APA/AMR Set A Dangerous Precedent

[surplus1]

Who protects the little guy when ALPA becomes the money-hungry beauracracy?

The little guy must protect himself. That is why the little guys formed the RJDC and are trying to protect themselves.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Please. The little guy has been given our flying for years now while mgt shrinks us. It is we who need protection from you, and I am gladdened that ALPA is finally doing in response. It took too long, and it does not go far enough, but it is a start.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Surplus

Dear Surplus,

Surplus says, " what exactly makes you think that ALPA will do anything at all to "defend the Eagle pilots"

Sarcasm is difficult to convey on an internet message board and my post was, indeed, laced with sarcasm but also with the understanding that the APA/AMR/ALPA tinderbox has the potential to set some very powerful precedent.

You see, in the AMR/Eagle "battle", ALPA will be fighting against APA. They have a duty of fair representation to the Eagle pilots -- no small group. While arguably the Eagle pilots are not the financial windfall to the association that converting APA would be, I believe that Duane Woerth and the Board of Directors are quite aware that every so-called "regional" airline in the western hemisphere is carefully watching what happens.

If he and the association elect to sacrifice their duty to represent the Eagle pilots instead attempting to bring APA back into the fold, he will face a much larger lawsuit than that being brought by RJDC.

If he chooses to put the legal power of the association fully behind the Eagle pilots (as would be required to prevent the landgrab being attempted by APA) then he will set precedent which will dramatically change the landscape of the RJDC lawsuit.

Finally the conflict of interest that IS ALPA today will be forced to resolve itself. It may very well do so in civil war, but there are questions that have to be answered regardless of the consequences.

Is the association fairly representing the Eagle pilots? (or any "regional" pilot for that matter: PSA, Piedmont, Mesaba, Comair, ASA)

Is the association taking action to ensure that the careers of so-called "regional" pilots are not being negatively affected by the bargaining tactics of management, other pilot groups, or governmental interference?

Is the stability of the regional airline pilot's career being negatively impacted by the association due to bargaining tactics on other ALPA properties? If so, how is the association acting to mitigate these effects?

You see, ALPA has no choice but to fight on behalf of the Eagle pilots. That fight will change the association forever. The reason that we cant get along lies in the common truth that we are all very greedy regarding our jobs. I've sat on both sides of the fence and I assure you that the goal is the same -- keep the flying on the property. I would be deeply dissapointed if that goal were dismissed. I contend that ALPA is simply unable to negotiate for both "feeder" and "mainline". The conflict of interests lies in their own bylaws -- how can they protect the flying of both groups when the flying can no longer be defined? The only solution is for there to be only one group. ALPA, in their profound arrogance, dismissed that goal long ago.

Just one man's opinion of course.

*Notice I did not use the word "union" in this post -- ALPA is anything but united.

 

[bvt1151]

Well said, furloughed. Well said.

 

[General Lee]

I think Fly Delta jets has it right once again. The regional pilots cannot see that they have been the ones expanding while we at the majors have been contracting. Now we want a piece of the pie, not all of the pie, just our fair piece---which was originally flown by our own planes years ago. The regional pilots cry foul!!!! They can't take away our growth---that's not fair!!! Hello? Can't you see that that was OUR growth? We will have 1310 furloughees on June 1st. what should we do with them? Delta is buying your 70 seaters. Delta can do whatever they want---if the price is right. They want more than 57 of them, and they have more than that on order. We have people out of work, who want to get back into the right seat, or left seat. The regional pilots at ASA and Comair have ENJOYED huge expansion in the last two years, with many many upgrades etc. It is time to help our furloughed pilots. If you do not want to help the people on furlough, then you are just greedy. Thanks to Lawson and all of his cronies at Comair, we now want our union to ask Delta for the 70 seaters at Comair or ASA rates---whichever is higher. I think Delta could handle that, especially since the average years of service for the furloughees and the coresponding Capt and FO payscales for those years will be a bargain compared to the 15 year Capt's at Comair. Thanks Lawson.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sleepy]

I think Fly Delta jets has it right once again. The regional pilots cannot see that they have been the ones expanding while we at the majors have been contracting. Now we want a piece of the pie, not all of the pie, just our fair piece---which was originally flown by our own planes years ago. The regional pilots cry foul!!!! They can't take away our growth---that's not fair!!! Hello? Can't you see that that was OUR growth? We will have 1310 furloughees on June 1st. what should we do with them? Delta is buying your 70 seaters. Delta can do whatever they want---if the price is right. They want more than 57 of them, and they have more than that on order. We have people out of work, who want to get back into the right seat, or left seat. The regional pilots at ASA and Comair have ENJOYED huge expansion in the last two years, with many many upgrades etc. It is time to help our furloughed pilots. If you do not want to help the people on furlough, then you are just greedy. Thanks to Lawson and all of his cronies at Comair, we now want our union to ask Delta for the 70 seaters at Comair or ASA rates---whichever is higher. I think Delta could handle that, especially since the average years of service for the furloughees and the coresponding Capt and FO payscales for those years will be a bargain compared to the 15 year Capt's at Comair. Thanks Lawson.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Ok General, If we (ASA and Comair) help you guys out , what is in it for us? I really don't see how we can help you, we are completely powerless. You can help yourselves, and I don't have a problem with your getting RJs on the mainline (helps us with the next PID), as long as you don't try to take anything we already have on our property. I would rather see DAL pilots getting the DCI growth than ACA, Skywest or Chit. At ASA our RJ order will be complete this year (per Skip), so our growth is done.

Was this an Eagle thread?

 

[General Lee]

Sleepy,

I have never advocated "taking" any of your 70 seaters. I just think we need to do something about the 1300 or so furloughees. You guys at ASA did help initially with allowing some (ok---13) of our pilots to join your ranks at the bottom of your list---which only helped your pilots, allowing our guys to fly your standups etc. The Comair MEC Chair was not helpful at all, and in the end will hurt his own pilots. I think our MEC and Delta management will negotiate something to get our furloughed pilots off the street and into cockpits at the right price for everyone. As far as helping your PID, I don't know if the rates would help you. When the hiring resumes in 4-5 years, the ASA pilots will be offered interviews, which may yield results in higher pay in your future at Delta. Right now we have to take care of our own---the 1300 pilots that Comair forgot about.

Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Right now we have to take care of our own---the 1300 pilots that Comair forgot about.

Bye Bye----General Lee

General,

I wish they just "forgot about us." If they did, some of our pilots might be flying for them right now. No, what they are doing is much worse. They are actively preventing their mgt from hiring Delta pilots. Somehow, it's ok when they do it, but when we threaten to retaliate in kind, we are in the wrong.

They allow our pilots to work there, we'll allow ours to work here. As it stands right now, I don't think we should ever hire another cmr pilot. That seems to be their wish, so there shouldn't be a problem.

Now back to the AMR discussion.

 

[embdrvr]

ALPA may surprise us all and show some muscle. After all there is no conflict of interest. They are not collecting huge amounts of dues money from AA pilots.

 

[RideandDrive]

As a Comair pilot, I say take the 70 seat airplanes. I'd like some preferential hiring at some point as it would be nice to escape Delta Connection and its low pay environment.