Anyone ever reverse inflight w/Garrett??

[uavchaser]

1. Anyone ever done this??
2. What were the results??
3. Would you do it again??

 

[MetroSheriff]

1. Yes. Only if they are stupid or crazy.

2. Rather unpleasant.

3. Only in the resultant afterlife.


Why do you ask???

 

[FL240]

Last flight

I read about a guy awhile back that did it. Note the fact that I read about it..........he left a Metro sized crater in the ground. So I guess it's fair to say that I wouldn't do it or advise it for that matter.

 

[350DRIVER]

uavchaser >>>1. Anyone ever done this??
2. What were the results??
3. Would you do it again??
____________________________________________________

Let me respond with a few more "educated" questions>>

1) Ever slit your wrists?? What were the results??
2) Ever overdose on a mixture of crack & sleeping pills??
3) Would you do it again??

The three questions that you have asked are probably three of the dumbest I have ever seen on this board..

congrats,

3 5 0

 

[chperplt]

The three questions that you have asked are probably three of the dumbest I have ever seen on this board..

Come on now.. there have been worse questions

 

[moving2vegas]

yes, a very stupid question

well if you really want to know. below is a link to an FAA prelim accident investigation into a pilatus porter used for skydiving. the pilot accidently went into beta @ 12,500 ft agl. the plane crashed in less then 1 minute.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20030903X01437&key=1


give it a try, prove darwin right.

 

[chperplt]

Holy crap to that NTSB report...


When are you moving to Vegas, moving2vegas?

 

[Jmmccutc]

I once saw i guy fall about 10 stories off of a scaffold, and at the time i thought the fella was the stupidest person on this planet...you my friend have proven me wrong...

along with slitting wrist or overdosing...you have chosen an interesting way to die...

 

[low-n-slow]

Re: yes, a very stupid question

well if you really want to know. below is a link to an FAA prelim accident investigation into a pilatus porter used for skydiving. the pilot accidently went into beta @ 12,500 ft agl. the plane crashed in less then 1 minute.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20030903X01437&key=1


give it a try, prove darwin right.

I personally didn't read that this plane was being used for skydiving, it stated the airplane was in cruise flight and also the Porter typically comes equipped with a PT-6 and not a Garrett.

Dunno about a Garrett but I have put a PT-6 in Beta while in flight and didn't experience the afterlife.

 

[low-n-slow]

I once saw i guy fall about 10 stories off of a scaffold, and at the time i thought the fella was the stupidest person on this planet...you my friend have proven me wrong...

along with slitting wrist or overdosing...you have chosen an interesting way to die...

Can you explain to me, as a 200 hour pilot why this is the stupidist 'fella' you have ever seen because he asked this question about reversing a turbine engine in flight?

 

[Jmmccutc]

hey i didn't mean to bea smart ass but i just got done with a turbine theory class...one of the videos that we saw was had to deal with engines on stands that were put into beta on purpose after seeing that i can only imagine what it does to a plane in flight...it might not kill you but then again i don't want to be the one to try it...

 

[low-n-slow]

It said he went into reverse, not strictly beta. IMHO, it is a different animal completely when talking about flight controlability. Still, not smart! This is why we have a Flight Idle stop install on the SF-340, to try and ensure such an event does not happen.

It also stated that he went into reverse 'accidently'...'accidently' going into reverse on a PT-6 does not happen, it happens intentionally. I've read this report previously and the guy either intentionally sent his plane to the ground for insurance or was about as dumb an aircraft owner or pilot as anybody could possibly be.

I personally do not believe the original question is as 'stupid' as most here are making it out to be and it seems to me as if some folks are jumping on the bashing bandwagon. Can you go into reverse while in flight? Yes you can, as most experienced turbine pilots know reverse is a range where you can be either in it a little or full bore.

 

[uscpilot]

uavchaser >>>1. Anyone ever done this??
2. What were the results??
3. Would you do it again??
____________________________________________________

Let me respond with a few more "educated" questions>>

1) Ever slit your wrists?? What were the results??
2) Ever overdose on a mixture of crack & sleeping pills??
3) Would you do it again??

The three questions that you have asked are probably three of the dumbest I have ever seen on this board..

congrats,

3 5 0

At what point in your career did you know that beta, or reverse would be instantly fatal? And dont give me this common sense crap. I have no experience with with reverse or beta. I have heard stories of people using them in flight and not resulting in a crash. But having no experience I would love an enlightend answer. I wonder if you actually have an educated answer, or did you just feel like jumping on board and bashing someone?What are the purposes of this board? To ask questions and educate ones self. I suppose that the other is to denigrate those with less experience than your self.
305 you must be a blast to fly with. Is this how you respond to a question from a fellow crew member?
I hope the next time that you ask a question, that someone else would regard as common sense, that you just get reemed.
get a life
usc

 

[moving2vegas]

low-n-slow

This was a skydiving A/C on a ferry flight after being sold. Won't use names but I know the plane and DZ. You're right, most pc-6's use P&W turbines but I've seen a number of garrett powered porters out there. This was mainly used as an example of beta in flight not a pilot bashing thread. As far as using reverse or full beta in flight, I would agree with others on this topic and say it's extremely unwise to say the least. The loss of flow over the elevator and resulting loss of downforce (in a single engine turbine) obviously has catastrophic effects.

 

[avbug]

This is ridiculous. First of all, beta or reverse is not instant disaster. Some aircraft are approved for it. Moving a PT6 into beta or reverse is not a death sentence, nor is it so in a TFE-331 powered aircraft.

What about turbine theory suggests otherwise? The risks of going to reverse having nothing to do with turbine theory, but the effects of stalled or reverse airflow over the powerplant...not through the engine. The engine still turns just as it always has...it's blade angle that makes the difference.

One danger that can occur when entering the beta or reverse regime inflight is that one may experience a runaway propeller or engine overspeed, without the normal topping functions on the mechanical governor, or fuel governor. Care must be used. Once the propeller is moved past the pitch stops into the ground range, as power is increased, a risk does occur with increased airspeed and or engine power increase (by moving thrust or power levers back farther into the reversing range) that an overspeed is possible. In a slow multi engine airplane, this can be a real hazard. In a single engine airplane, the aircraft may or may not remain controllable. It is not an automatic liklihood, nor a death sentence, either.

Wayne Handley specialized in doing this regularly on the airshow circuit. His eventual crash and hospitalization resulted from a malfunction in which he was unable to bring the airplane back out of the ground range.

I've reversed in flight, and am not automatically dead. Amazing.

 

[Gulfstreamlover]

I seem to remember an MU2 crash where a guy tried to slow down and one prop went back before the other, well needless to say he'll never have a chance to try that again. Any one have a link to that or know what I'm talking about?

 

[low-n-slow]

Re: low-n-slow

The loss of flow over the elevator and resulting loss of downforce (in a single engine turbine) obviously has catastrophic effects.

I believe we are hearing theories from folks who have actually never reversed a turbine powered propeller engine during flight.

This should be a program for those two guys on Discovery Channel's 'Myth Busters'...whatever their names are.

 

[moving2vegas]

hey avbug

This post started as a 200 hour pilot asked basically if it's OK to put a turbine into beta in flight. I can't understand how anybody would tell this low time pilot " hey, I've done it. I'm alive. you go right ahead and try it." That’s basically what a few have said here. Then you cited the wreck of Wayne Handley (one of the most experienced aerobatic pilots ever) flying the Raven 2. If he didn't pull if off, why tell a 200 hour private he can? As a reasonably experienced pilot, with 1200 turbine hours, I personally feel a responsibility to tell uvachaser "never intentionally place any turbine engine in beta while in flight." I don't subscribe to the lets see what happens when I do this training theory.

 

[avbug]

No, no. Everybody's probably right. When one goes into reverse or beta in flight, the airplane explodes. Not simply begins a slow rupture, but every rivet, every lap seam, every component, stringer, longeron, spar, bulkhead, and the very skin, first begins to glow, and then the airplane shakes like a banshee with unholy specteral gastric distress. The skin begins to glow brighter and brighter until it's terrible radiance exceeds even the noon-day sun, and then things begin to come apart. I hear that if one even looks at such an airplane, one will be blind for life.

Still, I have to wonder. When the aircraft is sitting tied down on the flight line at night, with no airflow over that elevator, or rudder, or ruddervator, or elevon, or...how come it doesn't end in complete catastrophy, then? Perhaps just because it doesn't have so far to fall?

But what about that downwash that prevents certain catastrauphic effects...that download on the "elevator." Is it the horizontal stab that benifits from download, or is it the elevator? Hmmm. I wonder. And does that download go away when reverse or beta is entered? (Clue: does it go away if the engine is shut down and the prop feathered in flight?). So long as that airplane is moving forward, it doesn't go away. It may be altered or varied, but it doesn't go away.

Personally, I'm finding a basement apartment. Now that I know that the risk of a turbopropeller going into reverse accidentally in flight exists, and that it's sure to end in catastrauphic disaster, I want to get as far underground as I can. Those airplanes could be raining down any minute. Gotta go. I think I hear one overhead right...

 

[LAXSaabdude]

I guess it just depends on the airplane. The SF340 is one airplane in which it was emphatically stated, in no uncertain terms, to never, ever pull the props behind the idle gate in flight. We had an aircraft experience a dual catastrophic engine failure as a result of this. As a result, all Saabs were retrofitted with a weight-on-wheels activated idle stop.

Other airplanes may be authorized for inflight beta/reverse usage. I am not specifically aware of any, but if you are flying one, more power to you. Knock yourself out.

LAXSaabdude.