Any one hired at the majors under 23?

[bafanguy]

I'm new to flightinfo.com and find this particular thread interesting. I'm not sure why some of the "venom" for young hires is coming about. It's all just the luck of the draw. If YOU had a chance at a major at 22/23 with/without some edge, you wouldn't take it ? Well, then why shouldn't other people ?

I was one of the original SWA pilots in 1971 hired by Don Ogden and came from a failed non-sched where I'd flown DC-9's ( with most of the other original guys ) as I turned 24. Went with a major at 25 1/2 where it took me 15 years to make captain.

It's all just a roll of the dice. The guy who said it "brats...", come on, Pal.

 

[ScRaMJeT]

I bet I know who this is!

Hmmm... You know what, I bet this is Greg Crum. Captain Crum is this you?????

You earned your position at Southwest flying DC9's. Some of these "brats", they get lucky breaks simply because of who they know, or because of who there Pappa is, or maybe even how pretty she might be. I remember back when united was hiring, kids with 300 hours, then one of them almost flies a 747 into the side of a mountain. The captain who built up his experience flying the right way, uttered the words "Give it to me!!!", and he ended up saving the day. But it kinda makes me wonder.


P.S. Did Southwest really fly 727's? And if so did you fly them?

 

[350DRIVER]

P.S. Did Southwest really fly 727's? And if so did you fly them?

Yes they did, If I recall correctly they had 2 or 3 of them and it was more or less of an "experiment" that did not work out. They were not in service very long and they were on lease if my memory serves me correctly.


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[E-Man]

I started flying in high school, CFI when I was 19, flew AirNet 135 freight at 20 and got RJ FO at 21. I had great timing and some luck. But I also worked hard for it.
My dad plays the piano and my mother works in insurance. I'm the only pilot. Point is-Don't assume young guys get it made. I had some good timing, just that it happened when I was young and I'm grateful for it.

 

[bafanguy]

Gerg Crum ??? Nope...never heard of him. My dad was nobody but my dad, but I'm kinda pretty...maybe THAT's what did it !!! I was long gone by the time the 727's came along. I left SWA because if I didn't have to work for the likes of Lamar Muse, I wasn't going to. He told me one time too many, " If you don't like it here, you can leave." So, I did. That being said, if I could've known that he'd be gone shortly after I left, I'd STILL be there. The people I worked with at the startup were absolutely the finest bunch you can imagine and it was very hard to leave them. But, Muse made Lorenzo look like a good idea.

 

[HA25]

I think AA hired some that were around 21-22 back in '98-'99 when Cecil Ewell was CP.

Wasn't John Darrah hired at 21?? APA's Persident?

 

[ScRaMJeT]

Sorry Bafanguy,

I hope I didn't offend you with any of my comments. There's an old saying "hind sight is 20/20", i'm sure there are others that left also that excercise a little conceptualisitic pragmatism.

I'm glad you joined in on this post, because you have a way with words. You sound like someone I'd like to fly with.

When you mentioned that you were one of the original pilots hired at Southwest back in 1971, I thought you might have still been there. Greg Crum; I don't know what his back ground is, but I do know that he's been at Southwest a Looonnnggg time. I wish he would write a book, just like you, i'm sure he has many stories to tell.

ScramJet

 

[bafanguy]

SJ,

Absolutely no offense taken...honest. Retirement is a sobering event and causes a bit of "tallying up the results". I've always had a soft spot for SWA and have really enjoyed seeing their success over the years. First, I was happy to see my good friends and many of my heros end up their careers with such success...they deserved it. Many of them had come from hard-scrabble backgrounds but were absolutely fabulous aviators and great people.

Second, SWA is the classic American success story: find a niche and fill it...be smart...reward your people...work hard. They may be a victim of scale and the times at some point but they've certainly shown the industry how it's done. I can remember at the start, BNF, AMR, and TX Int'l were laughing at us...I don't believe I hear anyone laughing anymore !!

I got in 30+ years at a major, which is not a bad consolation prize, but none of those years ever had the sense of comraderie and common purpose I felt at SWA. All things considered, do I wish I'd stayed ? You bet I do !! I was one number junior to Bob Pratt and would've been #2 starting in the mid '70's until Bob retired recently...then I'd have been....but, that's life...make the choice...make the results.

Stay in touch.

 

[ultrarunner]

Young new hires at UAL

A guy I knew in college (actually took him out for his 21st B-day) I believe hired on with UAL soon after graduation. This would have been in '89 or so. He was a TWI intern.

Haven't talked with him in several years, but I suspect he's still there and is Cpt on something...

Anyone want to check their list for me? Send me a PM.

 

[LJDRVR]

Bob Pratt

The very first time I jumpseated on WN as a new Martinaire Caravan driver, Bob was the Captain. Nice guy. Looked like Wilford Brimley and flew like nobody's business. I remember the FO and the other jumpseater discussing schedules when the jumpseater gestured at the left seat and said to me with a grin: "Bob's number one." Cool....

 

[Helmsmen]

I was hired at TWA in 1989. I was 21 years old. I had 2700 hours in my logbook at that time. I made Captain at TWA when I was 32. I flew Captain on the B727, B717, and the MD80. Had TWA survived I would now be a B767 international Captain at 36. It can be done but alot of it is luck and being at the right place at the right time.

Helmsmen

 

[Flyinsolo]

One of my best college buddies was a UAL intern and ended up getting hired a month after graduation and just a few weeks before his 23 birthday as I recall it back in 1994. He only had 700-800 total time. Half of which he accumulated in the right seat of a King Air 200 as part of a paid co-op position. On top of that he by-passed the sideways seat at UAL and went directly to the 737-300. As time has gone by, we don't communicate as often. However, he progressed to the Airbus and then could have held captain at age 28, but chose the 777 right seat instead. One year later the USAir merger made him reconsider and take a captain slot on the 727 at age 29. Not sure where he is now after the furloughs, but I have no doubt he still has a "safe" job in the right seat of something.

The significance isn't his young age, but his "lack" of experience and/or dues paying in the eyes of most pilots. The point is he took advantage of every opportunity that came his way and made the best of it. Sure everything he touches may seemingly turn to gold, but he still had to pass all the same tests and interviews as any other new hire as well as pass all the checkrides through out his career despite his "lack" of flying experience especially in the early years.

 

[Flyinsolo]

A gift indeed

I never claimed he had enough experience to be a 737-300 right seater with 800 hours, but for some unknown reason UAL did. He did however manage to pass all the same tests as those in his class with 10 times his hours. Like it or not, he was somehow capable of performing. He worked his butt off to make the best of his limited experience that he possibly could. Basically, he took this huge "gift" and made something out of it. Of course it is all about luck and timing, but anyone of us would have done the samething if given he chance. Whether or not all of us would have been able to handle it with less than 800 hours experience is another question.

I don't deny it was a gift. It is what he did with that gift that matters.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Helmsmen:

Your initials wouldn't be BS would they ?

Typhoonpilot

 

[typhoonpilot]

Just to keep up the spirit of the thread; hired by a major at 24, furloughed by major at 26, DC-9 Captain ( non-sched ) at 28.

At my present company there are some very young A330 and B777 Captains, have to check around to see who the youngest is though.

Typhoonpilot

 

[ILStoMinimums]

Just to keep up the spirit of the thread; hired by a major at 24, furloughed by major at 26, DC-9 Captain ( non-sched ) at 28.

At my present company there are some very young A330 and B777 Captains, have to check around to see who the youngest is though.

Typhoonpilot

How young is young now-a-days?

 

[typhoonpilot]

Early 30s. Not too bad to be that age and in the left seat of a widebody.

Typhoonpilot

 

[I fLy pLaNeS]

I mean, how old do you have to be to drive a farm tractor? [/B]

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