AP Syria just fired on IDF jets over the Med.

[FDJ2]

Mig 29 is superior performance wise. But an IDF pilot coupled with a 15 is far superior.

The battle gets even more weighted in the IDFs favor when you add in force multipliers such as their AWACS. I believe the IDF uses E-2Cs.

 

[stonewall]

I guess we do not expect Israel to follow international rules, so we should not be upset if N. Korean, Iranian or Russian jets buzzed Crawford!

There is little doubt that Israel needs to project force and that they have plenty of enemies, however, I don't think it would serve the US to condone such behaviour nor do I think we can, if we expect other countries to follow the rules.

It's a gutsy move, but Syria is harboring high-ranking Hamas officials. If that is being done with the explicit knowledge and approval of Assad, then you can make an argument for the appropriateness of the threat.

 

[Dizel8]

You can, but remember who is considered the protector of Israel, namely the US. Needless to say, some people might decide to take their ire out on the US and for those countries, who we expect to follow the rules and deal in diplomacy, this could be taken as another sign, that the US has two sets of rules.

(There was time when the US was harboring a gentleman, who was considered a criminal by the Iranian goverment!)

Why should we expect Iran to follow the rules, when Israel, in this case, has shown that it is not neccesary.

I am certainly more sympathetic to Israel than the other ME countries, however, sometimes I also feel they do go a bit too far and that we do cuddle them a bit too much.

 

[stonewall]

This ain't good. Hamas affiliated group just executed an 18 yr old Israeli civilian. I swear these islamists are f***** savages. Gonna get much uglier, I think.

http://michellemalkin.com/

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Yep and Israel just rounded up pretty much the entire Hamas Cabinet in Gaza. I read a novel once that had this scenario as the prelude.

 

[Dizel8]

I will say this, if I was in the Iranian leadership, I would be working 24/7 on getting the "weapon".

There is little doubt, that many ME countries are not as opposed to this idea as the US is, as a matter of fact, they might welcome it, since it would give an Islamic country an immense sense of pride and stature in the world.

The Russians and the Chinese probably do not feel threatened by the thought of an Iranian nuke, they are both dragging their feet, while clamoring to partake in Iranian oil. Putin may even relish the thought of seeing the US trumped.

The US worries deeply, and I would venture a guess and say it has a bit to do with Israel and a lot to do with oil and the powerstructure in the ME and our influence over the same.

Peace in the ME, yeah, when it snows in the Sahara!

 

[coogebeachhotel]

I have seen snow in the Sahara.

 

[stonewall]

We'll see if Russia feels threatened by an "Islamic bomb" when the Iranians use it as leverage for the muslim Chechen separatists.

Who cares it if makes arabs feel all warm and fuzzy for Iran to have a nuke? Iran is actively supporting people who saw the ********************ing heads off of people in cold-blood. Who the ******************** does that in 2006?

An 18 year old civilian was kidnapped and executed, and the headlines on CNN and Fox are "Israel expands offensive" stuff. Why? BECAUSE THE WORLD IS USED TO SEEING MUSLIMS ********************ING EXECUTE PEOPLE IN COLD BLOOD. Dog bites man. ********************ing savages. I hope Israel levels the whole West Bank. The Palestinians don't deserve the own damn country.

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Apparently Israeli airspace is now closed. O boy.

 

[Dizel8]

Iran is actively supporting people who saw the ********************ing heads off of people in cold-blood. Who the ******************** does that in 2006?

Well, apparently the US armed forces may have acted less than honorably in more than a couple of instances in Iraq, of course, they did not saw peoples heads off, they used modern weapons. Certainly more efficient and more "clinical".

I hope Israel levels the whole West Bank. The Palestinians don't deserve the own dang country.

You should not condemn an entire country because of the actions of its misguided leaders or its radicals. Americans do not wish to be judged based on Bush/Clinton (pick your poison) actions, nor should we judge others in a similar fashion!

 

[bluejuice787]

Well, apparently the US armed forces may have acted less than honorably in more than a couple of instances in Iraq, of course, they did not saw peoples heads off, they used modern weapons. Certainly more efficient and more "clinical".



You should not condemn an entire country because of the actions of its misguided leaders or its radicals. Americans do not wish to be judged based on Bush/Clinton (pick your poison) actions, nor should we judge others in a similar fashion!

Dizel-

I agree with most of your attitude and position, however, I believe that we are dealing with people that want us dead at all costs no matter what. I do not believe these people (radical muslim) have any interest in peace and are singular in their belief that all infidels must die.

Juice

Juice

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Well, apparently the US armed forces may have acted less than honorably in more than a couple of instances in Iraq, of course, they did not saw peoples heads off, they used modern weapons. Certainly more efficient and more "clinical".



You should not condemn an entire country because of the actions of its misguided leaders or its radicals. Americans do not wish to be judged based on Bush/Clinton (pick your poison) actions, nor should we judge others in a similar fashion!

Exception vs Norm

 

[Dizel8]

Well, the radical muslim responsible for 9/11 were Saudis, yet Saudi is supposedly an ally of ours, clearly those in power have elected to treat people as individuals and not condemn an entire nation.

Cannot say for sure, haven't spoken to all Palestinians, but those that I have spoken with or read about wants to enjoy the very same things in life we do. freedom, family and a good life. While it may be easy to be judge all without the benefit of reason, it would be ill advised to do so. Conversely, there are those who need to be dealt with most harshly!

 

[koko nw]

You should not condemn an entire country because of the actions of its misguided leaders or its radicals. Americans do not wish to be judged based on Bush/Clinton (pick your poison) actions, nor should we judge others in a similar fashion!

True but would you agree that Hamas has at least a passive if not an outright overt sympathy and backing from the Majority of the folks in Palestine?
If they are indeed only "radicals" which implies not in the mainstream, why are they supported by the mainstream palestinians to the degree they are?
I think your analogy in quotes is comparing apples to oranges JMHO. These folks are not the "Radicals" of the Palestinians rather the majority.

 

[Deli Guy]

[/color]

Interesting comparison - twisted but interesting. I sure wish Atta and his boys had just buzzed the WTC.

Touch'e

 

[Dizel8]

True but would you agree that Hamas has at least a passive if not an outright overt sympathy and backing from the Majority of the folks in Palestine?
If they are indeed only "radicals" which implies not in the mainstream, why are they supported by the mainstream palestinians to the degree they are?
I think your analogy in quotes is comparing apples to oranges JMHO. These folks are not the "Radicals" of the Palestinians rather the majority.

I really couldn't say and therein lies the problem. The Iraqis were supporting Saddam, yet we want to give them peace and prosperity.

As far as I can see, the average Palestinian have been given a pretty bad deal and living under conditions we would not deem fit for a dog.

The creation of the Israeli nation was in essence the world, and in large part the US, telling the Palestinians how it was going to be, whether they liked it or not. The plot of land that is Israel is one of the most contested piece of land throughout history, modern and ancient.

As I mentioned previously, this does in no way mean I side with Hamas or condone their actions, but I also realize, that this story is long and multifaceted with plenty of wrongs having been commited by both sides.

 

[Deli Guy]

Well, the radical muslim responsible for 9/11 were Saudis, yet Saudi is supposedly an ally of ours, clearly those in power have elected to treat people as individuals and not condemn an entire nation.

Cannot say for sure, haven't spoken to all Palestinians, but those that I have spoken with or read about wants to enjoy the very same things in life we do. freedom, family and a good life. While it may be easy to be judge all without the benefit of reason, it would be ill advised to do so. Conversely, there are those who need to be dealt with most harshly!

The Palestinians I have talked to simply want Israel pushed off the face of the Earth and all Israelies dead. These were the same warm people who cheered when they saw the footage of the WTC and paid homage to their Saudi brethern. (Atta and crew) How dare those mean Israelis give back Gaza and then not expect Hamas (puppet arm of Iran--who you seem to wish would get a nice nuke???) to use it (Gaza)to shell Israel? I hope this thing dies down and all go back to their corners, but in my simple mind, Syria, Palestine and Iran are pretty much one entity--and that entity is bad.

 

[Dizel8]

The Palestinians I have talked to simply want Israel pushed off the face of the Earth and all Israelies dead.

but in my simple mind, Syria, Palestine and Iran are pretty much one entity--and that entity is bad.

Cannot see much difference between those two statements, at least in the way I would interpret them if I was a Palestinian, Syrian or Iranian.

I am curious, but where exactly did I say I wanted Iran to have a nuke. What I did say, was why I could very well see WHY they wanted one.

Next thing I know, you will go all out and call me unpatriotic

 

[Deli Guy]

I really couldn't say and therein lies the problem. The Iraqis were supporting Saddam, yet we want to give them peace and prosperity.

As far as I can see, the average Palestinian have been given a pretty bad deal and living under conditions we would not deem fit for a dog.

The creation of the Israeli nation was in essence the world, and in large part the US, telling the Palestinians how it was going to be, whether they liked it or not. The plot of land that is Israel is one of the most contested piece of land throughout history, modern and ancient.

As I mentioned previously, this does in no way mean I side with Hamas or condone their actions, but I also realize, that this story is long and multifaceted with plenty of wrongs having been commited by both sides.

I hate to sound like an a$$ as I do like most of your posts, but I think you need to go back to school on the history of Israel. The Brits were the controlling authority during the creation of Israel. Our involvement was an influential vote in the UN that pretty much could have gone either way. I am just kind of a history reader and I did a little research on this a couple years ago. If you can dig up a book called "Oh Jeresulem" its a pretty good read or Thomas Friedman is a really fair "truth broker". I would also dig around on the topic of who the Palestinians actually are and their claim to the land. I think you may be surprised. This whole thing is a ball of wax, but I side with Israel. The alternative is written in the Hadith.

 

[Deli Guy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deli Guy
The Palestinians I have talked to simply want Israel pushed off the face of the Earth and all Israelies dead.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Deli Guy
but in my simple mind, Syria, Palestine and Iran are pretty much one entity--and that entity is bad.


Cannot see much difference between those two statements, at least in the way I would interpret them if I was a Palestinian, Syrian or Iranian.

I guess there is no debate here if you can not see the irony in my opinion being that Syria, Iran and Palestine(under Hamas) are the same and that that is bad---and the fact that the stated objective of Hamas and Iran are to push Israel back into the sea. I can't even start if you can not see the difference. Sorry about the nuke thing--I went back and re read it and I was distracted by your avitar.

 

[Deli Guy]

This just in........................................
GAZA (Reuters) - A spokesman for gunmen in the Gaza Strip said they had fired a rocket tipped with a chemical warhead at Israel early on Thursday.
The Israeli army had no immediate comment on the claim by the spokesman from the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed wing of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah movement.
The group had recently claimed to possess about 20 biological warheads for the makeshift rockets commonly fired from Gaza at Israeli towns. This was the first time the group had claimed firing such a rocket.
"The al-Aqsa Brigades have fired one rocket with a chemical warhead" at southern Israel, Abu Qusai, a spokesman for the group, said in Gaza.


An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army had not detected that any such rocket was fired, nor was there any report of such a weapon hitting Israel.

 

[Dizel8]

I hate to sound like an a$$ as I do like most of your posts, but I think you need to go back to school on the history of Israel. The Brits were the controlling authority during the creation of Israel. Our involvement was an influential vote in the UN that pretty much could have gone either way.

Don't think you sound like an a$$, but as for Israel and it coming into being is an interesting story and there is little doubt, that the US had a large role in the creation of that nation, overtly or covertly. Certainly the British controlled the area in recent history, however, I think it would be neccessary to go way further back in history to see the truth about this contested plot of land, a long time before the US was a nation and England became an empire.

 

[Dizel8]

I guess there is no debate here if you can not see the irony in my opinion being that Syria, Iran and Palestine(under Hamas) are the same and that that is bad---and the fact that the stated objective of Hamas and Iran are to push Israel back into the sea. I can't even start if you can not see the difference.

I think, had you asked some of the settlers, that they couldn't give a rats behind about what happened to the Palestinians and I am sure you could find plenty of Israelis that wish the problem would just "disappear". Nor do I think there is much love lost between Israelis and Iranians, and that works both ways.

As you, I do side with Israel, however, I am trying hard to see both sides of the coin.

 

[stonewall]

Around '99 and '00, I actually started to have sympathies for the Palestinians. I could completely understand their frustrations and their desire for their own state, and thought some IDF tactics had become increasingly heavy-handed. However, the second intifada started up, they dramatically increased homicide bombings in Israel proper, and completely lost all sympathy. Then came 9/11, their giddiness in the street, and the increasing intractability of Arafat.

Of course, the rest of the Arab cheered them on, all the while treating Palestinians in their OWN countries like crap. Make no mistake...Syria, Iran, SA, Jordan, and Egypt COULD NOT CARE LESS about the Palestinian "people." It's more about displacing Jews and crushing Israel than it is about the so-called "right of return." And, since none of them can take Israel in a fight (yes, due in large part to us, but also to the back-against-the-wall-never-again mentality of the Jews), they turn to cowardly acts of terrorism, funded by our friends in Iran and SA.

The Palestinian "man on the street" may not be violent. He may not hate jews. He probably just wants to live his life and provide for his family. However, his leaders are bloodthirsty irrational savages who deserve nothing but death. The avg west banker may not be a terrorist...but he knows who is and he knows where they are. Every "injustice" or hardship reaped on him and his family needs to be laid squarely at the feet of HAMAS and the PLO, NOT Israel. Let's not forget who the bad people here are, and quit with the moral relativism.

It is NOT a matter of policy for Israel and the US to target and kill innocents. However, it's the primary tactic of our enemies. To attempt to draw comparisons to the US military and the thugs that killed the 18 yr old civilian in cold blood is utterly asinine.

 

[Dizel8]

"To attempt to draw comparisons to the US military and the thugs that killed the 18 yr old civilian in cold blood is utterly asinine"

Say that to the mother who lost her child due to US military action.

But yes, in most part I agree!

 

[Ty Webb]

Lets hope Iran gets the bomb and teaches them a lesson they will never forget.

Who do you think is arming the "insurgents" that are killing our soldiers in Iraq? Since you are obviously so lost, stupid and without a clue, I'll tell you what everyone else here already knows- it's Iran and Syria.

Let's hope someone on the hiring board of CAL figures out who you are, and lets you explain your idiocy.

Back to the subject at hand, the Israelis buzzed Assad's palace last year, supersonically. . . . . apparently he didn't get the message, but I think he is going to.

 

[SpiderMan]

Why is this in the Majors section

I'll ask again, why is this in the Majors section?

 

[Dizel8]

I'll ask again, why is this in the Majors section?

"You are on guard"!

 

[Flyer1015]

I hope Israel levels the whole West Bank. The Palestinians don't deserve the own dang country.

Wow... Just, wow.


Zionists... their mentality is just as bad as the Hamas viewpoint of eradiacating Israel. A true hard Zionist would prefer nothing more than to see Palestine disappear of the map.


But wait, Hamas just announced they're accepting a plan that in essence recognizes Israel.


What do you know, some good stuff is finally happening.



Yes, it sucks that terrorists have captured Israelis and are killing them. But don't pretend like IDF's sh*t don't stink, either.



Israel just bombed a power station, that has just knocked out power to over 1.4 million Palestinians. The Palestinian government estimates it will take 6 months and 20 million dollars to fix it. Money is a problem now since Hamas has come in power, their aid from foreign countries has fallen.

 

[stonewall]

"To attempt to draw comparisons to the US military and the thugs that killed the 18 yr old civilian in cold blood is utterly asinine"

Say that to the mother who lost her child due to US military action.

But yes, in most part I agree!

I'm sorry, man, but motivations and intent DO matter. If you lost someone you loved to a car accident, would you feel the same way toward the other driver as you would to someone who murdered your loved one? It sucks either way, but there is a difference.