APC pay Spirit?

[Monster Buck]

Those have to be wrong. They just went out on strike and then signed a brand new contract, right? I was just comparing our 319 scales for me at Delta year 3, $93/hr and spirits new contract is at $66? Are those the old ones or the new contract. That can't be what they came off strike for. Third year rj pilots at jetblue make more than that.

 

[livintheredream]

Yup those are them. No way would I have come back for that. They are pretty much Virgin America rates and they don't have a union......Now lets start walking at Airtran.

 

[kwick]

With the fairly decent yearly
Increases, that 3 yr A320 FO will
Be making $109hr in year ten
With a 72 hr/mo guarantee.

More likely, He will be making
$160/hr, which is more than
A present 10 yr Delta 320 Capt.

A320 Capt pay tops out at $185/hr

 

[pilot772]

I think there are several date of signing pay raises for the first 3-5 years in their new contract.

I.e
2nd year 61 dos
2nd year 65 dos +1 years
2nd year 70 dos +2 years


NO idea what the actual numbers are just using those as an example

found the rates posted in another thread

Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4
1 64.65 64.65 65.94 99.62 101.62
2 96.64 96.64 98.57 119.49 121.88
3 104.46 104.46 106.55 124.04 126.52
4 108.14 108.14 110.30 128.78 131.35
5 115.51 115.51 117.82 133.68 136.35
6 117.65 117.65 120.00 138.78 141.56
7 119.74 119.74 122.13 143.73 146.60
8 133.68 139.16 141.94 147.73 150.68
9 135.69 142.27 145.12 152.15 155.20
10 137.73 145.44 148.35 156.72 159.86
11 140.53 149.10 152.08 161.43 164.65
12 143.30 152.84 155.90 166.27 169.60
13 146.09 156.61 159.74 171.25 174.67
14 148.90 160.44 163.65 176.40 179.93
15 151.67 164.33 167.62 181.68 185.32

First Officer Pay Rates
Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4
1 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50
2 61.31 66.22 67.54 70.63 72.05
3 66.38 71.69 73.12 76.21 77.73
4 71.39 77.10 78.65 82.22 83.86
5 76.35 82.45 84.10 88.19 89.96
6 78.77 85.07 86.77 93.57 95.44
7 80.77 87.23 88.98 97.97 99.93
8 82.60 89.21 90.99 101.16 103.19
9 83.19 89.85 91.64 104.13 106.21
10 84.22 90.96 92.78 107.13 109.27

 

[Monster Buck]

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to compare total contracts. that is way more than my intent. Also every contract has raises each year. Also people need to stop saying "yah but our projection is to make captain in year blah blah blah, or a delta a pilot in year ten wouldn't be on the 319 he would be a whale fo....blah blah blah, as we have seen over the last decade those projections are not worth a hill of beans anywhere. rates are rates, if the music stops in growth as it has those are the rates you get. if those are the real new contract rates for a pilot group that actually left on strike...omg

 

[CesnaCaptn]

It seams like pilots went to Jetblue and Airtran seeking a quick upgrade. Many probably overlooked the subpar FO rates, thinking the 2-3 year upgrade would stick around. I bet there are some FOs at Airtran (barring a new contract) that won't make up for the money lost from giving up their CRJ captain pay for the better part of a decade.

 

[likeitis]

Those have to be wrong. They just went out on strike and then signed a brand new contract, right? I was just comparing our 319 scales for me at Delta year 3, $93/hr and spirits new contract is at $66? Are those the old ones or the new contract. That can't be what they came off strike for. Third year rj pilots at jetblue make more than that.

It's all OK, the company promised that they will pay them more in the future. Show me one contract outside of SW in the last 15 years that made it to it's amendable date without concessions or give backs by labor. Can't believe their management on anything but somehow these pay increases are really going to happen. FUPM

 

[Mach92]

It's all OK, the company promised that they will pay them more in the future. Show me one contract outside of SW in the last 15 years that made it to it's amendable date without concessions or give backs by labor. Can't believe their management on anything but somehow these pay increases are really going to happen. FUPM

Netjets

 

[Mike man]

With the fairly decent yearly
Increases, that 3 yr A320 FO will
Be making $109hr in year ten
With a 72 hr/mo guarantee.

More likely, He will be making
$160/hr, which is more than
A present 10 yr Delta 320 Capt.

A320 Capt pay tops out at $185/hr

welcome Spirit MEC...or some MEC suck ass...really "slick" contract we got.

Lets run through the time line:

Early June 2010--Spirit MEC, "we will stop at nothing to get pay parody, not tomorrow not next year, TODAY"

June 17, 2010--We don't have any details of the new CBA, but you should go back to work, call scheduling if you want to help them out.

June 18, 2010--We are not releasing any details of the new CBA, but everyone should be back to work now...you have to keep in mind the entire contract, not just the pay rates.

SPA MEC pounded their chests, and hooted and hollered..."PAY PARODY NOW" (especially for FO's) but what happened? They gave us a poop taco, covered in piss with some vomit to dip it in and hold the 150% for OT, and don't forget to raise insurance premiums by 120% or so...and then just let the company walk all over the new CBA.

 

[jonjuan]

PAY PARODY

Huh?????????

 

[Beetle007]

Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to compare total contracts.

The spirit contract is about a balance of workrules and pay and over the 5 year contract the pay goes up quickly. It is hard to compare current contracts because of all the workrule protections unique to Spirit that you don't find at many other airlines. These workrule protections allow our lower payrates to become higher paychecks when you compare them to airlines with pref bidding.

- we get a minimum of 4 days off between trips
- we kept our scope protections (unlike Delta)
- trip drops or scheduling changes almost always results in more credit or 100% pay protection.
- junior assignment is 200% and voluntary only
- trips that conflict in transition get dropped pay protected
- trips that touch training get dropped pay protected
- trips that touch vacation get dropped pay protected
- Reserves can't be released early into rest
- We have always fought against pref bidding because it will cause us to lose the above items.

Last month under the new contract I had 84.28 block / 117.17 credit / 14 days off. It should have been 117.17 credit with 16 days off but the company is trying to get out of some language in the contract and we have arbitration scheduled for early October.

 

[Beetle007]

If we were offered the Spirit contract or the Delta contract, I think you would find the majority of Spirit pilots would vote for the Spirit contract.

Pref bidding is almost a 4 letter word at our company.

 

[likeitis]

Netjets

I thought their contract isn't amendable until 2012. Not really comparing like business models.

 

[Beetle007]

the company is trying to get out of some language in the contract and we have arbitration scheduled for early October.

I should elaborate

The contract language says that we can only work 6 days in a row and anything in excess of 6 gets dropped pay protected. So if I bid schedules that work the last 6 days of one month and the first 6 days of the next month....that puts me at 12 days in a row. That happened to me last month.

According to the contract, the company has to drop 6 days pay protected to reduce you to no more than 6 days in a row. They aren't allowed to drop days in the middle (only the ends of the 12 day period). The company is trying to figure out how to get out of that language because it killed their staffing formulas.

 

[IAHERJ]

If we were offered the Spirit contract or the Delta contract, I think you would find the majority of Spirit pilots would vote for the Spirit contract.

Pref bidding is almost a 4 letter word at our company.

As it should be. I can tell you first hand that you guys did pretty darn well in just keeping PBS off your property.

 

[Dizel8]

Spirit MEC, "we will stop at nothing to get pay parody, not tomorrow not next year, TODAY"

You shouldn't be angry, you got what they prommised, pay parody

 

[Mike man]

You shouldn't be angry, you got what they promised, pay parody

Exactly...finally somebody gets it.

For those less enlightened...

PARITY = the quality or state of being equal or equivalent
PARODY = a feeble or ridiculous imitation

 

[Mike man]

- we get a minimum of 4 days off between trips

Yup...but we work 6 days in a row nearly 100% of the time

- we kept our scope protections (unlike Delta)

Our scope sucks, it can still be used against us

- trip drops or scheduling changes almost always results in more credit or 100% pay protection.

If you drop a trip, you don't get paid for it...if the company cancels you get paid

- junior assignment is 200% and voluntary only

this is true...they gave away 150% for picking up open time or even making your days better

- trips that conflict in transition get dropped pay protected

That has not happened yet, the company changed the transition rules and are not doing this now, many folks were still stuck with the 1 or 2 day off blocks in the middle of 12 on

- trips that touch training get dropped pay protected

Except for how they can assign trips on those days...like a 4 day that touches one day of training you will still work 3 days right up to 3 days of recurrent

- trips that touch vacation get dropped pay protected

In theory, that is how it will work...unless they change the vacation rules.

- Reserves can't be released early into rest

Except they can, but have to have 10 hours of rest, and then can only be shifted 2 more hours forward...it is only when they move a RAP back, you will have more than 24 hours off.

- We have always fought against pref bidding because it will cause us to lose the above items.

Except for the good negotiators, they had vendors, and were doing trial bidding with the negotiators and the crew plan

Last month under the new contract I had 84.28 block / 117.17 credit / 14 days off. It should have been 117.17 credit with 16 days off but the company is trying to get out of some language in the contract and we have arbitration scheduled for early October.

Since the scheduling rules of the new CBA went into effect on September 1 your August pay result is not of importance, they new CBA pay was effective August 1 (and for some unexplained reason we didn't even get retro from the time we returned to work until some voted in the new CBA).

As far as the transition is concerned, the company has their finger in your ass but you still seem to be on their side...they took two days from you and you still, for some reason, are on their side...I just don't get it.

76% have never been so wrong.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

and what about the guys/gals on furlough?

 

[Mike man]

and what about the guys/gals on furlough?

I think we have right around 50 or so on furlough or voluntary furlough...this does not include the people who are still on the seniority list but are off fling in other parts of the world, or at American.

And the 150% for open time pick ups is something I have never done...I am just pointing out they gave it away in exchange for nothing. The 150% also applies to, or used to, apply to making you days better...which I did if I could. For example, if you dropped a 4:00 hour turn for a 6:00 hour tune you got the 150% on the 2:00 extra hours, so you got 9:00 hours of credit for 6:00 hours of block, but that was only if you improved the day.

The rumor is, recalls this fall/winter, but who knows.