AOPA Legal Services Plan

[flyf15]

Time is up for me to renew my AOPA membership. What does everyone think of their legal services plan? Is it worth it? I don't really do much flying besides putting around in the Canadian Space Shuttle and I'm not too sure if it would really apply to this type of flying as AOPA is a general aviation organization.

Thanks much all

 

[embdrvr]

Does your airline have an ASAP program?

 

[flyf15]

Yep, sure does

 

[Grassstrippilot]

I keep it just in case I need it for my extra-curricular flying. I do believe that you can still use it if you purchase one for the Commercial level. It might be nice to have in addition to what ever union support you may have in the event of you need some legal support in regards to your ticket.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Time is up for me to renew my AOPA membership. What does everyone think of their legal services plan? Is it worth it? I don't really do much flying besides putting around in the Canadian Space Shuttle and I'm not too sure if it would really apply to this type of flying as AOPA is a general aviation organization.

Thanks much all

More like the Canadian LACK of Spack Shuttle :laugh:

 

[embdrvr]

Yep, sure does

If you have ASAP and don't fly outside work I'd dump AOPA.
I'm tired of supporting them anyway. All they do is worry about protecting the pocketbooks of their members which means an uphill battle to get things like transponders and Mode C installed in aircraft that operate near us. There was NMAC the other day on account of a GA aircraft operating where he shouldn't have. The controller only had primary target information since the aircraft was not Mode C equipped. If we could count on the GA crown to aviate and navigate properly it wouldn't be that big an issue but these problems are bound to crop up when you have such loose licensing standards. It would also be nice if AOPA made a serious effort to educate their members on how to properly use a radio. We don't have bandwidth to waste.

 

[fly4ever]

embdrvr,

You obviously went right from birth to an airline job and think that the airlines never cause problems like, say, land at the wrong airport while talking on the wrong frequency, forget to turn the transponder on, land without a clearance, the list goes on and on the main difference is the size of the aircraft.

Why don't you just calm down and quit thinking that the airlines rule the sky. After all, you apparently were allowed to slide by with the same "loose licensing standards".

I suggest getting down from your high horse, you may find out someday that the fall will hurt worse.

 

[embdrvr]

Yo clueless,

I didn't say airline pilots were perfect. We're all subject to screwing up and making a mistake. There is however a huge difference between making mistakes and core competence. If you're comfortable supporting an organization that endangers public safety by fighting things like transponder requirements tooth and nail that's your business. I'm interested in retiring from this profession and having a long relatively uneventful career. I'd like to see standards raised not lowered. AOPA is a pocketbook protector for a bunch of wealthy aircraft owners. My position is that if they can't afford to equip their aircraft in a manner that promotes the safety of the travelling public then they should be playing golf instead. Radio phraseology and procedures needs to be taught better and examined more closely during checkrides and BFR's. I'm tired of not being able to tell FCC I'm altering course to get around a cell while some guy is taking 10 times as long as he should to communicate with ATC. I'm not saying they don't have a right to the airspace or the frequencies. All I'm pointing out is that they should be required to use those priveleges efficiently. Like I said we just don't have the bandwidth and there are times that a blathering Pt 91 pilot is impairing safety by tying up the frequency unnecessarily.

There have already been fatal crashes involving private pilots operating where they shouldn't. The least we can do is require them to have a transponder with mode-c so we can get a TCAS alert and try to avoid hitting them. How many more people should die so AOPA members can save a few bucks?

 

[fly4ever]

embdrvr,

Resorting to name calling are we? I have been involved in aviation for over 20 years. I have been an instructor for far longer than you've been flying, I have flown for the airlines and corporate and I'm not rich but I do own an airplane that I paid 9K for and have owned for 16 years so I guess that makes me one of those "wealthy" aircraft owners. Actually, if I wanted to be wealthy I would have a job in some other industry.

I agree with you that it can be frustrating at times and humorous at times listening to people stumble over the radio - I've made my share of mistakes - but be realistic. You come across like you have never made the mistakes yourself.

You're entitled to your opinion about AOPA but for those of us that enjoy all levels of aviation we much prefer having AOPA on our side. It would be a shame for us to lose the freedom to fly for lower cost than anywhere else in the world (and with NO sacrifice in safety). We have the safest system in the world. The AOPA does not "endanger" public safety - just the opposite - they promote it in every area of operation.

Maybe you should reconsider and buy into the legal plan again since with the attitude you have you may need it.

 

[embdrvr]

embdrvr,

Resorting to name calling are we? I have been involved in aviation for over 20 years. I have been an instructor for far longer than you've been flying, I have flown for the airlines and corporate and I'm not rich but I do own an airplane that I paid 9K for and have owned for 16 years so I guess that makes me one of those "wealthy" aircraft owners. Actually, if I wanted to be wealthy I would have a job in some other industry.

I agree with you that it can be frustrating at times and humorous at times listening to people stumble over the radio - I've made my share of mistakes - but be realistic. You come across like you have never made the mistakes yourself.

You're entitled to your opinion about AOPA but for those of us that enjoy all levels of aviation we much prefer having AOPA on our side. It would be a shame for us to lose the freedom to fly for lower cost than anywhere else in the world (and with NO sacrifice in safety). We have the safest system in the world. The AOPA does not "endanger" public safety - just the opposite - they promote it in every area of operation.

Maybe you should reconsider and buy into the legal plan again since with the attitude you have you may need it.

20 years and still clueless. That's pretty sad. Sorry you couldn't make it in the airlines or corporate environment. It's not for everyone. Hope you enjoy being a CFI. You've got me beat with 20 years of instructing. I stopped instructing well over a decage ago. I don't have 20 years in this business but I'm close.

Frustrating and humorous my a#%. There are a lot more aircraft out there than 10 or 20 years ago. You fly in and out of DEN much? Throughout the Rockies and opther parts of the country I've been frustrated with people tying up frequencies far longer than needed. Yes I was once a neophyte but I strived to become as professional as possible even before I started doing this for a living. I suspect if you were in my shoes and dealing with this 4 days a week every week you'd have a slightly different opinion.

True we have the cheapest and safest GA system in the world. Who do you think is paying for it? The recreational users in the US are subsidized to a far greater extent than their counterparts elsewhere in the civilized world.

If AOPA was truly interested in safety they wouldn't fight equipment requirements. If you've been around this for 20 years you know how hard AOPA fought against transponders and mode C. I'm tired of it. What's it going to take to get GA properly equipped? More fatalities? When people buy an airline ticket they expect to get where they're going safely. They deserve an ATC environment where large aircraft can detect the presence of small ones with TCAS. It's that simple.

 

[exchexflyer]

It doesn't hurt anything to get it, it's like an insurance policy. I have heard of other guys calling them for advice because the lawyers aren't worth crap at chq. It's only 99 bucks for an atp level.

 

[fly4ever]

embdrvr,

You have assumed wrongly, I am still an active instructor, I am furloughed from an airline and I fly currently and very actively for a corporation. I have "made" it in all of these fields. You go right ahead and keep striving for professionalism because you haven't reached that level yet.

Good Day

 

[rickair7777]

embdrvr,

You obviously went right from birth to an airline job and think that the airlines never cause problems like, say, land at the wrong airport while talking on the wrong frequency, forget to turn the transponder on, land without a clearance, the list goes on and on the main difference is the size of the aircraft.

Why don't you just calm down and quit thinking that the airlines rule the sky. After all, you apparently were allowed to slide by with the same "loose licensing standards".

I suggest getting down from your high horse, you may find out someday that the fall will hurt worse.

embdrvr does have a valid point about transponders and TCAS. This electronic wizardry is dirt cheap at the basic level and should be required everywhere above 1500 agl. I started in recreational GA before flying for a living. The harsh reality is that there are a LOT of reckless and/or incompetent GA pilots in and around our busiest airspaces. They are willing, for their own reasons, to take risks that we professionals spend our careers trying to avoid. Providing these folks with a cheap electronic safety shield is only prudent, for their own sakes as well as everyone else's.

I have had two near midairs in the GA world, both of which would have been easily avoided with a rudimentary TCAS. I have also had one near-miss in an airliner full of people with a non-squawking, non-talking ASEL in class B airspace! The controller's response: "Oh, I wasn't sure about that intermittent primary return"

I'm not even going to start in about the gliders that hang out (not squawking) at 17,500 over the Sierras...right in the jet arrivals into socal!

Why not implement this now? We are going to be doing it anyway eventually...right after an errant cherokee brings down an airliner into some east LA suburb...

 

[andym037]

I have to agree with embdrvr here. The standards for GA are not stringent enough. We all saw it as CFIs. Most GA airplane owners don't fly nearly enough to be current, and many (not all) never received adequate training. And lets face it: GA is a rich man's sport. To quote JP Morgan "if you have ask [the price] you can't afford it". Meaning that if somebody has to worry about the cost of equiping/maintaining an airplane, they clearly can't afford to own one in the first place. I too am tired of AOPA's efforts to thwart reasonable restrictions to promote safety.

But anyway... weren't we supposed to be discussing the legal services plan here? lol I myself was wondering what value it has to the 121 pilot. Worth the money? Its alot on an FO's salary and I decided not to renew it this year. Any opinions?

 

[BoilerUP]

TCAS or even TCAD is not cheap. Even the cheapest Ryan TCAD system is near 10K, and Goodrich Skywatch is upwards of 20k (it is just about equal to TCAS I). Do you really want to tell a guy that has a $15k Cessna 150 or 50 year old Aeronca Champ he needs to spend nearly the total value of his airplane so that you feel safer? Gimme a break...

You cannot expect GA pilots to have the same level of comfort & skill that you as an airline pilot do...as has been said, they don't "do this four days a week". That doesn't mean that most of them aren't just as careful or professional, and to judge them as such is at least dishonest and at worst downright wrong. I'm sick and tired of the TFR violations weekend warriors continue to get, but you can't blame AOPA for that crap, you've got to place blame directly where it lies - the pilots themselves.

I'm amazed that some people have forgotten where they came from, and are so jaded by their "professional flying" they lack basic professional courtesy towards fellow pilots.

 

[CA1900]

TCAS or even TCAD is not cheap. Even the cheapest Ryan TCAD system is near 10K, and Goodrich Skywatch is upwards of 20k (it is just about equal to TCAS I). Do you really want to tell a guy that has a $15k Cessna 150 or 50 year old Aeronca Champ he needs to spend nearly the total value of his airplane so that you feel safer? Gimme a break...

I read it as he wants to require transponders, not TCAS, in GA airplanes. And I agree. As I'm sure you know, unless the other aircraft has at least a transponder, that $100K TCAS system in your jet is a paperweight, because there's nothing on the other end to acknowledge its signal.

I like the anything-over-1500-feet idea. The Cubs and Champs can drone along at low altitude without expense, and anything flying higher than that needs a transponder. Yes, gliders at 16,000, too. If you can afford AvGas at $4 a gallon, you can afford to install a transponder.

 

[wrxpilot]

And lets face it: GA is a rich man's sport. To quote JP Morgan "if you have ask [the price] you can't afford it".

No, that is a false statement - I'm far from rich and I fly very often (2x/wk). It's affordable if you are an average person and you set your priorities. Some people like to buy new cars, tvs, playstation 3s, etc. That's fine, but it really bothers me when those same people tell me "you have to be rich to fly".

 

[wrxpilot]

I'm sick and tired of the TFR violations weekend warriors continue to get, but you can't blame AOPA for that crap, you've got to place blame directly where it lies - the pilots themselves.

Me too... Unfortunately these aren't the pilots that utilize the vast (free!) resources of AOPA, EAA, etc. Let's also not forget that GA has a MUCH better safety record than it did 20 yrs ago.