Application Fees? wtf

[ib14flying]

What's up with airlines charging application processing fees now? Is this a way for airlines to try and make a quick buck off someone since they're going broke? I just paid Bay State Psychological Associates $38 to apply to Great Lakes, now Colgan wants it too. Is there any way to pay a one time fee or do I have to shell out the dough for each airline?

 

[ib14flying]

Guess I should do more research before I post.. I just read "Colgan update for those who care" and it helped answer my question.

Sorry folks..

 

[metrodriver]

shuttle America (also owned by bay state phy. ass) $30.-.
Fed ex $50.-
Paramount jet $45.-
Holland Cananda line
AA made $1million a year of applicants! (on a $100.-fee), wonder how much fedex is getting now.

I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. It's a part of running a business. No other industry has something like that, and I cannot afford it from my unemployment check. It's a thing that suddenly pops up whenever times are bad and applicants plenty. I have less of a problem with paying a fee after you get an interview or job offer, kind a like a headhunters fee.
Oh yeah I forgot all the websites:
climb to 350 12.95/month
AEPS 12.-/month
Airinc 140+ /year and updates for a handful of companies
and a whole bunch of others

Am I the only who has the feeling that you got to be rich just to even start looking for a job that will pay you peanuts???

 

[Redtailer]

When times are good and pilots are scarce (i.e. mid to late 90's) you have the option of not applying to a carrier that does not have the fees. Before about 1995 almost all of the carriers had fees, but dropped them to attract more pilots. This is nothing new. Things are slowly going back to the way they were.

IMHO, you should pay the fees now and get a job where you want because the next step is not too far away. PAY FOR TRAINING!!!

Ask anyone who have been through the commuters before '97 and they will tell you. Think $75 is bad, try paying $10,000.
It's only a matter of time before they start charging again.

Later.

 

[Palerider957]

PFT......a very scary thought...

 

[AZaviator]

QUOTE]I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. It's a part of running a business. No other industry has something like that, and I cannot afford it from my unemployment check. It's a thing that suddenly pops up whenever times are bad and applicants plenty. I have less of a problem with paying a fee after you get an interview or job offer, kind a like a headhunters fee. [/QUOTE]

I think Metrodriver's comments were right on. Couldn't have said it better myself. Why pay an app fee for a $14-16k/yr job? Were does that money go? If it goes toward your background check after you are hired, then you shouldn't be charged an app fee until you are hired. Or, better yet, if it costs so much for an airline to do your background check, then why don't they just take it out of your first paycheck?? OH wait, that can't happen because most airlines don't pay you during training anymore.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Ask anyone who have been through the commuters before '97 and they will tell you. Think $75 is bad, try paying $10,000.
It's only a matter of time before they start charging again.

Later.

They may and might actually get the money from some more chumps. The difference is this time many/ most of the majors are on the way down and in bankruptcy or heading that way. The big payoff is just not there this time.

 

[Airpiraterob]

bay state psychological

so theres more and more of these regionals using the bay state psychological company.

i have to pay$38 each time i apply. to each place! same test! unless i know what im doing wrong or right on the test i cant rationalize spending that money. money going to the same God D**NED company each time? wait....why not take the test once with them and let the airline get the results FROM them....oh wait. thats too easy for me the applicant!...how about this...

Is there a doctor in the house with the gouge for this bay state phy. test? the 'most correct' answers? i dont know if i agree or disagree with the fact that "artistic patterns greatly interest me". DEPENDS ON THE PATTERN NOW DOSENT IT?!?!?!? christ! i dont care of the captain or first officer next to me agrees or disagrees with the fact that "he personally finds himself more comfortable in groups than alone at home". as long as he knows how to do his EFFIN JOB the right way. i dont care. If he can fly the ILS like nobodys business, then he can prefer to be like anything he d*mned well pleases for all i care.

they say to remain indifferent or neutral when taking the personality test. well, Colgan's test has no middle indifferent answer. if i truely am indifferent then im forced to pick an emotionally dealing response that suddenly became an answer thats wrong either way for my personality type. so how can they have an accurate response? they CANT! and theres more people like that than just me....althought an argument can be made that im a mutant.

 

[Publishers]

Sad

While it is a sad state of affairs, there is more to it than meets the eye. Many of the carriers are getting and handling many more resumes than they are equipped to handle. A good portion o fthese are unsolicited. In short, they have to handle all applications in a certain manner regardless of whether or not they are hiring

Yes there are a few cases where they just want the money, but companies like FEDEX and others charged the fee to discourage applications.

The cost of hjiring someone today with fingerprints, background checks, drug and alcohol testing assures you that this will continue.

You ar eright that other industries do not have these things, but, others withthe exception of law enforcement do not require what aviation does.

 

[pilotyip]

cost of doing business

Thanks for thoughtful insight on application fees, with all of your experience in business; you may more fully understand this more than the average pilot. Recruiting costs are a burden to all companies, both in man-hours to administer and actual cost of interviewing non-qualified individuals, and our company is no different. We are in a tuff business climate right now and have to everything we can do to control costs, so we can pay our pilots more. Every one of our pilots is getting pay raises now. Business people know about that stuff. We have contracted to an outside company, HRPQ, to do our screening for us, much like we do for engine overhauls, wet ditching, etc. If you have ever run your own business, you will understand this. HRPQ is in business to make money; they charge a fee for that service, the money does not go to us. I assume you are a pilot since you visited this web site. We do not hire pilots at USA Jet, we hire freight loaders (read F/O) and trip expediters (read Capt.), who fly for free between freight loading/unloading points. We need to know the personality make up of the person we are interviewing prior to bringing them to YIP. We must be somewhat successful; we have lots of very qualified potential pilots in our pool waiting for class dates. Our pilot turnover is near zero and our loaders and expediters are the best trained and amongst the highest paid in our sector of the industry. In past years UAL, AA, and other charged up to $100 for an application fee. Would you have applied there? Or is it the principal of it all that a small company would charge a fee. As a side note I think the fee of $38 for every company is not right and we are working with HRPQ do make this better.

 

[jergar999]

Hypothetical

Let's just say that I was institutionalized a short time ago for some unpleasantness and some of the team of psychological professionals charged with my care were contracted workers from Bay State. Are these going to be the same people who do my background check, now that everywhere I want to work uses them?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: cost of doing business

Recruiting costs are a burden to all companies, both in man-hours to administer and actual cost of interviewing non-qualified individuals, and our company is no different. We have contracted to an outside company, HRPQ, to do our screening for us, much like we do for engine overhauls, wet ditching, etc.

Application fees are a sign of the current state of the used pilot market. Too many pilots/too few jobs available=recruiting done at pilots expense (pilots compete for jobs). Too many jobs/too few pilots= recruiting at the companies expense (companies compete for pilots). It's not any more complicated than that. Ziggy1

 

[I.P. Freley]

Just to satisfy my curiousity...

"I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. "

Since plunking down $30 to pay an outside firm to sift through the thousands of resumes a company has been dealing with is "scandalous," and will keep you from applying to a company that uses that method, I have to ask...

What about paying for your own hotel room the night before the interview at companies that want you to be there early for the interview process (as I did at least three times)? Would you be willing to pay for that? Or is that unacceptable as well?

The companies that wanted me there at 8am didn't have app fees but I spent more than $30 per night in each hotel. I didn't look at it as a screw job, just part of the costs of job hunting... Right up there with an appropriate suit, dry cleaning, parking at the airport when I flew off to an interview (or gas when I DROVE to an interview), a briefcase, etc.

 

[NEDude]

"I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. "


Quite frankly, I don't think any of the airlines care. If you don't apply, there is one less application they have to deal with.

Wanting an application fee is nothing abnormal. Many, if not most, of the major airlines want application fees as well. And theirs run in the $100-$200 range. As I.P. Freely said, it is part of the cost of doing business.

 

[metrodriver]

When you get called for an interview at least there is interest from the company, and paying for your hotel has been accepted in more industries than just aviation.
Yip pilot, you guys have offered jobs to me before, and some of your pilots want me there also, so I'm qualified I guess. What has held me back is living in the ghetto in YIP for the 15 min call, and the app fee.
btw, do the freightloaders get to drive the expedition machine once in a while? Why don't you use AEPS for the background check? at least a lot more companies are using them and as a job hunting pilot you have a job search board, something bay state doesn't have.
I just have a problem spending hundreds (maybe soon thousands) of dollars on something (app fee)that you don't know the outcome of (call for interview). That's called gambling

 

[I.P. Freley]

The real gamble was using AEPS for background checks... They just declared bankruptcy.

Hopefully for you, you didn't send them any money. If so, you likely aren't getting it back.

In any case, as NEDude said, perhaps part of it is simply a gauge to see if you really want to be interviewed, or if you really want the job. I know, from my perspective, that I papered the world with resumes after my 9/11-forced vacation began, and several of the companies I sent my stuff to were places I would never want to work unless it was an absolute last resort ( turned down a few interviews from some of the companies that called me). Now... Imagine a few thousand of those sitting on the desk at a small company (like Shuttle America), and you might have an idea of the size of the burden. It's easier to let an outside firm do the sifting, getting rid of the useless resumes from people who don't meet the published mins, for instance, and then just invite in the people that make it through the filter.

Seems possible that the very point of an application fee is to discourage people who don't want the job from wasting everyone's time, their own included. And at least in the case of yourself, metrodriver, it's serving one of the possible purposes... If you aren't really interested, then you won't pay the fee, and the job can be offered to someone who actually wants it. Not a reflection on you or anything, but it might possibly keep out the people who want A job and allow in people who want THIS job.

Just a theory.

 

[Jetsnake]

Air Wisconsin charge's a $50.00 fee.
But at least they wait till your interviewed,
that's more dignified from what I see going on
out there.

 

[I.P. Freley]

So is it dignified for a major to have an application fee, or is it only undignified if it's a regional? Is it below your dignity to pay a fee to apply to FedEx? What about the app fee for American (or Eagle for that matter) in years past? Or below your dignity to pay for the type rating to get on at Southwest (as opposed to simply being too broke to pay for it)?

Dignity has nothing to do with it. If you don't want the job, then you don't apply. Don't tell me that $30 is such a nuisance that it would keep you from applying for a job that you really want... Very small fee all things considered... And the company doesn't even get any of that money, it goes to the screening outfit.

Don't see how it's okay for AirWis to charge you when you show up, but undignified to simply submit the application in the first place. A gamble, sure, but less than you would pay for a spirited night on the town.

Real simple. If you are balking at a fee, then don't pay it and find another job. There are enough people around who will be willing to pay. Again, not a reflection on YOU, but I don't understand how this is so outrageous to some people, unless you know nothing about what this industry was like as recent as four or five years ago and beyond. I worked for a company that had a screening process lorded over by FSI, and THAT was something well north of $200, including a sim ride, written tests, etc... Thankfully I applied AFTER they stopped charging for that. If they had still insisted upon making us pay for it, I might not have bothered applying... But that's the process, I guess. If I was dying to have the job, I would have paid for it and run the risk of washing out of the screening process.

This doesn't even get into the once-prevalent PFT issue. There are many pilots out there who spent years paying off their training costs... I know some of them and I wouldn't want to be in their financial shoes for a second.

Anyway, thirty bucks is thirty bucks. A bottle of good Scotch or possibly a new job? Your choice.

 

[Jetsnake]

I've payed many of fee's in the past for
airline applications. It's just the way it was and is.
I accepted it and swallowed it, probably just like your
boyfriend does for you.

I was just saying what is the truth. AWAC doesn't
charge until you interview. I rather think that is
commendable considering their the only privately
owned and operated 121 carrier in the United States;
Perhaps the world, that is still making money for now.

And for my comments above, I'm guessing your a female,
only my ex wife bitched about trival things like this...

Jetsnake

 

[scubabri]

But this isn't about one application fee... If 100 places charged on average 40 bux for an application, that's $4000. Quite honestly, when it all comes down to it, I pay one place $40, I am pretty much just throwing my money away, just because of the odds. If I apply to 100 places, I am spending $4000 to increase my odds of getting that job, and, could be throwing my money away.

Do the math... for me, it's not about whether or not I buy a application or a bottle of whisky, it's a matter of throwing money away or spending it on food, or gas, or phone bill.

Personally, I think that recruiting for employees is a direct cost of doing business and is no different than any other company. There are computer based resume scanners, and online applications that can weed out the applications that don't meet minimums.

My personal opinion is that this is just an effort for a cash strapped industry to make money off of people. It's wrong, but it's reality and for me, all it does is make my job search harder, because I just can't afford to apply for a job, because I don't have a job.

There is just something wrong about this.


Brian

 

[I.P. Freley]

Nice try on the flamebait, Jetsnake.

Your unfortunate "swallowing" comment quite aside, I am not the one who is bitching about anything... Trivial or not.

If it's this trivial, why do you feel the need to escalate into silly insults? Indeed, why are you in this thread at all?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

A LOT of companies charge application fees of one kind or another.

This is common in a wide variety of industries and companies, not just aviation.

The organizations with the most app fees that I can think of is higher education. Colleges/Universities have fees, to help cover their costs. Should your kid not go to college because she/he has to pay an application fee?

Cliff
GRB

 

[CRJ puppy]

PLEASE:

I URGENTLY request that all of you who are pee'd off by application fees DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT apply for a job at that company! Do NOT pay the application fee!

Now that I shall be furloughed soon I need to increase my chances of getting another job. The fewer of you that apply, the greater my chances.

Thank you all in advance.

 

[bobbysamd]

If you want to dance to the music, you must pay the piper . . .

I appreciate Yip's comments about application fees, to a point. However, I always thought that background checks, recruiting costs, etc., were a cost of doing business, are expensed out come financial statement time, and are factored into pax and/or freight fares. Accordingly, I believe that app fees are a cash cow for at least one or two regionals, especially those which charge $50 to apply (I complained about $15 app fees thirteen years ago.).

I also submit that only the applicants whom the companies intend to interview are sent for background checks. Few are interviewed compared to the number who apply, and pay. I would also submit that the actual cost of these background checks, screenings, etc. is much less than the app fee. Therefore, profit is made, especially on those thousands of applicants who will never be brought in for interviews.

Having said all that, what are you going to do? Not apply? Of course, app fees are wrong, but if you do not apply to companies who charge them you just might be cutting your nose to spite your face. Besides, app fees are tax-deductable if you itemize.

Good luck with your job search.

 

[Airpiraterob]

but seriously folks.....

putting aside weather or not the personality test makes a difference...i mean...if my captain or first officer would agree or disagree with being a bowl of jello instead of ......oh....good god im starting to ramble again...anyway

realistic concerns going forth. concider this one from a questionable and fictional as yet to have started this operator...yes pay for concideration online to see if we like the way your brain is wired, then pay for the resume application processing fee to submit your resume online after the test, then pay for interview fee on top of the hotel stay and travel to get there, then pay for training after they say you got a job if youre RICH ENOUGH!...(or at least can get a loan or cosigner.) . it could be here soon! just you wait! i really shouldn't be giving out ideas like this tho.

MUCHO ARGUABLOSO:

true, theres enormous piles of resumes on the desks of not just airlines and box haulers. but EVERYONE. how do they control that? hire someone to deal and diseminate extensively with that big pile only. otherwise they would fall so far behind normally. how do they recover that expenditure to solve the problem of resumes? recovering the cost of all this manpower? they don't unless they create another source of income for that purpose. AH-HAH! pay for concideration online. that way they dont even need to take alot of phone calls on the subject. another side benefit is they LIMIT how many applicants there are cause some are just opposed to or dont want to pay for concideration online. hmm. nice. good result. they WONT CARE if youre opposed to it. they still get enough resmues and good qualified candidates. the fee pays the personality test fees and pays for the people to organize and file the paperwork of the people that qualify to be potentially interviewed soon. so its not just paperwork its lookin at the stuff to see if these people are worth seeing in person. i understand this and actualyl sounds like a good idea. however, there needs to be a better way thats more cost effective for everyone involved, including the applicant. not everyone can afford to do this very many times in a week. anyone know the ticker symbol for Bay State? Bay State sounds like one of those companies that people bill through to buy online porno.

now, enter me. poor pilot. near-broke trying to make enough money till i can fly again. I CANT AFFORD very many of these online fees! "im working this third job just to pay for all the fees online" How many a month will i have to do? i did 50 resumes in two weeks. imagine, before long it will be 50 online applications in that ammount of time? (50x$35=CHA CHING!!) and how do i know if it was successful if my computer disconnected cause i can only afford the cheap dialup not DSL? do i have to go pay for it again cause it screwed up somewhere? how do i know they actually got it? all it takes is one simple mistake and a file gets erased on their end by accident...oh darn. i dont see my paper resume going blank in their file cabinets. it might get corrupted but its still legeble. unlike a corrupted resume data file.

so i say, this is the future! and to think they called it the boogey-man when we were little! its gonna come out of the dark and get you!

WE have no choice. If we want to fly for a good company we will have to pay for these fees. where do all of the resumes go? to the best companies. how do you explain everyone wanting to go to Southwest Airlines? well...they changed too. its not optional anymore...to interview now their application fee is a 737 TYPE RATING! suck up that one time fee.

 

[Finch]

Blame the FAA

You know, none of us would even be talking about "screening fees" if the FAA properly screened people as part of the commercial application. Why are they willing to print a pilot license to anyone? Do they care about the quality of applicants?

No, they just want their fees too.......

Sad.

 

[metrodriver]

IP Freley, I happen to be one of those people that's still stuck with enormous cost from flight training (I think you can buy 2 hummers for it). Why? because the jobs I had were the ones that pay burgerflipper salaries.If you see my profile, I'm out of a job. The first one that paid well, but for a very short time. My unemployment pays just enough for rent, not even the regular bills (since its based on the lousy job I had before the 727 deal). I did join AEPS, becuase a company that hired me did the background check through them, they had a jobsearch page and organized jobfairs and had an extensive database regarding companies They might be bankrupt, but the website is still up and jobpostings keep coming (very slowly though). I never send the check to Fedex or AA (they generated $1million a year with the ap fee). I don't know what AA was looking for. I know no one at any of the companies I flew for that got hired there, except several females.
A lot of interviews are the result from someone walking in your resume, very often bypassing the normal app proces. It happened to me at a carrier that had an app fee. They never asked for it. So if you have a group of 20 interviewees, 18 with recommendations, and 2 out of the stack of resumes (just happened to be the last 2 that came in) then everyone else is acting as a cash cow. And since there are so many resumes, most of them go straight in the trash. If someone is needed, just wait for the next bunch to roll of the fax.The sad thing is that most of the companies that ask for an app fee are ones with very low pay, the exception being the YIPpilot company (and yes I would love to work for you if I could live away from the ghetto), and air whiskey

 

[ERJpusher]

By saying "hummers", do you mean the $100,000 all terrain vehicles, or the thing that lady offered me on the street in NYC last week?

Because $20 doesn't seem like a lot of money to owe for flight training.

 

[ERJpusher]

Back to the subject...

I wonder if these application fees are tax deductible. I'm sure there is a loophole somewhere.

My views on application fees are simple:

1. Pay the fee and have a chance at the job, or
2. Don't pay the fee and have no chance at the job

Your choice.

 

[ACWild]

Don't see how it's okay for AirWis to charge you when you show up, but undignified to simply submit the application in the first place.

Although I'm strongly against app fees, Air Wis seems to be doing the right thing. I applied to SkyWest twice, ('89 and '90), paying $15 per application. After paying the second time, I found out that they won't hire anyone from the east coast. This was quoted from the HR guy. Thanks alot.

When I flew for Mesa, I grossed 9K. I applied to United and found out that they wanted $50 for their application fee, but it was waivable for "financial hardship." After applying and trying to waive the fee, United wrote back and said I wasn't qualified to waive the fee because I was employed. If anyone wants to tell me that I didn't want the job at United bad enough, I will gladly argue with you. I was barely able to pay rent. Thank god for my crashpad roomates who helped me out when Mesa screwed up my paychecks. If United guaranteed an interview, then I would have given it more consideration. Basically, I couldn't even afford one application fee, let alone countless others.

For those of you who are heavily financed by mom and pop, congratulations to you, but there are alot of us out there who don't have that financial lifeline. Some of us have families to support too. It's disgusting how alot of qualified pilots aren't going to be able to apply while others with money get the shot.

I know for a fact that many of these companies use interns to do alot of the application sifting. Guess how much they get paid... NOTHING!

Oh, by the way, application fees are tax deductable.