Are you allowed to collect AvTrip Points?

[yfly]

The management of my department recently decided AvTrip Points do not fit in the company's ethics policy, which basically says no employee may accept monetary gifts from a vendor. Since AvTrip Points are good for Savings Bonds, points equal money.

I am asking for your company's policy on this issue, if they have a policy. Also, I think it will be interesting to hear the size of the company and or department.

My company is Fortune 500 with 5 Jet airplanes.

This informal survey is just for my curiosity. The decision has been made at my organization, and I am sure there is no turning back. Personally I never felt this was unethical. I never witnessed anyone buying fuel just for points. The ethics department didn't understand the program and let the manager decide. The company does allow employees to participate in hotel and airline reward programs and keep the rewards for personal benefit. The AvTrip program is the same as a hotel program in my mind. Maybe if AvTrip awarded hotel points......

 

[h25b]

I have worked at and heard of a couple other companies that view it this way as well so it's not unusual.

I work for a private company so I collect everything I can get my hands on and the boss could care less. Heck, he actually told me I could use an airline cc for fuel if I wanted the miles. We just collect incentives where there are no contract fuel programs are available so there's really no reason not to collect the points. And we're only ever at the least expensive FBO's unless the passengers have requested otherwise..

 

[staledog]

that's just crazy talk. "you can't collect avtrip points".....WHAT?!?!?!

i agree with you, it's no different than collecting hotel points. maybe they are worried that you are gonna buy more fuel then you really need just to get the points, but still....

how the heck are they gonna know if you get your points anyway...just do it.

(i would)....

if your fortune 500 company wants to be sooo ethical, they should make the execs ride the airlines instead of burning thousands of gallons of gas a year and polluting the environment with a fleet of private jets, right? and i bet if those rich crusty old execs could get frequent flyer miles on the trips that you take them on they would.... there's an argument or two in your favor against the whole "ethical" thing.

by the way my company has no policy against this sort of thing. sounds like the man is just trying to hold you down a little more any way he can.

 

[Luxor Two]

how the heck are they gonna know if you get your points anyway...just do it.

(i would)....

Is a savings bond for 50 bucks worth losing your job over?

If so, maybe you should find a better job.

Not something I would want to have to explain to my wife or future interviewer (after you're booted for violating company policy).

I wouldn't do it.

 

[Beatrix Kiddo]

One persons "ethics" is another persons "hypocrisy"....

 

[temcgrew]

I think it is the issue of Crew's buying extra fuel when not needed just to get the points. The points are based on gallons and if you buy the extra 100 gallons here and there just to pump up the points that would add up. Do they keep you from going to AvTrip FBO's? Because once you are there, the company cannot tell if you get the points or not, they go on your personal card. They can track the amount of fuel you buy and how much you come home with to see if you are getting more fuel than needed, but really how can they stop you from taking the points? Do they call and find out if you gave the FBO your card?

I can see how it could be a problem with fuel prices and all, so it is a good idea, but is it enforcable?

 

[passion4flying]

I think it is the issue of Crew's buying extra fuel when not needed just to get the points. The points are based on gallons and if you buy the extra 100 gallons here and there just to pump up the points that would add up. Do they keep you from going to AvTrip FBO's? Because once you are there, the company cannot tell if you get the points or not, they go on your personal card. They can track the amount of fuel you buy and how much you come home with to see if you are getting more fuel than needed, but really how can they stop you from taking the points? Do they call and find out if you gave the FBO your card?

I can see how it could be a problem with fuel prices and all, so it is a good idea, but is it enforcable?

Talk about unethical. What happened to doing the right thing even when not being watched. that is the company policy, if you don't like it, u know the rest...

Our company has the same avtrip policy. They do not want gifts from vendors influencing the choices the buyers or the execs make. Exactly opposite from our politicians. And look how corrupt they are. Just my .02 worth

 

[h25b]

Our company has the same avtrip policy. They do not want gifts from vendors influencing the choices the buyers or the execs make. Exactly opposite from our politicians. And look how corrupt they are. Just my .02 worth...

Nevermind....

 

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

Atlantic Aviation

Screw Avtrip Points. You can wipe your butt with those 13 year notes. Atlantic Aviation has the best program going on. You didnt mention Atlantic Aviation, but I'm sure your great Fortune 500 cheap asses you fly will eliminate them shortly. Atlantic is buying up numerous FBOs around the country, the chances of you refueling at one will increase over the next few years. 100 gallons purchased equals 5 bucks cold cash on a debit card they provide you. Much better than 50 bucks in 13 years which will buy you a movie rental by then!

 

[Diesel]

heck ya it's my retirement.

 

[NW Flyer]

I don't blame your company one bit. Here's why...

Some FBO's (you know the ones) will advertise openly that they offer "bonus points", up to 20 points per gallon. Read the fine print on the ad, it says "for full price sale". Then, they have another ad that shows 20 points per gallon, or 10 points with a 10c discount, or 1 point per gallon with a 20c discount.

This whole thing stinks. Really, if YOU were paying for the fuel, would you take the 20c discount, or the 20 points? What if you boss is paying for the fuel? I hope to think that ALL of you would take the discount, but I fear that is not the case.

I think there is room for abuse with this program, and that there are pilots out there that would cost the boss money to put some bonds in their pockets.

 

[FraxJockey]

Screw Avtrip Points. You can wipe your butt with those 13 year notes. Atlantic Aviation has the best program going on. You didnt mention Atlantic Aviation, but I'm sure your great Fortune 500 cheap asses you fly will eliminate them shortly. Atlantic is buying up numerous FBOs around the country, the chances of you refueling at one will increase over the next few years. 100 gallons purchased equals 5 bucks cold cash on a debit card they provide you. Much better than 50 bucks in 13 years which will buy you a movie rental by then!

Grrreeeaatt! Spend an extra $500 and we'll give $5...woohoo! I can't stand the counter people when they tell me that. I kindly remind them that their fuel prices are outrageous and that even by NOT getting fuel and paying their astronomical ramp fees I'll still save the company money by tankering in.

You're lucky you are not taxed on the points, coupons, hotel points, airline miles, etc... some companies consider this compensation and tax accordingly.

But back to the original post, our company does let us collect points, but only time will tell how much longer. And the company does keep track of how much you uplift, burn, land with, and price per gallon...per leg.

 

[FlyingMoose]

I would hope the appropriate manager of a Fortune 500 Flight Department with 5 jets would be actively participating in most or all of the fuel programs and/or negotiating contract rates for fuel, especially with the large FBO chains. I know I wouldn't have stayed in the good graces of the principals where I managed a flight department without doing so; and we were a private company which operated only one jet aircraft.

You're talking about a different issue when you start debating whether crews are taking on extra fuel at locations for incentives. That is inappropriate and if that is the case, then that would be my concern, not the incentives themselves. My company prenegotiates rates where ever we go. Our itineraries tell us where it is cheapest and we are expected to use good financial judgment in fueling but the descretion lies fully with the crew based on operational and safety considerations.

Apart from that, we do what we want with incentives; I choose to split them between the FO and cabin crew. Personally, I think it is very shallow of a company of any size to be that petty considering the expenses of most of the people you're flying!

 

[gutshotdraw]

True Story: One of our crews was refueling for a weight-sensitive takeoff at a high altitude airport. The Captain thought the re-fueling was taking longer than it should and double checked the fuel gauges to see that the total fuel had blown waaayy past what he ordered and was still rising! He ran outside to yell at the fueler to stop. "WTFO!" The fueler says the "Captain" told him to put on another 1000 gallons. "Who told you?!!?" "Him" says the refueler pointing to the male flight attendant with the goofy grin on his face carrying the nice, new leather jacket the FBO gave him for ordering another 1000 gallons. Thankfully, this bozo is now working elsewhere.

 

[NW Flyer]

I believe every word of that one!

FlyingMoose, in a perfect world, I agree that it would be shallow of a company to ban avtrip points, but then again, in a perfect world gutshotdraw's story would never have happened.

I was flying forest fires out of Pueblo, CO for a while, basing at the Flower there. That means I had the "pleasure" of hanging out in their lounge area most of the day for more than a few days. I saw plenty of crews ask for the best fuel price, but also saw plenty of crews come in with coupons for "40 points per gallon", and pay a good 40 cents or more per gallon for the fuel. I'm pretty sure that money wasn't coming out of their pocket, and equally sure they aren't giving the boss an envelope full of savings bonds at the end of the year!

Look at this ad: http://www.floweraviation.com/specials.htm

 

[labbutt]

Some avtrip fbos will give points even with contract fuel. you just have to ask the right way. most of the time the answer is no, but worth the 2 seconds it takes to ask. $50 is still $50, better than $0! If I were to break down my wonderful freight salary, I am sure that would be a couple hours of labor.

 

[Beechjetr]

I saved my boss $1000 on 1 trip to Las Vegas by not taking any avtrip points (2 fuelings).

 

[willNOTfly4free]

I saved my boss $1000 on 1 trip to Las Vegas by not taking any avtrip points (2 fuelings).

I'm sure your boss loves hearing about how much money you saved him.