APA: "unprecedented"; CALALPA: "ops normal"

[densoo]

Great APA message to the rank and file. The message is clear. Don't do it.

At CAL vacation fly-through and requests for voluntary junior manning don't even cause a ripple with the union.

Management has gotten so used to enough pilots "rising" (lowering themselves?) to the challenge, that this is completely normal now. They ask for and get it virtually every summer and holiday. By now, it must be part of their staffing model. It means a permanently understaffed airline.

APA INFORMATION HOTLINE

This is APA President Captain Lloyd Hill with the APA Information Hotline for Monday, January 14.

PILOT MANNING DECISIONS CONTINUE TO PLAGUE AMERICAN AIRLINES: In an unprecedented operational move last week, American Airlines management has called upon us, the pilots, to bail them out of a manning shortage crisis — a manning shortage caused solely by the short-sighted vision of our management team who continue to underman this airline.

Management's Crew Resources Department recently sent out HI-6 messages to some 777, 767 and 737 captain bid statuses asking those pilots who have vacations scheduled for February to consider vacation deferrals. This request to sell our vacation back to management in exchange for making more pilots available to fly is only a request. None of us has an obligation to give up personal vacation time to cover for their mistakes. Additionally, this request by management avoids portions of our contract that provide financial incentive for pilots to help cover the schedule.

This latest announcement by management is just another confirmation of what we have been highlighting for the last three months – management has intentionally undermanned this airline. Manning has now reached critical levels and the airline's dismal operational reliability performance is just one of the visible results.

So, how should we respond to these increasing requests from management to save them from their self-induced death spiral? For each of you, that is an individual decision. You are not obligated to consider their requests. Each of you should consider the impact of your actions. When management builds bizarre and onerous sequences to cover the schedule, be safe and don't be afraid to utilize your contractually protected rights. When management tries to circumvent our contract to assign or reassign you to fly, "Commit to Your Contract" and don't be coerced into non-negotiated productivity. When management tries to gain further non-negotiated productivity by encouraging pilots to defer their vacation, consider the impact of selling back your vacation to management rather than spending that time with your family. The bottom line is when we give management "free" productivity to help them out, it exacerbates the problems of stagnation, inadequate furlough recalls and fatigue that currently grip our pilot group. So the guidance I am giving each of you is first, be safe; second, be smart; and finally, commit to your contract and commit to your fellow pilots.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Great APA message to the rank and file. The message is clear. Don't do it.

At CAL vacation fly-through and requests for voluntary junior manning don't even cause a ripple with the union.

Management has gotten so used to enough pilots "rising" (lowering themselves?) to the challenge, that this is completely normal now. They ask for and get it virtually every summer and holiday. By now, it must be part of their staffing model. It means a permanently understaffed airline.

Yep, except CAL has it down to an art form. They will offer voluntary reduced flying and then junior man a couple days in the same month. Beat that American!

 

[ualdriver]

SAME crap here at United. We're pretty understaffed (you all saw the DEC meltdown), and the company is constantly coming to us for JRM/SRM (our version of "overtime") to help the company out of its monthly tight spots. We have guys getting JRM/SRM calls daily. Of course, our VP of OPS sent a letter to the Chicago Tribune in response to our "little" full page ad claiming that we're properly staffed even though we cancelled 300+ flights over Christmas for a lack of crews. UFB.

The most discouraging and frustrating thing at UAL is that we still have some toolboxes who help the company out at every turn (it's the same few idiots over and over), while the rest of us have stopped "helping" months ago, at least. They waive their contract, fly broken airplanes around, and JRM/SRM repeatedly, then wonder why we have such a crap contract that the company seems unwilling to budge from.

Seems like it's the same everywhere........

 

[Cardinal]

There is a slight difference between AA asking for vacation fly through (with 2000 and change on furlough) and CAL asking for it, with nobody on the street.

 

[ualdriver]

There is a slight difference between AA asking for vacation fly through (with 2000 and change on furlough) and CAL asking for it, with nobody on the street.

Actually, that's an excellent point.

 

[p3flteng]

I have only worked at 3 airlines, so I might be a little junior when it comes to this;

HOWEVER, it seems to me that when an airline has pilots on the street, NO ONE should be picking up open time.

I REPEAT, if your company has furloughed pilots, Do NOT fly extra cause you are FCCKin them.

This includes giving up your fourth week of vacation to fly that 4 day dream trip worth an extra 2 grand!!!

 

[densoo]

Yep, except CAL has it down to an art form. They will offer voluntary reduced flying and then junior man a couple days in the same month. Beat that American!

CAL's getting hooked on it. Normally, management has to actually manage the staffing months out. At CAL, no worries. A snowstorm in the Northeast? Voluntary junior for a couple of days until it clears. Heavy loads at Spring Break, offer vacation fly-through. They're getting so used to it that they don't even have to worry about getting the staffing right. The pilots have handed them all the tools they need.

- 90 hours actual block, plus whatever they can pick up on the side
- annual sim events (you won't believe this one) are on their days off. Junior guy with 12 days off per month? Down to nine now with travel day/sim/sim travel
- schedule to FAR on everything (ex: land from a redeye then 11 hours later in the late sim period for annual checkride)
- three leg redeyes

I don't see how any other airline can "beat" what's going on at CAL (not a challege, just a comment).

New POI here is rumored to be shocked and looking at making some changes.

 

[Phrogs4ever]

New POI here is rumored to be shocked and looking at making some changes.

We can only hope.

 

[JohnQ]

They waive their contract...then wonder why we have such a crap contract that the company seems unwilling to budge from.

Seems like it's the same everywhere........

In what way can any pilot waive the contract? It is one thing to pick up your version of overtime WITHIN THE CONTRACT but how can you just unilaterally waive contractual provisions and protections?

 

[waveflyer]

CAL's getting hooked on it. Normally, management has to actually manage the staffing months out. At CAL, no worries. A snowstorm in the Northeast? Voluntary junior for a couple of days until it clears. Heavy loads at Spring Break, offer vacation fly-through. They're getting so used to it that they don't even have to worry about getting the staffing right. The pilots have handed them all the tools they need.

- 90 hours actual block, plus whatever they can pick up on the side
- annual sim events (you won't believe this one) are on their days off. Junior guy with 12 days off per month? Down to nine now with travel day/sim/sim travel
- schedule to FAR on everything (ex: land from a redeye then 11 hours later in the late sim period for annual checkride)
- three leg redeyes

I don't see how any other airline can "beat" what's going on at CAL (not a challege, just a comment).

New POI here is rumored to be shocked and looking at making some changes.

what happens when you refuse? I'm all for working hard- it's not a coincidence SWA has the happiest pilots- but you need to get value for it- AND DON'T DO IT WHEN YOU HAVE FURLOUGHS- i can't believe that's going on at American of all places

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

This includes giving up your fourth week of vacation to fly that 4 day dream trip worth an extra 2 grand!!!

2 grand for a four day? Who the hell would do that?

 

[AWACoff]

[
- three leg redeyes

3 leg redeyes...is that bad? Ka-rist, we have 5 leg redeyes out here in Hafa Adai land. I can't agree with you on that one. Hell, I don't even blink an eye at a 4 leg redeye. There are a TON of things I will go on strike for in our contract...redeye flying isn't one of them. Real trip rigs of 3:1. Duty rigs of 2:1. NO Rx days....this is the biggest crock of crap I have ever heard of. Why should a lineholder be the JUNIOR reserve pilot because the company can't staff correctly. The RX days are gone or I vote NO. Every IRO should be a Captain. This will allow career progression for every pilot on the list. We need a complete commuter set of rules so that we can actually get to work and be paid. CASH pay raises of 53% with additional QOL improvements. PBS will be just dandy IF we implement real work rules. I've had my picket sign in hand once before. I'm sure it will feel just as nice the 2nd time around. Rant off.

 

[sleeves]

There is a slight difference between AA asking for vacation fly through (with 2000 and change on furlough) and CAL asking for it, with nobody on the street.

The guys that pick this stuff up have no idea (or care) if anyone is on the street or not. They only care about themselves. At Cal they were doing it when guys were furloughed.

 

[densoo]

Customer service. What a concept! IF CAL pilots could just start a "contract compliance" campaign or a "safety first" compaign or a "[insert euphemism]" campaign, it might affect the bottom line and get the attention of the shareholders.

Oh, yea, there's the "Partnership Accord." Pilots "partner" with management and then management "accords" the pilots whatever pay and workrules they deem appropriate.

NEW YORK -- Corporate leaders who think they can slash expenses without customers noticing might want to give Circuit City Stores Inc.'s top brass a call. The electronics retailer is living the nightmare of cost-cutting gone bad.

The Richmond, Va.-based company has been in a downward spiral since it announced last spring that it would lay off thousands of experienced workers it candidly said it could replace with cheaper new hires.

Too bad that service matters in that corner of the retail market. Shoppers quickly noticed and fled -- leaving Circuit City's sales and profits plunging. Its same-store holiday sales, reported on Monday, fell 11.4 percent. And its stock is now about 80 percent below where it was the day before it made the staffing announcement.

It's a business-school case study being written before our eyes. Companies everywhere should remember this management mishap as they wrestle with cost cuts of their own amid slowing economic growth, rising inflationary pressures and a fatigued consumer.

http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080112/BUSINESS/801120311/1003/COMMUNITIES

 

[Gorilla]

If you are a line-holder, don't answer the phone. How tough is that? Don't expose yourself to reassignments.

 

[ualdriver]

In what way can any pilot waive the contract? It is one thing to pick up your version of overtime WITHIN THE CONTRACT but how can you just unilaterally waive contractual provisions and protections?

Lots of ways. For example, our contract limits the length of our duty day if we have a very early show. There's nothing in the FAR's that necessarily restricts our duty day, but our contract does. If the weather gets bad as the day progresses and that contractual duty day looks like its going to be exceeded even though it may be legal per FAR's, some guys will "waive" that provision of the contract with the crew desk to "help out." It's bull, but they do it.

We have a minimum rest rule on ANY layover of 9 hours "behind the hotel room door," even though the FAR's may require less rest. Some guys will waive that 9 hours behind the door to "help out" or for some sort of reward later in their trip.

There's two off the top of my head. There are more, and despite our management's behavior, we have some whores who can't help out enough. And some of these guys were flying overtime when we had guys on the street, which is just about as low as it gets.

It's funny, too, because when you confront these idiots, they get very defensive. Usually, the answer for their behavior has something to do with hating ALPA for reason x,y, and/or z. But when you say, "OK, I understand you're mad with ALPA for reason x, but what are you doing to express your displeasure with our management team's behavior?" you're met with a deafening silence.

 

[densoo]

We have a minimum rest rule on ANY layover of 9 hours "behind the hotel room door," even though the FAR's may require less rest.

Nine hours in the room?! CAL is absolute FAR, block to block, no matter how much time it takes to get hotel transport to or from airport, no matter what irregularities may occur at the hotel checkin (sorry, rooms aren't ready), no matter when the vans run (sorry, you'll have to leave early, vans only run every thirty minutes, and they're usually late to boot). All of these delays get sucked out of crew rest. Do you still get crew meals of some kind, too?

 

[ualdriver]

Nine hours in the room?! CAL is absolute FAR, block to block, no matter how much time it takes to get hotel transport to or from airport, no matter what irregularities may occur at the hotel checkin (sorry, rooms aren't ready), no matter when the vans run (sorry, you'll have to leave early, vans only run every thirty minutes, and they're usually late to boot). All of these delays get sucked out of crew rest. Do you still get crew meals of some kind, too?

Yes, we get crew meals. We can pick what type of crew meals we want too (i.e. regular, vegetarian, light choice chicken or fish, even hindu for pete's sake among several others!) What a great contract we have!

The 9 hours "behind the door" that we have is a good part of our contract. When we arrive in our room, we just call the crew desk and say I just got here, add 9 hours, and tell them we'll be in the lobby available for pick-up at that time. Since the vans at most hotels only run on the hour and half-hour and our company is too cheap to pay for other transportation, we usually get a little extra time from that, too.

That's the way I think the FAR's for minimum rest need to be written. Not a minimum "block to block" rest, but a minimum rest IN YOUR PLACE OF REST.

 

[waveflyer]

again- what happens when you refuse?

 

[ualdriver]

again- what happens when you refuse?

deleted

 

[Patriot328]

If you are a line-holder, don't answer the phone. How tough is that? Don't expose yourself to reassignments.

Not even that. Even if you do answer, just tell them you are unavailable. I'll be d*mned if I get JM'd off of a phone call....

 

[densoo]

again- what happens when you refuse?

I don't think it is a matter of "if you refuse" or if you call in fatigued because you've been used right up the FARs. Sure, you can refuse, and many do, more all the time. For the individual, this is always a choice--and a requirement not to fly fatigued.

As a management technique though, letting the pilot group know that they'll be seeing the CP for refusing a legal pairing or calling in fatigued has it's intended affect. Some folks just don't want to go through the hastle. "You are hereby requested to see the company doctor on mm/dd/yy because there obviously must be a physical and mental problem if you can't work under FAA guidelines" is a fairly effective stick that, unfortunately, is an authorized method of harassment. The CP's formal letter of request for "notes from your doctor" requiring justification for why a pilot called in sick between Thanksgiving and Christmas is an annual rite. Again, both legal and an instrument of harassment at CAL.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

Nine hours in the room?! CAL is absolute FAR, block to block, no matter how much time it takes to get hotel transport to or from airport, no matter what irregularities may occur at the hotel checkin (sorry, rooms aren't ready), no matter when the vans run (sorry, you'll have to leave early, vans only run every thirty minutes, and they're usually late to boot). All of these delays get sucked out of crew rest. Do you still get crew meals of some kind, too?

Not true, we get 9:15 minimum block to block rest. Still inadequate but 30 minutes better than the FARs.

 

[densoo]

Not true, we get 9:15 minimum block to block rest. Still inadequate but 30 minutes better than the FARs.

Yep. Thanks.