Are training bonds enforceable?

[timetoquit]

I've noticed many foreign airlines are requiring training bonds. If one leaves the company before the bond is up how do they go about attempting to collect on the bond from overseas?

Seems to me this would be hard to do and selling it to a 3rd party debt collector violates the commercial code of contracts and can be easily tossed out since it's almost impossible to produce evidence of a signed contract between the collector and the debtor as required by the UCC.

Thoughts?

 

[radarlove]

Why would it be hard to produce a copy of a signed training contract? Various folks have had various rates of success with these types of things, there's no easy answer.

One particularly nasty form is for a company to force you to take out a loan to pay the contract, then the company makes your monthly payments until you quit, or the loan is paid off.

If you leave, then the bank gets to go after you, not the company, so your credit rating etc. is on the line.

 

[timetoquit]

Why would it be hard to produce a copy of a signed training contract? Various folks have had various rates of success with these types of things, there's no easy answer.

One particularly nasty form is for a company to force you to take out a loan to pay the contract, then the company makes your monthly payments until you quit, or the loan is paid off.

If you leave, then the bank gets to go after you, not the company, so your credit rating etc. is on the line.

When companies sell their debt to debt collectors they are unable to transfer the contract to the the new creditor. In the UCC, there must be a contract in place between the debtor and creditor, and 3rd party debt collectors are unable to achieve this. When you question them about producing the contract between you and the 3rd party debt collector, they almost always back off and sell the debt to another 3rd party debt collector because they know they have no chance to collect.

Since SSN numbers are tied to your credit report and only valid in the USA, an overseas debt would be hard to place on an American credit report.

Therefore, I think it would be hard for an overseas company to enforce a training bond in America. And if so, I am curious at what attempts they will go through to try to enforce and collect on it.

I have known several people successfully use letter like below on matters like this, but not against a training bond from overseas.

NOTICE TO PRINCIPALS IS NOTICE TO AGENTS IN THEIR PRIVATE CAPACITY
NOTICE TO AGENTS IS NOTICE TO PRINCIPALS IN THEIR PRIVATE CAPACITY
Silence is acquiescence​

Dear Unknown Debt Collector:

I received an unsolicited phone call demanding payment for an unnamed, undisclosed account. I did not contact you nor did I invite you to contract with me. I hereby give you lawful written notice to stop communication with me on the telephone at home or at my place of employment regarding the account number above. If you attempt to call me after receipt of this letter, you will be charged for harassment.

I did not request information from you about some alleged creditor’s request for payment. I resent the fact that you are using double speak to try to cause me to part with my property, possibly causing me a legal injury.

Your request is a trespass into my commercial affairs. Trespass is a criminal offense. I do not know you. I did not write to you. You are involving yourself into my commercial affairs and refusing me a commercial settlement.

Therefore, if you think you represent me in this matter, you are hereby fired. If you have a contract with me, please present it in its original, pristine condition, front and back, certified copy with my wet ink signature. If you fail to produce this contract, you will be required to remove any derogatory entry from all credit bureaus, including Trans Union, Equifax, and Experian. Please send me a Notice of Release showing this alleged debt has been removed from my credit report. You have 10 days to send me this document or you will be in Default.

If you refuse or ignore this order, I will assume by your silence that this matter is closed. If that is the case, then do not harass me further and do not contact me again. The use of the U.S Postal Service to collect on any unlawful debt is considered mail fraud under federal statute 18 U.S.C 1341 and the use of the U.S. Mail more than once in any 10-year period constitutes a pattern of racketeering activity under statute 18 U.S.C 1961.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXX
Invoking UCC-1-307
With Reservation of All My Rights

PRIVATE NOTICE OF OFFER PENDING VERIFICATION

NOTICE TO PRINCIPALS IS NOTICE TO AGENTS IN THEIR PRIVATE CAPACITY
NOTICE TO AGENTS IS NOTICE TO PRINCIPALS IN THEIR PRIVATE CAPACITY
Silence is acquiescence
​

Dear [debt collector]:

Please TAKE NOTICE that this is not a refusal to pay a debt, but I am disputing the debts referenced by the above accounts, and I am making this good faith Offer to pay off, in full, the alleged debts to [alleged creditor and it's agents] provided you can verify and validate said debt.

Pursuant to 15 USC Sect. 1692 (g), you must verify and validate the debt when you are asked to do so. “Verification” means that the living person who signs the response must be competent to testify, must have personal knowledge, must make all statements under penalty of perjury under the laws of the united states of America, and must make statements that are true, correct, complete, and not misleading.

Please take further NOTICE that your failure to provide a “verification and validation” of the alleged debt within ten (10) days of receipt of this NOTICE will place you in Fault, and your fault will be your agreement that you are refusing my good faith Offer to pay off the alleged debt, and pursuant to the Uniform Commercial Code at UCC 3-603(b), when an Offer to pay off a debt is refused, the debt is discharged to the extent of the amount offered.

In the meantime, I would kindly request that you cease anddesist from contacting me by phone, or by letter, unless the letter is a “verification and validation” of the alleged debt. You should also be aware that sending unsubstantiated demands for payment through the United States mail system may be considered as mail fraud under federal and state laws. You may wish to seek legal advice before contacting me again.

Failure to satisfy this request within the parameters of the fair Debt Collection Practices Act will be accepted as your absolute and unequivocal waiver of any and all claims against me and your tacit agreement and stipulation that you will compensate me for all expenses and fees.

If you do not first provide me with a signed written “verification and validation,” and you make any further attempt to contact me by phone or signed or unsigned written communication, or you make any unverified adverse reporting to any Credit Bureau with regards to my Credit, this will be cause for MY contacting the Federal Trade Commission about your illegal trade practices as well as cause for my private redress of grievance against you. ACT ACCORDINGLY.

I look forward to hearing from you soon with the verification and I thank you for your kind cooperation in this matter.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX
Invoking UCC-1-307
With Reservation of All My Rights

 

[tyuwerty]

Why take the job if you are planning on breaking the contract?

 

[aussiefly]

In some countries an outstanding debt is grounds to bar you from leaving the country. It would be rpetty nasty to resign and then get to the airport and be told that you are not leaving until arrangements regarding your bond have been made.

 

[Sun Devil 2000]

I got stuck with one a couple of years back. The reason I left is because I was furloughed once and 6 months later I was given a different notice of proposed furlough. So reading the writing on the walll I got another job. However, I was waiting for a class date and the notice was cancelled. An attorney informed me had I actually given my notice between the issuance of the notice and its cancellation that I could have gotten out of the deal but, since I didn't it was rock solid. So I had to pay off the bond.

On a side note, the place I went to worked out to be a good choice as I had a quick upgrade and my wife and I relocated to my domicile.