Are women pilots 8 times safer than men?

[belchfire]

Let's see...Royal Air Force Ferry
Command...I wonder how many
of those "accidents" were macho
dudes right out of a Moth seeing
if they too could loop a Lancaster?

I have had the honor of flying with
some fine pilots of the fair sex, both
as their FO or CA. There have been
a few along the way that scared the
$hit outta me...kind of like some of
the guys I've flown with. There was
one that had more attitude than any
four of our males in our roster.

There are three kinds of lies.
1) Lies
2) D@mn Lies
3) Statistics

Withstanding G loading is largely a
matter of training and physical condition.
Believe it or not, pre-G-suits pilots
routienly pulled 6-7 g...I've done it.
Don't think I could do it now, to outta
shape. When VC-71 was issued g suits
to go with their Wildcats, one of the
guys went out and pulled 13g's...bent
the plane, but the little 'cat made it
back to the ship. I don't think that
the guys/gals doing competitive
aerobatics are wearing suits...how
about running your tests on them?

How about finding us statistical "evidence"
about male vs female accident rates
in 121 and 135 flying.

The whole arguement is bull$hit!

High flamebait factor though!

 

[Texasskicker]

Les vs. Gay

I have found that lesbian females make much better pilots than gay guys.

Feedback anyone?

 

[DX Rick]

I couldn't agree more...

las[QUOTE

For what it is worth, some of the best flight instructors I know are female.

Goose[/QUOTE]
I knew two female instructors that were awesome. I think it's because teaching comes more naturally to females.

 

[bigD]

Interestingly, I've also flown with eleven female pilots over the years. I certainly wouldn't have a problem flying with any them. Three of those eleven were my private, instrument, and commercial (single) instructors. So of course, to make any negative comments about how women fly would be essentially saying the same thing about how *I* fly.

If had to make any generalizations, it'd be that the females I've flown with tend to be more conservative in their decision making. Since a pretty high percentage of GA accidents are at least partly due to errors in judgement, I could see women being a bit safer. 8x safer? That seems a little excessive though.

 

[A Squared]

Let's see...Royal Air Force Ferry
Command...I wonder how many
of those "accidents" were macho
dudes right out of a Moth seeing
if they too could loop a Lancaster?

That's a thought, but Rick is actually referring, not to the "RAF ferry command" (I don't think that existed), but to the the the Air Transport Auxilliary which was civillian men and women ferrying aircraft to free up RAF pilots for combat. At any rate Rick fails to back up this claim any sort of a verifiable reference, just his assertion that the data does exist and that it shows women are 8 times safer than men. Never mind the fallacy of taking the statistics of 166 women and extrapolating that to a sweeping generalization about all women pilots a half a century later.

How about finding us statistical "evidence"
about male vs female accident rates
in 121 and 135 flying.

Actually, the discussion in the second link contains exactly that. They don't support Mr Durden's claim at all. They are informal statistics, but they are more than durden is able to produce.

 

[DX Rick]

Woah!

That's a thought, but Rick is actually referring, not to the "RAF ferry command" (I don't think that existed), but to the the the Air Transport Auxilliary which was civillian men and women ferrying aircraft to free up RAF pilots for combat. At any rate Rick fails to back up this claim any sort of a verifiable reference, just his assertion that the data does exist and that it shows women are 8 times safer than men. Never mind the fallacy of taking the statistics of 166 women and extrapolating that to a sweeping generalization about all women pilots a half a century later.


Actually, the discussion in the second link contains exactly that. They don't support Mr Durden's claim at all. They are informal statistics, but they are more than durden is able to produce.

Are you talking about me, or is the other guys name Rick?

 

[A Squared]

>>>>>Are you talking about me, or is the other guys name Rick?

Oh, sorry, the columnist in question is Rick Durden, no reference to you.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Good point-


You would need to do a strict comparison depending on type of flying position, regional weather issues.

United FO, or cappyy third rate carrier dog-tired CA?

Freight dog in the Appalachians or freight dog in the desert southwest.

I see too many statistical traps to really answer this easily.

Also, the very different number of female vs male pilots probably would make meaningful statistical comparisons nearly impossible.

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

I can only speak from personal experience and I'll give credit where credit is due. 1>Flying into LAX during rush hours, the PF (female pilot) after multiple runway changes turned the wrong way and would have landed on the wrong runway had I not intervened. 2>Climbing out of JFK and given an intermediate level off at FL 200, the PF (female pilot) blew through her altitude and I had to intervene. 3> Cleared for the visual into CVG landing north the PF (female pilot) was high and fast and I had to intervene. 90% of the female pilots I've flown with are subpar and weak. However I will say I have flown with ONE female pilot who was a good pilot and a great stick. Overall, it's 90% the wrong stuff and 10% the right stuff.

 

[aviatornick]

i can agree with the statement that women are better cfi's. throughout my 4 years of college there were 5 girls in my class. 1 out of those 5 are still flying today. the 4 that aren't flying stopped b/c they couldn't take the pressure of check rides. in class, these women were book smart like you wouldn't believe, aced every test. stick em in an airplane, ask them to do a single engine ils, they poop their pants and give up. this is just my experience. sorry if i offended anyone!

 

[AV1ATRX]

If that is true, then it's a good thing they quit when they did. However, I can say that I have known at least 4 males that have quit before getting through training, so that doesn't really mean anything.

Obviously I'm rooting for the women, and I have flown with some female pilots who were better than most men I've flown with. Women pilots are different - it's the way we were designed, or wired. But we are both good (or bad) for different reasons. It's silly to do reports like that, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, it has been my observation that women generally are calmer in the cockpit. Men seem to get all uptight about the littlest things! I never have been able to figure that out...

 

[nosehair]

Women pilots are different - it's the way we were designed, or wired. But we are both good (or bad) for different reasons. It's silly to do reports like that, in my opinion.

You hit the nail on the head, right there, AV1ATRX. Women and men react/interact differently with one another, as opposed to men/men or women/women.

I try very hard to interact "the same" with a female in the cockpit(or any other business place) as I would a male, but it imposes a different "stress level". I might say something inappropriate, or look the wrong way, and I'm sure it is the same for women. I know that 2 opposite sex pilots in the cockpit causes additional stress. GENERALLY SPEAKING! Of course if you fly with the same one, and both are good and work well together, that tenseness would probably subside to an almost undetectabl level, but would never go away.

These kind of statistics could only approach a level of validity if they were taken from single-pilot operations only. And even then, there are too many variables, as has been mentioned, to have any real validity.

 

[JediNein]

<kidding>There is a difference in the way a female approaches a two-pilot crew as compared to a male. The guys will duke it out in the cockpit on short final then have a beer in the bar together. The female lands, then backs over the guy in the parking lot. The two female disagreement will last until both are at the next airline, if not longer.</kidding>

I knew two female instructors that were awesome. I think it's because teaching comes more naturally to females.

Two of the worst CFIs I've encountered were female. They were afraid to say "do it my way" while instructing. This is really bad when you are a student trying to learn a first method and the CFI just gave you ten and won't tell you which one to use.

As an instructor, I've encountered timid female students that needed to awaken what I call the "inner bitch." Once they've done this, they are fine. They may still have fears to conquer. They may still make an occasional bad decision. But, they won't be giving up their PIC authority or responsibility.

It wasn't that long ago that some females were 'delicate' and expected to faint at the sight of something or even upon hearing bad news. There were 'uncultured' farmer girls that had to help hold the unkind end of a cow during a complicated delivery, then because only their arm was slender enough, reposition the calf and help pull it out. There are still females in both categories. If the first can not overcome their programming they shouldn't be in the cockpit. If the second can not overcome their programming, they'll crash while "looping the bridge," "buzzing the boyfriend's house," or "inverted at 200' AGL." These are the same errors that guys make.

So, are females safer? Probably not until there are enough in the industry to get real statistics. The Avweb author is probably trying to get out of the doghose at home.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[TurboS7]

The person to really get me into this flying thing was Jerrie Cobb the first qualified women astronaut. Great lady, and an awesome pilot, by JAARS standards she took a lot of risk. The bottom line was that she had tons of experience and knew that all the odds were in her favour. I have found that women pilot's are more intimidated by men and men in management. They are consevative because they are very sensitive about any thing being said about them from men, especially management. In a world that would be run by women with no men involved I would put them on a par with men. Some take risk other don't, some know how to take risk and put the odds in their favour. Risk taking has nothing to do with safety. Safety is evaulating the risk vs. the objective and acomplishing the objective with the least amont of risk. In my opinion accidents have no relation to safety as most of the times they happen due to imcompetence and not risk management.

 

[A Squared]

In my opinion accidents have no relation to safety

Well, that is certainly an interesting opinion.

Just for the record, it wasn't my intent to solicit women pilot horror stories, but rather see if there were in fact statistical studies out there which address this. Yeah, I know that threads take on a life of thier own, and I'm not trying to exert any control here, just clarifying my position.

 

[TurboS7]

The point that I am trying to make is that accidents happen because of incompetance, flying skills, judgement skills, maintenance skills, or God was just pissed off at you. Since say .01% of pilots flying are incompetant and the male to female ratio is say a 100 to 1 the stats will say that women are safer just based on that ratio alone. I would say that they are equal. All of the incidents that have been related to on this thread I have experience with men, not women. My conclusion would be that in the end they are equal by say hours vs. accident ratio.

 

[Ailerongirl]

or God was just pissed off at you.

Someone please remind me not to go up on day I annoyed the Lord

 

[Vector4fun]

Since say .01% of pilots flying are incompetant

Hate to say, and not trying to start any pissin' contests, but the figure is quite a bit higher than .01% in my opinion........

What would you think of a C210 pilot who tells you (a controller) the 5500' level, dry, paved and grooved runway is too "short" for him to land on? Or a Malibu pilot that takes 4 attempts (three bounced go-arounds) to make a full stop landing on 9000' in a ten knot X-wind?

You wouldn't believe what's going on out there.......

 

[A Squared]

The point that I am trying to make is that accidents happen because of incompetance, flying skills, judgement skills, maintenance skills, or God was just pissed off at you. Since say .01% of pilots flying are incompetant and the male to female ratio is say a 100 to 1 the stats will say that women are safer just based on that ratio alone. I would say that they are equal. All of the incidents that have been related to on this thread I have experience with men, not women. My conclusion would be that in the end they are equal by say hours vs. accident ratio.

Ahhh, I knew you meant something else, it's just that the quote taken by itself struck me as kind of funny.

 

[nosehair]

What would you think of a C210 pilot who tells you (a controller) the 5500' level, dry, paved and grooved runway is too "short" for him to land on? Or a Malibu pilot that takes 4 attempts (three bounced go-arounds) to make a full stop landing on 9000' in a ten knot X-wind?

...uuuuuhh, that they are being extremely safe?

 

[A Squared]

Since Turbo mentioned ratios, I thought I'd toss out the numbers, as food for thought.

There are 520,560 active* non-student pilots in the US of those, 24576 are women or 4.7 % women.

There are 134,612 ATPs. of those 3,848 are women, or 2.9 %
There are 122,053 CPLs, of those 5,366 are women, or 4.4%
There are 247 PPLs, of those 14,152 are women, or 5.7%

(note, the ATP, CPL and PPL figures are airplane figures, they don't include rotorcraft only, glider only, or lighter than air only, certificates)

I believe that "active" means that he pilot holds a current medical certificate.

According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, 4.2 % of employed pilots are women.

 

[nosehair]

There are 520,560 active* non-student pilots in the US of those, 24576 are women or 4.7 % women.
.....
According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, 4.2 % of employed pilots are women.

If I have this right, that means almost all of the female pilots are employed as pilots. Only 0.5% of female pilots are flying for the sheer joy of it. Is that right?

 

[English]

..............

 

[RJP]

For what it's worth, it has been my observation that women generally are calmer in the cockpit. Men seem to get all uptight about the littlest things! I never have been able to figure that out...

Maybe it's their maternal instinct.

Don't forget to mention that women make better fighter pilots too.

 

[phishn@daves]

For the record...............I went to FSI "bobbysamd easy"..............and I picked my FI after meeting her at a bar. Well she turned out to be one of the best pilots I have ever flown with! She also did my aerobatic training and she was insane.........she loved it, I have never felt so comfortable flying with anyone since!


Of course her Dick was bigger than mine, but hey............I was only a "young" student!

I'm kidding.

Kinda.

But of all the pilots I have flown with, I really cannot tell you who is safer.........I've flown with really $hitty FO's, mostly male b/c there are more male fo's here. But, the women/girls/ladies...........have been really good.

I hate trying to genderize.........I think it's BS!

Take care

 

[ThomasR]

EOE What?

How pregnant does a woman have to be before she is restricted from flight duty at an airline?

Does Postpostpartum Depression figure into flight status for women when being re-instituted into a flight slot?

Is trauma recovery time and the rate of adrenaline metalization a factor for women in a command flight position?

What kind of flight conditions are women most suited? And what conditions were women observed when these statistics were being formulated?

Different kinds of flying for different kinds of people.

Women have a more detailed sense of smell, slightly wider range of hearing and are more adept at close order eye hand coordination. Men are stronger, can more easily orient themselves spatially and can more easily formulate three D imagery from two D form [imagine what something will look like in real form just by reading about it such as blue prints or a verbal description.]

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

What kind of flight conditions are women most suited?

Inverted.

 

[A Squared]

If I have this right, that means almost all of the female pilots are employed as pilots. Only 0.5% of female pilots are flying for the sheer joy of it. Is that right?

No, not quite nosehair.

It just means that of all the pilot certificates 4.7% are held by women,

and that of all employed pilots, 4.2% are women

There's a couple of crucial pieces of data missing which would be needed to determine what percentage of all women pilots are employed.

If I have to guess, I would say that the percentage is approximately the same as it is for men, the percentage of all pilots who are women, is very close to the percentace of employed pilots who are women. Seems like the proportions carry through.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Women have a more detailed sense of smell,

deleted in advance...

 

[PA-44Typed]

Are women pilots 8 times safer than men?

-No, just 8 times more likely to get a job then a man.