for $6000 or buying 50hrs for $6000 since you only want to put designated PIC hours in your logbook. Remember, the whole 100hrs can be legally logged as PIC (50/50 safety pilot/flying pilot per the regs). There's plenty of time after buying the 100hrs to earn "real" PIC hours, but for a lot of us that need to get up to insurance minimums and simply can't afford to buy the hours needed at regular rental price, this is an option. Before I would apply and go to an interview I'd hopefully have more multi and be able to "delete" any PIC I have as sole manipulator to the way that the company defines PIC. But as long as the regs say I can log it and eventually meet insurance to rent multi's or instruct in them at other places, I will log it!

It's about being smart, not doing it the airline way all the time... and like I said, once I have much more multi, what's preventing me from "deleting" 50% of the PIC hours earned from the 100hrs bought. Regardless, it still counts as total time, since the safety pilot is indeed required.

This debate could go on forever. But really, do you actually learn that much more when you're at the controls? Now, I totally agree that whatever the regs say can be logged should be followed and nothing else, but the hours in your logbook doesn't tell the whole story... Experience does, and that can't be measured just by someone's hours!

 

[Flymach2]

a-v-8er said:

"Regardless, it still counts as total time, since the safety pilot is indeed required."

Are you trying to say that everyone who does this time-building puts on a view-limiting device while manipulating the controls? I have a difficult time believing that.
I know, not everyone decides to blatantly disregard the Regs, but I've known a few people for a fact that have gone through that program and never wore a pair of Foggles or a hood. I think an interviewer or two would know it as well.

Regards

 

[a-v-8er]

True, true...

But how can they prove you wrong? Personally, I wouldn't cheat my self from the hood time - but I'm sure many others do. Logging time when you're not supposed to or triple logging PIC with one guy in the backseat is one of my pet peeves in aviation. I have a very neat and correct (!) logbook and I intend to keep it that way. There's nothing in it that I in fact haven't actually done, and when the time comes for an interview I'll be happy to explain that, regardless of if they would look at this time as double logging of PIC (no one under the hood). I understand your point, but what else can you do or how else are you suggesting that the time be logged?