Application Fees? wtf

[ib14flying]

What's up with airlines charging application processing fees now? Is this a way for airlines to try and make a quick buck off someone since they're going broke? I just paid Bay State Psychological Associates $38 to apply to Great Lakes, now Colgan wants it too. Is there any way to pay a one time fee or do I have to shell out the dough for each airline?

 

[ib14flying]

Guess I should do more research before I post.. I just read "Colgan update for those who care" and it helped answer my question.

Sorry folks..

 

[metrodriver]

shuttle America (also owned by bay state phy. ass) $30.-.
Fed ex $50.-
Paramount jet $45.-
Holland Cananda line
AA made $1million a year of applicants! (on a $100.-fee), wonder how much fedex is getting now.

I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. It's a part of running a business. No other industry has something like that, and I cannot afford it from my unemployment check. It's a thing that suddenly pops up whenever times are bad and applicants plenty. I have less of a problem with paying a fee after you get an interview or job offer, kind a like a headhunters fee.
Oh yeah I forgot all the websites:
climb to 350 12.95/month
AEPS 12.-/month
Airinc 140+ /year and updates for a handful of companies
and a whole bunch of others

Am I the only who has the feeling that you got to be rich just to even start looking for a job that will pay you peanuts???

 

[Redtailer]

When times are good and pilots are scarce (i.e. mid to late 90's) you have the option of not applying to a carrier that does not have the fees. Before about 1995 almost all of the carriers had fees, but dropped them to attract more pilots. This is nothing new. Things are slowly going back to the way they were.

IMHO, you should pay the fees now and get a job where you want because the next step is not too far away. PAY FOR TRAINING!!!

Ask anyone who have been through the commuters before '97 and they will tell you. Think $75 is bad, try paying $10,000.
It's only a matter of time before they start charging again.

Later.

 

[Palerider957]

PFT......a very scary thought...

 

[AZaviator]

QUOTE]I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. It's a part of running a business. No other industry has something like that, and I cannot afford it from my unemployment check. It's a thing that suddenly pops up whenever times are bad and applicants plenty. I have less of a problem with paying a fee after you get an interview or job offer, kind a like a headhunters fee. [/QUOTE]

I think Metrodriver's comments were right on. Couldn't have said it better myself. Why pay an app fee for a $14-16k/yr job? Were does that money go? If it goes toward your background check after you are hired, then you shouldn't be charged an app fee until you are hired. Or, better yet, if it costs so much for an airline to do your background check, then why don't they just take it out of your first paycheck?? OH wait, that can't happen because most airlines don't pay you during training anymore.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Ask anyone who have been through the commuters before '97 and they will tell you. Think $75 is bad, try paying $10,000.
It's only a matter of time before they start charging again.

Later.

They may and might actually get the money from some more chumps. The difference is this time many/ most of the majors are on the way down and in bankruptcy or heading that way. The big payoff is just not there this time.

 

[Airpiraterob]

bay state psychological

so theres more and more of these regionals using the bay state psychological company.

i have to pay$38 each time i apply. to each place! same test! unless i know what im doing wrong or right on the test i cant rationalize spending that money. money going to the same God D**NED company each time? wait....why not take the test once with them and let the airline get the results FROM them....oh wait. thats too easy for me the applicant!...how about this...

Is there a doctor in the house with the gouge for this bay state phy. test? the 'most correct' answers? i dont know if i agree or disagree with the fact that "artistic patterns greatly interest me". DEPENDS ON THE PATTERN NOW DOSENT IT?!?!?!? christ! i dont care of the captain or first officer next to me agrees or disagrees with the fact that "he personally finds himself more comfortable in groups than alone at home". as long as he knows how to do his EFFIN JOB the right way. i dont care. If he can fly the ILS like nobodys business, then he can prefer to be like anything he d*mned well pleases for all i care.

they say to remain indifferent or neutral when taking the personality test. well, Colgan's test has no middle indifferent answer. if i truely am indifferent then im forced to pick an emotionally dealing response that suddenly became an answer thats wrong either way for my personality type. so how can they have an accurate response? they CANT! and theres more people like that than just me....althought an argument can be made that im a mutant.

 

[Publishers]

Sad

While it is a sad state of affairs, there is more to it than meets the eye. Many of the carriers are getting and handling many more resumes than they are equipped to handle. A good portion o fthese are unsolicited. In short, they have to handle all applications in a certain manner regardless of whether or not they are hiring

Yes there are a few cases where they just want the money, but companies like FEDEX and others charged the fee to discourage applications.

The cost of hjiring someone today with fingerprints, background checks, drug and alcohol testing assures you that this will continue.

You ar eright that other industries do not have these things, but, others withthe exception of law enforcement do not require what aviation does.

 

[pilotyip]

cost of doing business

Thanks for thoughtful insight on application fees, with all of your experience in business; you may more fully understand this more than the average pilot. Recruiting costs are a burden to all companies, both in man-hours to administer and actual cost of interviewing non-qualified individuals, and our company is no different. We are in a tuff business climate right now and have to everything we can do to control costs, so we can pay our pilots more. Every one of our pilots is getting pay raises now. Business people know about that stuff. We have contracted to an outside company, HRPQ, to do our screening for us, much like we do for engine overhauls, wet ditching, etc. If you have ever run your own business, you will understand this. HRPQ is in business to make money; they charge a fee for that service, the money does not go to us. I assume you are a pilot since you visited this web site. We do not hire pilots at USA Jet, we hire freight loaders (read F/O) and trip expediters (read Capt.), who fly for free between freight loading/unloading points. We need to know the personality make up of the person we are interviewing prior to bringing them to YIP. We must be somewhat successful; we have lots of very qualified potential pilots in our pool waiting for class dates. Our pilot turnover is near zero and our loaders and expediters are the best trained and amongst the highest paid in our sector of the industry. In past years UAL, AA, and other charged up to $100 for an application fee. Would you have applied there? Or is it the principal of it all that a small company would charge a fee. As a side note I think the fee of $38 for every company is not right and we are working with HRPQ do make this better.

 

[jergar999]

Hypothetical

Let's just say that I was institutionalized a short time ago for some unpleasantness and some of the team of psychological professionals charged with my care were contracted workers from Bay State. Are these going to be the same people who do my background check, now that everywhere I want to work uses them?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: cost of doing business

Recruiting costs are a burden to all companies, both in man-hours to administer and actual cost of interviewing non-qualified individuals, and our company is no different. We have contracted to an outside company, HRPQ, to do our screening for us, much like we do for engine overhauls, wet ditching, etc.

Application fees are a sign of the current state of the used pilot market. Too many pilots/too few jobs available=recruiting done at pilots expense (pilots compete for jobs). Too many jobs/too few pilots= recruiting at the companies expense (companies compete for pilots). It's not any more complicated than that. Ziggy1

 

[I.P. Freley]

Just to satisfy my curiousity...

"I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. "

Since plunking down $30 to pay an outside firm to sift through the thousands of resumes a company has been dealing with is "scandalous," and will keep you from applying to a company that uses that method, I have to ask...

What about paying for your own hotel room the night before the interview at companies that want you to be there early for the interview process (as I did at least three times)? Would you be willing to pay for that? Or is that unacceptable as well?

The companies that wanted me there at 8am didn't have app fees but I spent more than $30 per night in each hotel. I didn't look at it as a screw job, just part of the costs of job hunting... Right up there with an appropriate suit, dry cleaning, parking at the airport when I flew off to an interview (or gas when I DROVE to an interview), a briefcase, etc.

 

[NEDude]

"I will not apply for any company that requires an application fee, I think it's even more scandalous than pft. "


Quite frankly, I don't think any of the airlines care. If you don't apply, there is one less application they have to deal with.

Wanting an application fee is nothing abnormal. Many, if not most, of the major airlines want application fees as well. And theirs run in the $100-$200 range. As I.P. Freely said, it is part of the cost of doing business.

 

[metrodriver]

When you get called for an interview at least there is interest from the company, and paying for your hotel has been accepted in more industries than just aviation.
Yip pilot, you guys have offered jobs to me before, and some of your pilots want me there also, so I'm qualified I guess. What has held me back is living in the ghetto in YIP for the 15 min call, and the app fee.
btw, do the freightloaders get to drive the expedition machine once in a while? Why don't you use AEPS for the background check? at least a lot more companies are using them and as a job hunting pilot you have a job search board, something bay state doesn't have.
I just have a problem spending hundreds (maybe soon thousands) of dollars on something (app fee)that you don't know the outcome of (call for interview). That's called gambling

 

[I.P. Freley]

The real gamble was using AEPS for background checks... They just declared bankruptcy.

Hopefully for you, you didn't send them any money. If so, you likely aren't getting it back.

In any case, as NEDude said, perhaps part of it is simply a gauge to see if you really want to be interviewed, or if you really want the job. I know, from my perspective, that I papered the world with resumes after my 9/11-forced vacation began, and several of the companies I sent my stuff to were places I would never want to work unless it was an absolute last resort ( turned down a few interviews from some of the companies that called me). Now... Imagine a few thousand of those sitting on the desk at a small company (like Shuttle America), and you might have an idea of the size of the burden. It's easier to let an outside firm do the sifting, getting rid of the useless resumes from people who don't meet the published mins, for instance, and then just invite in the people that make it through the filter.

Seems possible that the very point of an application fee is to discourage people who don't want the job from wasting everyone's time, their own included. And at least in the case of yourself, metrodriver, it's serving one of the possible purposes... If you aren't really interested, then you won't pay the fee, and the job can be offered to someone who actually wants it. Not a reflection on you or anything, but it might possibly keep out the people who want A job and allow in people who want THIS job.

Just a theory.

 

[Jetsnake]

Air Wisconsin charge's a $50.00 fee.
But at least they wait till your interviewed,
that's more dignified from what I see going on
out there.

 

[I.P. Freley]

So is it dignified for a major to have an application fee, or is it only undignified if it's a regional? Is it below your dignity to pay a fee to apply to FedEx? What about the app fee for American (or Eagle for that matter) in years past? Or below your dignity to pay for the type rating to get on at Southwest (as opposed to simply being too broke to pay for it)?

Dignity has nothing to do with it. If you don't want the job, then you don't apply. Don't tell me that $30 is such a nuisance that it would keep you from applying for a job that you really want... Very small fee all things considered... And the company doesn't even get any of that money, it goes to the screening outfit.

Don't see how it's okay for AirWis to charge you when you show up, but undignified to simply submit the application in the first place. A gamble, sure, but less than you would pay for a spirited night on the town.

Real simple. If you are balking at a fee, then don't pay it and find another job. There are enough people around who will be willing to pay. Again, not a reflection on YOU, but I don't understand how this is so outrageous to some people, unless you know nothing about what this industry was like as recent as four or five years ago and beyond. I worked for a company that had a screening process lorded over by FSI, and THAT was something well north of $200, including a sim ride, written tests, etc... Thankfully I applied AFTER they stopped charging for that. If they had still insisted upon making us pay for it, I might not have bothered applying... But that's the process, I guess. If I was dying to have the job, I would have paid for it and run the risk of washing out of the screening process.

This doesn't even get into the once-prevalent PFT issue. There are many pilots out there who spent years paying off their training costs... I know some of them and I wouldn't want to be in their financial shoes for a second.

Anyway, thirty bucks is thirty bucks. A bottle of good Scotch or possibly a new job? Your choice.

 

[Jetsnake]

I've payed many of fee's in the past for
airline applications. It's just the way it was and is.
I accepted it and swallowed it, probably just like your
boyfriend does for you.

I was just saying what is the truth. AWAC doesn't
charge until you interview. I rather think that is
commendable considering their the only privately
owned and operated 121 carrier in the United States;
Perhaps the world, that is still making money for now.

And for my comments above, I'm guessing your a female,
only my ex wife bitched about trival things like this...

Jetsnake

 

[scubabri]

But this isn't about one application fee... If 100 places charged on average 40 bux for an application, that's $4000. Quite honestly, when it all comes down to it, I pay one place $40, I am pretty much just throwing my money away, just because of the odds. If I apply to 100 places, I am spending $4000 to increase my odds of getting that job, and, could be throwing my money away.

Do the math... for me, it's not about whether or not I buy a application or a bottle of whisky, it's a matter of throwing money away or spending it on food, or gas, or phone bill.

Personally, I think that recruiting for employees is a direct cost of doing business and is no different than any other company. There are computer based resume scanners, and online applications that can weed out the applications that don't meet minimums.

My personal opinion is that this is just an effort for a cash strapped industry to make money off of people. It's wrong, but it's reality and for me, all it does is make my job search harder, because I just can't afford to apply for a job, because I don't have a job.

There is just something wrong about this.


Brian