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Any furloughees hired by SWA?
- Thread starter Turbojet
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furlodpilot
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I have one buddy furloughed (but now recalled) at DAL that did not pass the SWA interview...wouldn't think he would have not passed as he was hired a few years back by SWA and turned them down to go to DAL...it was the earliest class date offered. I have heard turning them down once hurts you...of course maybe the announcement of the DAL recall hurt him, too...maybe he drooled a lot at the interview, too...
Reality 101
Reality 101
There have been folks who have interviewed who are either furloughed or currently flying with other carriers. As stated earlier some of these folks have been offered jobs but I don't know of any who turned down SWA at an earlier point & now have been offered employment by SWA . For those who have never applied at SWA or never came for an interview I would believe you may (again only my opinion) be viewed in a slightly different light than your following peer group. For those who earlier in their career were chosen by SWA to continue the process and were either offered a class and accepted it or turned it down or were on property & left SWA to go to another carrier, the reality is this is a tough hurdle to climb in terms of convincing the Decision Board (not necessarily the interviewers) you are now serious about Southwest.
My knowledge of the folks (all great folks) who sit on the decision board are they genuinely concerned about hiring the right folks, with the right attitude and are willing to view folks from all sorts of background when it comes to making the final offer. Pilots who were either offered employment at SWA in the past & turned it down (for reasons of going to another carrier) or were actually on the property and left for another carrier might be viewed by some as persons as only being interested in SWA more for the fact we are a solvent company than for the reasons one is a good match with the culture. Expediency of the moment/times might be the overriding motive...if we weren't appealing before, could it be for something other than reasons that may not be very enduring?
The perception by some could be that if your carrier recovers from hard times will you be inclined to return to the ranks of them since the question of loyality to two carriers has been proven to not be a factor? I will not begin to presume I know the inner thoughts of folks and I know the DB folks & the PD folks don't know either. I'm simply trying to broach a difficult subject for those few who may find themselves in this circumstance and wonder what challenges they may face in applying at SWA.
I would encourage all qualified candidates to apply. Please don't take any of my thoughts or comments above to imply any applicants are pre-judged, not worthy of coming to SWA ore are somehow unprofessional aviators....they are not. However, as the title of this comment is labeled "Reality 101" I wanted to provide my thoughts on the matter as I have been asked by others who have PM'd me about this topic. Have we had folks hired in the latest round who had accepted employment at SWA in the past, left to go somewhere else & now reapplied with success? I don't know but if there are I would say attaboy, you must have done quite well at the interviews & had a record 2nd to none.
My opinion is only that and doesn't mean squat when it comes to Southwest.....good thing, my opioions don't mean much at my house either so there you have it!!!
__________________
chase
Reality 101
There have been folks who have interviewed who are either furloughed or currently flying with other carriers. As stated earlier some of these folks have been offered jobs but I don't know of any who turned down SWA at an earlier point & now have been offered employment by SWA . For those who have never applied at SWA or never came for an interview I would believe you may (again only my opinion) be viewed in a slightly different light than your following peer group. For those who earlier in their career were chosen by SWA to continue the process and were either offered a class and accepted it or turned it down or were on property & left SWA to go to another carrier, the reality is this is a tough hurdle to climb in terms of convincing the Decision Board (not necessarily the interviewers) you are now serious about Southwest.
My knowledge of the folks (all great folks) who sit on the decision board are they genuinely concerned about hiring the right folks, with the right attitude and are willing to view folks from all sorts of background when it comes to making the final offer. Pilots who were either offered employment at SWA in the past & turned it down (for reasons of going to another carrier) or were actually on the property and left for another carrier might be viewed by some as persons as only being interested in SWA more for the fact we are a solvent company than for the reasons one is a good match with the culture. Expediency of the moment/times might be the overriding motive...if we weren't appealing before, could it be for something other than reasons that may not be very enduring?
The perception by some could be that if your carrier recovers from hard times will you be inclined to return to the ranks of them since the question of loyality to two carriers has been proven to not be a factor? I will not begin to presume I know the inner thoughts of folks and I know the DB folks & the PD folks don't know either. I'm simply trying to broach a difficult subject for those few who may find themselves in this circumstance and wonder what challenges they may face in applying at SWA.
I would encourage all qualified candidates to apply. Please don't take any of my thoughts or comments above to imply any applicants are pre-judged, not worthy of coming to SWA ore are somehow unprofessional aviators....they are not. However, as the title of this comment is labeled "Reality 101" I wanted to provide my thoughts on the matter as I have been asked by others who have PM'd me about this topic. Have we had folks hired in the latest round who had accepted employment at SWA in the past, left to go somewhere else & now reapplied with success? I don't know but if there are I would say attaboy, you must have done quite well at the interviews & had a record 2nd to none.
My opinion is only that and doesn't mean squat when it comes to Southwest.....good thing, my opioions don't mean much at my house either so there you have it!!!
__________________
chase
mother fokker
Member
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2002
- Posts
- 13
Oh, have times changed!!!
Thank you for your perspective Chase,
O.K. I 'll beat anybody to the "Chase", ironic heh...; if hindsight is 20/20, I'am an idiot in the eyes of the forum groupies Imagine, yourself in the year 2000. Just hired on at SWA, relatively young age 28. Landing your dream job, drop it all after a year at SWA you go to DAL, no more commuting, better job, then... furloughed. While at SWA, the majority of Captain's, you fly with (morale sucks, mind you) say,until JS arrives, of course, then it is all smiles, "hey moron why are you working here? get on with the majors while you still can."
My question is this???, SWA= no pension, no health insurance after 60, a pilot contract that is convoluted as the day is long, a CEO that cannot neogtiate with the FA's, unless Herb comes back.
I think I do have a valid question?? Why are so many pilots in this industry, so eager to give up hard earned rights as a collective group, that generations of pilots that have fought and in some cases died for, just to make a manangement group in Dallas rich??? All the while getting their rocks off at 410, giving PA's to the folks "That you are now free to move about the country."
We turn our heads while carriers like US AIR are pushed to the brink, so long benefits. Why do we give up so much just to be cool enough to fly a F%CK**g 737???...
In regards to this lame thread, it is not whether furloughed guys and gals have the right stuff to work at SWA, in the opinion of some forum dork, I think the important question is what the hell we are doing to our profession????
Thank you for your perspective Chase,
O.K. I 'll beat anybody to the "Chase", ironic heh...; if hindsight is 20/20, I'am an idiot in the eyes of the forum groupies Imagine, yourself in the year 2000. Just hired on at SWA, relatively young age 28. Landing your dream job, drop it all after a year at SWA you go to DAL, no more commuting, better job, then... furloughed. While at SWA, the majority of Captain's, you fly with (morale sucks, mind you) say,until JS arrives, of course, then it is all smiles, "hey moron why are you working here? get on with the majors while you still can."
My question is this???, SWA= no pension, no health insurance after 60, a pilot contract that is convoluted as the day is long, a CEO that cannot neogtiate with the FA's, unless Herb comes back.
I think I do have a valid question?? Why are so many pilots in this industry, so eager to give up hard earned rights as a collective group, that generations of pilots that have fought and in some cases died for, just to make a manangement group in Dallas rich??? All the while getting their rocks off at 410, giving PA's to the folks "That you are now free to move about the country."
We turn our heads while carriers like US AIR are pushed to the brink, so long benefits. Why do we give up so much just to be cool enough to fly a F%CK**g 737???...
In regards to this lame thread, it is not whether furloughed guys and gals have the right stuff to work at SWA, in the opinion of some forum dork, I think the important question is what the hell we are doing to our profession????
UALjan15
Uniform Swapper
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2002
- Posts
- 257
Fokker,
It's really as simple as this: Pilots are starting to realize that if they would like to stay with the same airline for their whole career, it would help if that airline were run like a real business. When you have to start over somewhere because your airline's management ran it into the ground, that's a tough pill to swallow. The SWA pilot formula of high pay (for Guppies, at least), efficient trips, no furloughs, strong growth, and profits every quarter sounds good to a lot of folks right now, especially those of us that are on the street.
I would love it if my old airline (UAL) could thrive under Contract 2000 on top of all of their other inefficiencies. I do hope the DAL group can keep their pay up so we all have something to shoot for. I think it would be great if all of the pilot groups at the LCC's and feeders could raise their respective bars and bring the pay, benefits, and work rules back. I don't think it is going to happen, but maybe if I had some of what you were smoking, it might seem possible.
I don't have your perspective of working for both a LCC and a major. You do, and I am surprised at your stance. All I can say is that I was shocked at how poorly run my airline was. It was an embarassment to the business world. The bankruptcy was no shock at all. Will it turn around? I honestly don't know.
Can a major global carrier can make a go of it and thrive in today's market? The bottom line is that they have to get close to the costs of their competition, but offer more to the customer. From the pilot's perspective, I think having the luxury of an A and B plan is not going to fly for much longer. The average hours flown per pilot will have to go up (already happening). There needs to be a compensation package that can flex with the business cycle (i.e. profit sharing). And finally, the airline needs the flexibility to match the right size jet to the market, whether that be a 50 or a 350 seater (although cheap wages on small jets should not be what drives mainline type jets out of a market). There is a lot more to it, but I guess that we are going to meet in some middle ground between the LCCs and the majors. We shall see......
It's really as simple as this: Pilots are starting to realize that if they would like to stay with the same airline for their whole career, it would help if that airline were run like a real business. When you have to start over somewhere because your airline's management ran it into the ground, that's a tough pill to swallow. The SWA pilot formula of high pay (for Guppies, at least), efficient trips, no furloughs, strong growth, and profits every quarter sounds good to a lot of folks right now, especially those of us that are on the street.
I would love it if my old airline (UAL) could thrive under Contract 2000 on top of all of their other inefficiencies. I do hope the DAL group can keep their pay up so we all have something to shoot for. I think it would be great if all of the pilot groups at the LCC's and feeders could raise their respective bars and bring the pay, benefits, and work rules back. I don't think it is going to happen, but maybe if I had some of what you were smoking, it might seem possible.
I don't have your perspective of working for both a LCC and a major. You do, and I am surprised at your stance. All I can say is that I was shocked at how poorly run my airline was. It was an embarassment to the business world. The bankruptcy was no shock at all. Will it turn around? I honestly don't know.
Can a major global carrier can make a go of it and thrive in today's market? The bottom line is that they have to get close to the costs of their competition, but offer more to the customer. From the pilot's perspective, I think having the luxury of an A and B plan is not going to fly for much longer. The average hours flown per pilot will have to go up (already happening). There needs to be a compensation package that can flex with the business cycle (i.e. profit sharing). And finally, the airline needs the flexibility to match the right size jet to the market, whether that be a 50 or a 350 seater (although cheap wages on small jets should not be what drives mainline type jets out of a market). There is a lot more to it, but I guess that we are going to meet in some middle ground between the LCCs and the majors. We shall see......
SWAdude
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2003
- Posts
- 634
Dear UALJan15
Making a decision (a difficult one I'm sure) to leave SWA for UAL in the timeframe you did was not something that just you did, others at SWA and I'm sure other carriers did also. Using hindsight to judge whether moves are foolish or not is a luxury reserved for those who can read the future. I would think if you had that power you would not have made that move but you did, based upon the best information and priorities you had in life...for that no one deserves to question or critique them. Each individual has to decide what will make them happy and work to achieve that goal. None of us have made brilliant career moves 100% of the time, it is merely sometimes the consequences of those decisions are far greater to some of us than to others....no blame, no fault, just the reality of timing and life's events on our lives.
I wish you well in your goal of re-entering the ranks of the flying if you aren't already. I'm sure this has been a soul-searching and life altering event (911, bankruptcy, furloughes) and I wish for you and your family the best and that you return to full employment soon.
As for market wages and what is happening to the airline industry. I, you or other pilots will have less and less to do with what market wages are paid to the pilot. In my opinion the slow deregulation of the airline industry (it is still ongoing & needs to have more occur in my opinion) will continue to allow the free market system, i.e. the customer and the marketplace to determine what wages are earned by pilots.
Southwest is aware of this system and I hope our employees continue to be reminded they (the customers) are after all the ones who determine how much will be paid for a particular ticket. If airline employees and management don't do the necessary things to keep spiraling wages/costs down, then we at Southwest will be in no different of a location in several years that current legacy carriers find themselves in. That is why winglets, employee buyouts, automation, fuel hedging, increased employee efficiency are all little things in terms of costs but when added together, they are the "mechanism" that makes our product priced at a level the consumer finds enticing and affordable & wishes to buy!!!
Oh, by the way, good customer service goes without saying and fortunately we still provide that. If Southwest employees and management ever forget this, then we will march down the same path of some legacy carriers. I hope Southwest learns from this dark period of time in the aviation history and for the aviation professional, don't believe for a minute if someone tells you the days of high salaried pilots (we are the highest paid of all employee groups but all groups will see an eroding of some wage/benefit scales in my opinion), consistent waste and inefficiencies of carriers with domestic hub/spoke systems will ever return again....the market forces won't allow it, i.e. the customer won't pay for it.
If the life your father or uncle had in the airline industry is the one you want today I'm sorry to say you will find yourself longing for an unobtainable goal. However, for me personally, the life I've chosen & current live along with the benefits I receive are still so vastly superior to the average and above average person I find exceptionally little to complain about. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty out there who still won't complain but that's their choice in life. Could I want more? Sure. Can I be lumped in the group who wish to pull down the entire industry? Ok, whatever floats your boat but I'm also a realist but that doesn't make me beter or worse than other professionals who hold different opinions but the labels may fly anyway. Again UALJan15, good luck to you and your family, God Bless. cheers
Making a decision (a difficult one I'm sure) to leave SWA for UAL in the timeframe you did was not something that just you did, others at SWA and I'm sure other carriers did also. Using hindsight to judge whether moves are foolish or not is a luxury reserved for those who can read the future. I would think if you had that power you would not have made that move but you did, based upon the best information and priorities you had in life...for that no one deserves to question or critique them. Each individual has to decide what will make them happy and work to achieve that goal. None of us have made brilliant career moves 100% of the time, it is merely sometimes the consequences of those decisions are far greater to some of us than to others....no blame, no fault, just the reality of timing and life's events on our lives.
I wish you well in your goal of re-entering the ranks of the flying if you aren't already. I'm sure this has been a soul-searching and life altering event (911, bankruptcy, furloughes) and I wish for you and your family the best and that you return to full employment soon.
As for market wages and what is happening to the airline industry. I, you or other pilots will have less and less to do with what market wages are paid to the pilot. In my opinion the slow deregulation of the airline industry (it is still ongoing & needs to have more occur in my opinion) will continue to allow the free market system, i.e. the customer and the marketplace to determine what wages are earned by pilots.
Southwest is aware of this system and I hope our employees continue to be reminded they (the customers) are after all the ones who determine how much will be paid for a particular ticket. If airline employees and management don't do the necessary things to keep spiraling wages/costs down, then we at Southwest will be in no different of a location in several years that current legacy carriers find themselves in. That is why winglets, employee buyouts, automation, fuel hedging, increased employee efficiency are all little things in terms of costs but when added together, they are the "mechanism" that makes our product priced at a level the consumer finds enticing and affordable & wishes to buy!!!
Oh, by the way, good customer service goes without saying and fortunately we still provide that. If Southwest employees and management ever forget this, then we will march down the same path of some legacy carriers. I hope Southwest learns from this dark period of time in the aviation history and for the aviation professional, don't believe for a minute if someone tells you the days of high salaried pilots (we are the highest paid of all employee groups but all groups will see an eroding of some wage/benefit scales in my opinion), consistent waste and inefficiencies of carriers with domestic hub/spoke systems will ever return again....the market forces won't allow it, i.e. the customer won't pay for it.
If the life your father or uncle had in the airline industry is the one you want today I'm sorry to say you will find yourself longing for an unobtainable goal. However, for me personally, the life I've chosen & current live along with the benefits I receive are still so vastly superior to the average and above average person I find exceptionally little to complain about. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty out there who still won't complain but that's their choice in life. Could I want more? Sure. Can I be lumped in the group who wish to pull down the entire industry? Ok, whatever floats your boat but I'm also a realist but that doesn't make me beter or worse than other professionals who hold different opinions but the labels may fly anyway. Again UALJan15, good luck to you and your family, God Bless. cheers
Back to the Question ...
Despite Fokker's attempt to poison this thread ...
I know a friend who was actively flying for America West when he was hired at SWA (within the last year). I also have a friend who is currently furloughed UAL who was just interviewed/hired at SWA. As Chase has mentioned, I do not know of anyone who turned down an employment offer from us previously who has now been hired; however, that certainly does not mean it hasn't happened. I'm just not aware of it.
If you want to work for SWA, throw your hat in the ring, no matter what your circumstances are. I believe it you fit the mold, we'll hire you.
Good Luck to all ...
KJ
Despite Fokker's attempt to poison this thread ...
I know a friend who was actively flying for America West when he was hired at SWA (within the last year). I also have a friend who is currently furloughed UAL who was just interviewed/hired at SWA. As Chase has mentioned, I do not know of anyone who turned down an employment offer from us previously who has now been hired; however, that certainly does not mean it hasn't happened. I'm just not aware of it.
If you want to work for SWA, throw your hat in the ring, no matter what your circumstances are. I believe it you fit the mold, we'll hire you.
Good Luck to all ...
KJ
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