Are we suffering from the "Stockholm Syndrome?"

[Turtlesfly]

It struck me as I was reviewing for recurrent . . .

maybe as a pilot group we are like the hostages. In this industry for the longest time it has pretty much been nothing recently but threats. I'm even talking pre-2001. And certainly after 2001 it was BK's, cancelled retirements, threats of layoffs, actual layoffs, demands to give up QOL, firing probie's, whip-sawing, alter-ego airlines, etc . . . .

. . . is it possible that we've been abused for so long that when they come to us now to ask for more concessions we start to feel sorry for the company because times are tough and say, "well . . . . . . . . . . . . okay, just one more time."

Thoughts?

 

[The Drizzle]

******************** that with a stick.

 

[rogerwilcoout]

It struck me as I was reviewing for recurrent . . .

maybe as a pilot group we are like the hostages. In this industry for the longest time it has pretty much been nothing recently but threats. I'm even talking pre-2001. And certainly after 2001 it was BK's, cancelled retirements, threats of layoffs, actual layoffs, demands to give up QOL, firing probie's, whip-sawing, alter-ego airlines, etc . . . .

. . . is it possible that we've been abused for so long that when they come to us now to ask for more concessions we start to feel sorry for the company because times are tough and say, "well . . . . . . . . . . . . okay, just one more time."

Thoughts?

Well, my only thought to that is that we have nothing left to give.......'cept blood maybe and I am scheduled to give that in divorce court.....she left me for a guy that has a real paying job - he's a garbage man.

 

[crzepilot]

I hate to say it but Pilots need to take action against this crap, we need to take our futures into our own hands and walk without the Union's approval. And I mean everyone just quit.

 

[11thHour]

It struck me as I was reviewing for recurrent . . .

maybe as a pilot group we are like the hostages. In this industry for the longest time it has pretty much been nothing recently but threats. I'm even talking pre-2001. And certainly after 2001 it was BK's, cancelled retirements, threats of layoffs, actual layoffs, demands to give up QOL, firing probie's, whip-sawing, alter-ego airlines, etc . . . .

. . . is it possible that we've been abused for so long that when they come to us now to ask for more concessions we start to feel sorry for the company because times are tough and say, "well . . . . . . . . . . . . okay, just one more time."

Thoughts?

Good point. Certainly, there are many that suffer from it. And we all get to pay the price for those feeble-minded fools.

 

[olympus593]

It struck me as I was reviewing for recurrent . . .

. . . is it possible that we've been abused for so long that when they come to us now to ask for more concessions we start to feel sorry for the company because times are tough and say, "well . . . . . . . . . . . . okay, just one more time."

Thoughts?

No not one more time, most of us are already operating under concession, there is nothing more to give period.

 

[Turtlesfly]

Well maybe I should have posted this under the majors board, then. My wild prediction: just watch - some pilot group will give conessions here shortly. XJT might be the first . . .

 

[Metro752]

Put them on a list.

 

[SpatialD]

Well maybe I should have posted this under the majors board, then. My wild prediction: just watch - some pilot group will give conessions here shortly. XJT might be the first . . .

Sadly, I think you're right. And I think it's a very good point. Somehow, the pilots - especially the union types - are the very ones touting the argument that if we don't take concessions we're going to ruin our companies, because management is already doing all they can and we have to be reasonable, blah, blah, blah...


It makes me sick. Unfortunately, I don't see any way to get through to these guys - believe me, I've tried, and I'll keep on trying until I get smart and distance myself and my future from the rest of them.

 

[cybourg10]

XJT will not be giving money back, I would rather be furloughed than take a pay cut . It has to stop somewhere. It has gotten to the point where this job isn't worth saving, I hope I look back 40 years from now and see that our pay now is the lowest it ever was during my career. Just take a look at the history of pilot pay cuts and see if it ever helped the company and if they every got it back.....

 

[Andy Neill]

I think anyone dissatisfied with his job, be it pilot or accountant, should schedule a bit of quiet time when they ask themselves, why am I doing this? or maybe create two lists - Why I like this work - Why I dislike this work. Answer the questions thoughtfully.

I hope that if I was in a line of work I didn't like and had little hope of it getting better, I would move on. That's the sensible thing to do - right?

I suspect most stay in their jobs unhappily because of a combination of the following reasons:
- Inertia
- Feel they can't afford the emotional and financial expense of learning a new line of work
- Hope that things will get better (whether they really will or not) and that they can gut it out in the meantime.
- Feel they are not now and never will be qualified to do the work that would satisfy their desired lifestyle requirements.

Gut check time.

 

[Dodge]

It comes down to everyone's own definition of a sustainable rate of return. In other words, can you do something else that has a better overall return.

The union leaders will always negotiate concessions. They are politicians and definately are not up for looking for another job where they will be unknown newhires. Nor are they real juiced on the idea of a different field. Most pilots fall into this category as well. At least the last 8 years have proven that. Other than Comair, I can't think of a pilot group that drew a line. Maybe today that line might be more approachable, but it's doubtful.

It is very apparent that at least a couple pilot groups need to hold fast, but who will fall on their swords?

 

[belchfire]

Well, between downwards pressures in the economy and flight instructors and others doing whatever they can to embrace SJS and applying downward pressures on wages and the 9 to 62 million dollar severance packages that CEO's take to not let the door hit them in the arse as they run away from the floundering economic enterprise they have utterly failed to manage...

Well, we're fracked!

 

[DoinTime]

It struck me as I was reviewing for recurrent . . .

maybe as a pilot group we are like the hostages. In this industry for the longest time it has pretty much been nothing recently but threats. I'm even talking pre-2001. And certainly after 2001 it was BK's, cancelled retirements, threats of layoffs, actual layoffs, demands to give up QOL, firing probie's, whip-sawing, alter-ego airlines, etc . . . .

. . . is it possible that we've been abused for so long that when they come to us now to ask for more concessions we start to feel sorry for the company because times are tough and say, "well . . . . . . . . . . . . okay, just one more time."

Thoughts?

This profession has steadily given back wages and work rules since deregulation. To have wages equal to value of the dollar in the 1970's we would have top out rates posted above $350/hour.

I would agree with your assertion that pilots have fallen for Stockholm syndrome but only in the regard that they keep voting Republican year after year after year.

 

[Dodge]

Mesaba got an outstanding contract under the Bush Administration in 2004. Our very pro dem MEC stated so. It was so good that our leadership 18 months later came to the pilot group and stated that we actually needed to give it back so we could help the company out of their troubled waters.

The voting of either party has nothing to do with it. Period. If it did, we would have all been making $125/hour for a Saab Captain under Clinton. That wasn't the case was it, or was I asleep?

Bottom line is the pilot group has to stand up for itself and be ready to pull the plug. Having union leaders talking tough only to negotiate concessions is not a winning game plan.

The question is.......who's man enough to do it first? I already know the answer.

 

[DoinTime]

The voting of either party has nothing to do with it. Period. If it did, we would have all been making $125/hour for a Saab Captain under Clinton. That wasn't the case was it, or was I asleep?

Airline labor groups were decimated all through the 80's after deregulation. Lorenzo burned them down one after the other while the Republican administrations at the time laughed their asses off from the cheap seats. Airline labor started to make a resurgence near the end of the Clinton administration. United, Delta, Comair, Air Wisconsin, and Horizon all nailed down big contracts. Everyone except Horizon has given them back under the Bush II administration.

Bottom line is the pilot group has to stand up for itself and be ready to pull the plug. Having union leaders talking tough only to negotiate concessions is not a winning game plan.

This statement is contrary to itself. If the rank and file ratifies what is negotiated by the Union leadership they are the ones to blame for the failed game plan.

The question is.......who's man enough to do it first? I already know the answer.

The only way you could know is if its you. Clearly, you were in the minority at your pilot group.

 

[Dodge]

Doin Time,

There is nothing in your post that I disagree with. The only issue is that I believe it is irrelevant what politician is at what desk.

I voted no for that fantastic XJ contract. The pay was absolutley pitiful for Jet PIC/SIC. Other than a few improvements with some scheduling language, it was the same agreement as the 1996 CBA.

The union leaders and pilot group all talked big, but the majority were ok with a ho-hum job vs. looking for a new one. Management knew this would happen. The "who's man enough" question should have been worded 'what pilot group'. Sorry. My prediction is that the answer is "None".