Anybody else heard...?

[StaticWick]

I heard a nasty rumor a month ago from our DO at a meeting! Anybody else heard of flexiable duty times involving:

~Flight Legs~
A to B to C to B to A

Legs "A to B" and "B to A" are empty, repositioning legs, Part 91

Legs "B to C to B" are passenger, Part 135

If I use 14 hours of duty but less than 8 hours of flying between "B to C to B" I still can fly back to "A" beyond my 14 hours and I am legal to do so???

 

[JJET44]

It's always been that way. The FAA conciders repo legs as part 91 as long as you are not carrying passengers or cargo for hire.
Some companies, such as mine, still won't let you go over 14 hours regardless.

 

[StaticWick]

Thanks... I thought somebody was doing crack. Because my ex-boss is following it causing turbo prop guys to fly late hours. But, CP is going crazy trying to keep him honest.

 

[gto2002]

I have been told that the a to b leg would be considered 135 because it is before the trip the b to a is 91 since the revenue trip is over.

 

[SDCFI]

I have been told that the a to b leg would be considered 135 because it is before the trip the b to a is 91 since the revenue trip is over.

The first leg is still considered 91 and can be operated as such regulations-wise (wx mins, alternate's, etc); however the flight and duty time must be taken into consideration on the subsequent revenue legs. Since the 135 duty/rest req's only apply to revenue operations the last 91 leg can exceed any/all duty/flight time limitations. Also, the last 91 leg is still "commercial flying" and does count toward the next revenue duty/rest/flt time period. I have flown 9+ hours with a 16.5 hour duty day after a long 91 flt home. At our company all 91 legs that will exceed a 135 limitation are at the discretion of the pilot and must have the approval of management.

 

[StaticWick]

thanks everyone for their insight.

 

[cem757]

Think about this, Who is paying for those "91" repo flight? Is your company eating that cost or is the costumer paying for them? If the costumer is paying for it, isn't that a "revenue" for the company? We operate under 91 rules on the empty legs, but are very cautious about busting 14 hours even on the flight home empty. As with any fed you talk to, they all give you a different answer. So be smart about it and what your own a$$, but don't take it overboard. My thought is as long as you don't bend metal flying under 91 rules, you'll have no issues. So just be safe and smart and do what you feel is right.

 

[JJET44]

Think about this, Who is paying for those "91" repo flight? Is your company eating that cost or is the costumer paying for them? If the costumer is paying for it, isn't that a "revenue" for the company? We operate under 91 rules on the empty legs, but are very cautious about busting 14 hours even on the flight home empty. As with any fed you talk to, they all give you a different answer. So be smart about it and what your own a$$, but don't take it overboard. My thought is as long as you don't bend metal flying under 91 rules, you'll have no issues. So just be safe and smart and do what you feel is right.

Yeah,

It is sort of a gray area with the Feds. My company got a difinitive answer from our POI and he stands by the empty legs being p91 with no duty time restrictions. They understand that the repos are paid by the customer but still don't concider it as 135.
With that said my company won't let us go past 14 for safety reasons.

 

[AOBLrJet]

a good topic for me since my head is spinning with this stuff. The other day I did a 14.5 hour duty day and just to be sure I wasn't breaking any rules I asked the CP what he earliest I could come on the next day for service. He said that the ten hours of rest only apply to the ten hours of flight restriction. I was under the impression that the 10 hours of flight is a hard rule never to be broken. From what I have learned over the years after you start going over the 14 hours of duty then extra rest has to be added on, is that not the case? I really dont think that he was listening, or unerstnding, so I showed a half hour late the next day just to be sure I was off duty for ten hours. I really don't put a lot of faith in the CP and now I am wondering any imput would be great thanks

 

[JJET44]

Actually no.

Your boss is right about the rest and you shouldn't have broken the 14 hour rule.
The 14 hour rule must not be broken (under p135).
The ten hour rule can, under certian conditions, be broken (WX delays, ATC etc.)
If you go over 10 hours, you must add one hour of rest for every 1/2 hour that you go over.
I'm almost certain of this but I could be wrong!!!!!