Are the March-May ASA Classes Filled to Capacity?

[Flying Ninja]

Does anyone know if the four classes that ASA announced for attrition is filled to capacity?

Has anyone hear ASA starting new classes soon?

When is the "contract negotiations" going to be completed with ASA?

 

[HoserASA]

Does anyone know if the four classes that ASA announced for attrition is filled to capacity?

Has anyone hear ASA starting new classes soon?

When is the "contract negotiations" going to be completed with ASA?

You may not want to come here. With DAL about to strike, and ASA negtiations going nowhere, be forewarned!

Hoser

 

[Flying Ninja]

Thanks for the sentiments. I do feel for ya. But I am still interested in the answers to the original questions.

 

[79%N1]

OK then, as far as contract negotiations, don't look for them to finish anytime soon, and maybe not without some sort of job action. The mediator forced the sides back to the table for 6 days in April. Hopes were high that progress of any kind would be made, anf that ASA mismanagement was actually as serious as they state to finish. BUT.......the first three days showed that not to be the case. They dragged their feet, stalled, and delayed more. They also are holding back items they already agreed to in an effort to hold something back to make us trade for it later. BS tactics. A strike may loom ahead. Morale is low. Pilots are pi$$ed.

As far as classes.......it seems hiring only for attrition. It seems about 15 pilots a month are leaving. Dont see any big hiring push anytime soon, especially since we are looking at a net loss of aircraft when the ATR's are retired soon, and we are not currently slated to get anymore aircraft.

Not a very Rosy picture at ASA. But hey, good luck with that, though!

 

[Crash Pad]

So if the place is so bad how come ASA only dumps 15 pilots a month. Great Lakes, Mesa, go through 15 pilots before lunch. The truth is pilots don't leave ASA because they like it here. The numbers don't lie. 180 pilots a year is what 10% annual attrtition. The truth is ASA doesn't even lose 180 a year I know my number hasn't moved up at that rate.
ASA has FO's that don't upgrade. I can't think of a bigger endorsement of a company. They like it so much they don't even seek advancement. Last bid had some 200 number guy put in for right seat on the CR7. They are going to have to go to training anyway but still will not upgrade.
To your questions. Classes will be few and far between. Pilots aren't leaving because they are happy. Contract will not be settled because pilots are happy. They talk a good game on this board but at the end of the day they don't leave.

 

[shamrock]

If I remember the #'s correctly the word is 30-50 upgrades and new hires numbering in the low 100's for the near future.

A little birdy involved with new hire classes (ALPA recruitment) was talking about it at FSI yesterday.

 

[79%N1]

Dude, they are not leaving because there is nowhere to go. AirTran, Jet Blue and SW can only hire so many pilots in a month......and there are thousands of Pilots from ASA, Comair, Mesaba, Mesa, Pinnacle, CHQ, Coex and Eagle, etc trying to get those few jobs. ASA sucks. Sorrry. I like the equipment and the people I work with, but the company is sorry. Its a total crap product, run by extremely inept management, tied solely to a bankrupt, struggling carrier. Management wants a concessionary contract, to an already substandard, below industry standard contract in almost every way! Then, they violate that sad a$$ contract EVERY chance they get. They try to pi$$ off pilots, in hopes they will quit. They DO NOT value their employees at all. Labor unrest looms closely on the horizon, if the Federal Mediator ever allows it, which they probably wont. (Management knows this) The schedules absolutely BLOW! We have the ABSOLUTE WORST scheduling department in the airline industry, with pi$$ poor reserve rules. (Actually no rules at all) If your comback to me is if you dont like it why dont you quit, nice try. I would love to. As soon as I can find another flying job, or in lieu of, another job outside of aviation, I will. This is not worth $35,000/year. See, the problem with this industry is the carrot factor. I can potentially double that income by waiting it out here (maybe forever), thus the carrot. In the past, the carrot was putting in a couple years at xyz regional, and get the million dollar job at a major. But, for the most part, that carrot is gone. So, it is still hard to leave the industry, because what jobs are out there to replace 35,000-75,000+ income. So, we hang on. This is why we take $20 bucks/hr to fly an RJ. The carrot. Next year 35,000. A couple years more 70,000. A few years after that, the majors. $100,000+ with a great pension. Management at the Regionals know this. We just havent shifted our paradigms and realized that the carrot is gone. Anyway, sorry to vent. But, ASA is not that great.

 

[blueridge71]

I agree with a lot of what 79%N1 said. I disagree that the NMB won't allow a strike. I don't see any reason why they won't at some point.

But, yeah, ASA is not a great place to work. If you have never worked anywhere with a decent contract, maybe it looks okay. By the same token, Mesa looks good to people who don't know any better (although I'm defnitely not saying that ASA is as bad a Mesa).

The bottom line is that 79%N1 is right. People are not leaving because there is no place to go. Without captain time, a lot of doors are closed. And a lot of the doors that are open may as well be closed due to competitive requirements.

And upgrading to the 700 can hardly be called a training event. It is nonjeopardy and very laid back.

 

["GO AROUND"]

OK then, as far as contract negotiations, don't look for them to finish anytime soon, and maybe not without some sort of job action. The mediator forced the sides back to the table for 6 days in April. Hopes were high that progress of any kind would be made, anf that ASA mismanagement was actually as serious as they state to finish. BUT.......the first three days showed that not to be the case. They dragged their feet, stalled, and delayed more. They also are holding back items they already agreed to in an effort to hold something back to make us trade for it later. BS tactics. A strike may loom ahead. Morale is low. Pilots are pi$$ed.

As far as classes.......it seems hiring only for attrition. It seems about 15 pilots a month are leaving. Dont see any big hiring push anytime soon, especially since we are looking at a net loss of aircraft when the ATR's are retired soon, and we are not currently slated to get anymore aircraft.

Not a very Rosy picture at ASA. But hey, good luck with that, though!

That's not true. The mediator didn't force the two sides back to the table. Our MEC and managment both wrote the mediator and asked for more sessions to get is done. There is progress being made at every session, slow it may be but it's progress.

The feet dragging etc has always been true of the companies lame negotiators way of thinking they are negotiating. Progress, allbeit crap progress, is still happening. Can't figure what this package proposal crap is all about, I thought the object was to TA sections. But what do I or the pilots know.

Yes the pilots are pissed, but the majority of them don't do anything about it or really show it. It annoys the !*&$ out of me when I hear pilots still carrying the company and doing other peoples jobs. Seems like they don't understand the phrase "one call, that's all".

P2P's are having another conference call on tuesday so I should hear more.

If you really want to work for ASA keep trying. I don't have the inside scoop to classes, but there are worse places to be.

 

[Sinca3]

Negotiations

Our MEC and managment both wrote the mediator and asked for more sessions to get is done.

Incorrect......The mediator ask us to negotiate for 6 more sessions. The Union DID NOT request more sessions.........Now, before we were pseudo "parked" by the mediator we told the company and the mediator we were open to more negotiations but never heard a peep from the company!
The mediator called our head negotiator and requested they meet for 6 more sessions so this is where we currently are.
And if you haven't been to the ALPA website to get the latest negotiations briefings then I highly recommend it!!
Same old $hit

 

[blueridge71]

I just saw that ASA is participating in the Climbto350 job fair on April 22 to find FOs. They must be planning on more hiring.

http://www.climbto350.com/aviation-career-fairs.cfm

 

[crjskipper]

Progress was made and even ALPO admitted it Tues, then we heard nothing until last night when they said things were too slow because the company wouldnt ta a matched section yet in case things needed to be traded later. So what. Theres no way this will get done with 3 sessions left if ALPO refuses to back down from the old IP sideletter and requested pay rates.

79 - it takes two sides to reach an agreement. There is no doubt Bob and Co are dragging their feet because they kept our expectations too high for so long. The company dragged their feet just as much as the union for the last three years but things are now different. Face it - if we dont get an agreement we will most likely lose SLC. Sucks for ALPO to sacrifice those guys to end up with the same agreement in six months we could have now.

ps - how long will it take you to throw the cool aid line

pps - guarantee that the mediator will park the pilots, not the company, only hurting the pilot group more.

 

[IHateDaley]

I haven't gotten a class date yet (been waiting since Sep.), but I spoke with DR last week and he said that there is a 99% chance that I'll get a class date within 2 months. So they're probably planning more dates.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I was told differently. Called, wrote, either way both sides were willing to set more dates and the mediator didn't force us to the table. Just because we didn't hear a peep from the company means we were forced? However it happened the MEC and CNC were willing to negotiate more cause more progress had been made in those last sessions than ever before.

Nothing suprises me in the way the company negotiates and yes I get my ALPA emails. All the company has to do is show miniscule progress to keep us at the table. It's BS.

I don't see the a lot of pilots besides me doing much of anything to show the company how pissed we are. Nothing illegal just do your job and only your job and let everything else fall apart.

The MEC and CNC know what the pilot group wants and is not willing to settle for a TA that will for sure get shot down.

 

[Crash Pad]

. If your comback to me is if you dont like it why dont you quit, nice try. I would love to. As soon as I can find another flying job, or in lieu of, another job outside of aviation, I will. This is not worth $35,000/year.

See you can't find a better job. You like this job more than any other offer you have received. Management only has as much power as you give them. Looks like you are willing to give your life.

Lets talk about this "only do your job thing". When I go to work I have one purpose in life and that is getting done with work. I'm not going to sit on the ramp for an extra 45 minutes trying to teach management a lesson. The 45 minutes could get me to an overnight quicker. It could give me time for lunch and a nap when I get back to the ATL. I refuse to have my lifestyle ruined to teach someone in the GO who doesn't give a crap a lesson.

ALPA and there negotiations. Take the skywest contract and rip the cover off of it. Delete SKYW and insert ASA. Sign contract. Done and done. We'll make more money, have a better quality of life, and the merger will go much smoother.

You know why that isn't going to happen. ALPA has to show you they can do way better. So lets watch them whip some sh!t. Oh yeah and if ALPA is successful and we get a Comair style contract, then sweet we are all out of a job. Skywest will have all our flying quicker than you can say Kool Aid. If you think your life sucks now. Wait until your on the bottom of another airlines list or working at home depot.

 

[HoserASA]

P2P's are having another conference call on tuesday so I should hear more.

Actually, it's Monday night at 8pm eastern Go-Around! See ya there!

Hoser

 

[HoserASA]

Pilots aren't leaving because they are happy. Contract will not be settled because pilots are happy. They talk a good game on this board but at the end of the day they don't leave.

Is that you again Chuck Viers, or is this, hell, can't remember your name, the CP in the first office. Can't be BD, or can it? Nah, who cares anyway WTF you are ! You know it all huh Crash, got your pulse on how this pilot group feels.

Hoser

 

["GO AROUND"]

I meant to say I will know more on tuesday. oops

 

[Crash Pad]

Hoser,
Call my bluff. You have applied to (blank). You have been with the company for (blank) years. You don't leave because (blank).

Answer ASA is the best you can do.

 

[HoserASA]

Hoser,
Call my bluff. You have applied to (blank). You have been with the company for (blank) years. You don't leave because (blank).

Answer ASA is the best you can do.

Gosh darn Crash, you're onto me! OK, here we go.

1) I have 2 years left, so I haven't applied anywhere.

2) 16 years

3) see #1

4) ASA best I can do, perhaps, but too late to go elsewhere now isn't it?

5) I have a military retirement, do you Crash, have any kind of pension?

Hoser

 

[Crash Pad]

If I hated my job for two years I would be gone. I guess well done on making it 16 while being unhappy. Good luck on your next two disgruntled years.

Somewhere around year 97 you must have had a shot at the big time. Why didn't you take it? The reason... you are happy. ASA brings you some joy. It may be complaining on this board. It may be holding 15 days off or whatever it is you hold. Maybe it is the travel benefits. At the end of the day you are going to put up with a company you supposedly hate for 18 years.

Pension. Come on my generation is much more savy. We know there will be no pension, no social security, no health care... We take care of ourselves. We must.

 

["GO AROUND"]

What are your answers to your questions?

 

[Crash Pad]

I'm having the time of my life. I barely work. When I am working I fly a couple legs then go get blasted on my overnight. I used to work for bad airline out of Denver. They pissed me off so I left. I suppose I could have grinded it out there for another 14 years but that would have ruined my rock and roll life style.
I know this is a regional. I have stuff out with all the usual suspects. Net Jets, Cathay, Emirates... I dont have my thousand... because ASA has too many happy pilots.
Make no mistake the moment this job isn't fun for me I'm out. I've done it once I can do it again.
OH yeah and I've been at ASA for a year and change. I know once I've been here for 8 years I'll get it... That's just it I don't plan on being here for eight years. If I am here for eight years I will assure I will have more fun in my eight years then most people have in a lifetime.
You guys that have been here for 10+ years explain to me one thing. The stories I hear are all from the bandit and EMB... Somehow you all were having more fun then than you are now. I know the management was worse, the pay was worse, the equipment was worse... Maybe if you all just stop caring so much you could enjoy your job which is 50% of your life.

 

[HoserASA]

If I hated my job for two years I would be gone. I guess well done on making it 16 while being unhappy. Good luck on your next two disgruntled years.

Don't hate my job Crash, and, not disgruntled. Sorry to burst your little bubble there. Just don't respect the way management here treats their employees. Doesn't mean I have 'hate' for anyone Crash.
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Somewhere around year 97 you must have had a shot at the big time. Why didn't you take it? The reason... you are happy. ASA brings you some joy. It may be complaining on this board. It may be holding 15 days off or whatever it is you hold. Maybe it is the travel benefits. At the end of the day you are going to put up with a company you supposedly hate for 18 years.

Had a shot at DAL, like everybody else. Again, didn't think it made economic sense to start all over. The only positive would have been the retirement, but hey, that's gone now so maybe I made the right decision huh.
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Pension. Come on my generation is much more savy. We know there will be no pension, no social security, no health care... We take care of ourselves. We must.

I stated that I already have a pension, have since 1988 Crash. Read the response will you. And, quaranteed healthcare couresty of taxpayers like you Crash. And I'll have my SS too. Plus my ASA 401K, my wife's 401K, IRAs, and rental properties, so I'm set Crash. Don't worry about me, which I know you won't. Have a good one, junior.

Hoser

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

You may not want to come here. With DAL about to strike, and ASA negtiations going nowhere, be forewarned!

Hoser

Delta won't strike and our negotiations are moving forward. Take your doom and gloom somewhere else.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

I agree with a lot of what 79%N1 said. I disagree that the NMB won't allow a strike. I don't see any reason why they won't at some point.

But, yeah, ASA is not a great place to work. If you have never worked anywhere with a decent contract, maybe it looks okay. By the same token, Mesa looks good to people who don't know any better (although I'm defnitely not saying that ASA is as bad a Mesa).

I would rather have more job security with an average contract, then less security and the best contract. You guys at ACA, along with Comair, Air Whisky, Alleghany, and Piedmont had better contracts. In the end, it resulted in shrinking and/or elimination. What good is the best contract if you just watch your flying go the lower bidders?

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

Incorrect......The mediator ask us to negotiate for 6 more sessions. The Union DID NOT request more sessions.........Now, before we were pseudo "parked" by the mediator we told the company and the mediator we were open to more negotiations but never heard a peep from the company!
The mediator called our head negotiator and requested they meet for 6 more sessions so this is where we currently are.
And if you haven't been to the ALPA website to get the latest negotiations briefings then I highly recommend it!!
Same old $hit

Sounds like the ALPA experts can't even get the story straight. Are you all aware of the fact that the company and the MEC have agreed to meet next week without the mediator in order to expedite the process. Sounds like progress is being made.

 

[HoserASA]

Sounds like the ALPA experts can't even get the story straight. Are you all aware of the fact that the company and the MEC have agreed to meet next week without the mediator in order to expedite the process. Sounds like progress is being made.

Haven't heard that Voice. The last P2P message I received, yesterday morning, only mentions the sessions scheduled for April19-21. Doesn't mean what you say isn't so. If what you say is true, that's great. Hopefully the company will get serious and get this done. We'll see.

Hoser

 

["GO AROUND"]

Mediator or no mediator doesn't change much. If they get more done without that will be suprising, but it can't be much worse.

Who's an expert? Never claimed to be nor has anyone else on here. Voice, you are making predictions just like everyone else. Putz.

Opinions and predictions is all anyone has on here.

 

[www.]

1. Does anyone know if the four classes that ASA announced for attrition is filled to capacity? Has anyone hear ASA starting new classes soon?

2. When is the "contract negotiations" going to be completed with ASA?

1. Instead of asking line pilots at ASA why don't you call the people that know. Danny Robertson 404-766-1400.
2. Don't worry about it.