Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Anti PFT - You're all whores!

  • Thread starter Thread starter jethro
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 14

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Are you saying that since my $6000 was reimbursed it doesn't count as PFT?

That is like comparing apples to grapes. It was reimbursed so how is that the same practice as buying a seat for 250 hours or so, being shuttled to a RJ operator that has agreement with airline. I believe there is a major difference and feel that the future generation pf pilots should realize that no positive will come from buying a job.


Or are you saying you're not aware ASA was running a PFT program through FlightSafety at the time?

I was aware of that since when I completed the COEX program they were doing the same for the 120's. I do believe they still have a program through FSI for a lot more.?


3 5 0
 
In the spring of 2000 I was talking to the instructor recruiter at FSI about the ASA program. I wasn't thinking of it as PFT since it was a real job that I had to work several hundred hours out of the fish bowl to complete. It would have meant relocation and other expenses, and as I explained in another thread, staying at the old field seemed right at the time. Heck I could have ended up flying with you.

Scary, huh? :D
 
350DRIVER said:
We have a few people who had to buy there jobs from Gulfjoke who frequent this board and possibly they can shed some light on how they are treated by others within the profession.:cool: But guess what, it was only a little over $18,000 to rent the right seat of a 1900 out and now they get to fly a shiny new RJ. woo hoo.:D


PFT is highly looked down upon by most in this industry but I guess if you have less than average flying skills then you can always write the check out to buy the job versus earning it the hard way like most of us have done..


3 5 0

Ahhh 350, you called? :D

I hate to tell you but my treatment within this industry has not been anything like what you would love to believe. No denied jumpseats, no getting slam-clicked on overnights, etc. I've nary gotten a disparaging remark.....

Now does that mean everyone likes PFT? Hell no!

But people know when to keep thier personal views out of the cockpit. And outside of the cockpit, I welcome anyone to engage in a PFT discussion with me, but the occasion has not risen. I don't keep my past at GIA hidden. I know that a majority of pilots would love to see PFT go the way of the dinosaurs. But I sure as hell won't lie to them that I PFT'ed. If I did and they found out, I'd look even more stupid in thier eyes.

Now as for your usual argument that PFT'ers are usually "Mediocre" is so sompletely unfounded. I won't say that everyone that PFT's is a great pilot, but that is so true of ANY pilot group. Every group has bad apples, granted. But making a blanket statement like that shows blatant immaturity.

Enjoy your 8 days off at Mesa!!!
 
Last edited:
Timebuilder said:
Heck I could have ended up flying with you. Scary, huh?
Timebuilder, "you can be my wingman anytime." (Iceman, 1986) :D
 
Enjoy your 8 days off at Mesa!!!

Not "my" 8 days slick, obviously your inability to realize that I am not Mesa does not surprise me. Anyone who rents a 1900 seat out I surely understand.

3 5 0

>>enjoy your long seat lock.:D
 
350DRIVER said:
Not "my" 8 days slick, obviously your inability to realize that I am not Mesa does not surprise me. Anyone who rents a 1900 seat out I surely understand.

3 5 0

>>enjoy your long seat lock.:D

Well considering you have been a strong proponent of MESA in the past, I figured you were. Sorry I don't keep tabs on your career theese days, Slick.

Considering my "Seat Lock" is due to age, not TT, I'm doing fine thanks.
 
The problem with Jethro's point of view is that a no-holds-barred competition for jobs which ensure the safety of people poses a danger to society. Consider the engineer, doctor, or pilot who bribed his way into the job, and is responsible for the safety of customers. Do you want that doctor operating on your mother's heart? Or that pilot flying her home to see you? Or that engineer building the bridge which she crosses on her way to work?
 
Ok,
Here is more food for thought.

On the above post, a point.

1. Both Doctors and lawyers usually have to intern at gulfstream wages, "probationary" pilot wages. (the 250 hr. program people) before they are granted full authority for the job that is given. They also do it for a significantly longer period of time than the gia program. Guess all doctors are really big whores. We all know lawyers are.

As for other posts...

Is the program great for the industry, I now, would say no. Will I PFT, yes. Have I come across pilots who have strong negative opinions about it, yes. Do I care, yes. Have I come across pilots that also voice positive opinions, yes. Do I think I am better than any other pilot, no. Do I think I am worse than other pilots who gained experiece in other areas, no. I myself have worked in other areas, inlcuding 135, and without PFT, or "buying" the job. But to say that I cut the line to the "RJ", while screwing other qualified pilots is a load of sh.it. I paid for gulfjoke with my hard earned money. Just like a Doctor, who pays for his nice million dollar home, guess those guys cut the line to the nice houses, and screwed the other home buyers who didn't spend years getting educated, to earn the bucks. I used my money to gain training. Did I take the place of a paid pilot. NO. Why, because s.hitstream was formed to operate that way. The airline was designed specifically for the "FO" program. Not really for any other purpose. There never would have been another paid pilot. If the program did not exist, gia would be single pilot ops.

PFT/J/GIA/PACE, whatever, are NOT responsible for the low regional wages. This is another load of sh#t. I don't see any 2000 hour instructors demanding 30,000 a year for a starting salary at a regional. I think all regional pilots deserve alot more money, and come time I will walk a picket line to get more money.

Do I expect to convince anybody that PFT is OK, NO. I don't want to. But there are many decent people, who are not evil because they PFT'd. Many spent their hard earned money to live a dream, only to find out they weren't good enough to pass a checkride. You cannot buy your way into a regional airline. Everybody has to pass a checkride, outside of gulfstream.

What PFT does do, is gives airlines a right to expect pilots to either train for free, or give them cause to expect pilots to pay for their training, and that is what is wrong with PFT.

And for the rich kids who had their parents pay for gulfstream, guess they are evil too for their parents having money. God forbid the parents want their kids to succeed in their dream, and be well trained. Screw those as*holes.

This message board is one place that nobody will EVER agree on one thing. Gotta love it. We all should be in congress.

Maybe some of us can buy our way in. :D :D
 
Last edited:
Exception taken

aview1 said:
Both Doctors and lawyers usually have to intern at gulfstream wages, "probationary" pilot wages. (the 250 hr. program people) before they are granted full authority for the job that is given.
That's completely untrue. At least where I live, new associate attorneys right out of law school earn far more than Gulfstream FOs, and particularly the $8/hour P-F-T variety. New associate attorneys make at least $30K per year. More typical is $40K - $70K. Some make as much as six figures at some of the downtown firms. I cannot speak for doctors.
Guess all doctors are really big whores. We all know lawyers are.
I've worked for attorneys for nine years. Your comments about new attorney pay are clearly misinformed and your comment above confirms it. It is untrue and unfair and you should retract it immediately.
 
Last edited:
Look Mr B.,

Even though you and I strongly disagree about this PFT issue, I am sure you are an intelligent person. I went to college on the East Coast, the school I graduated from has an extremely well known law school, as well as pre-med/med.

My comments about doctors and lawyers being whores was in tongue and cheek.

Back to the subject, I do not know any interns from my college that have EVER made anywhere near the figures you quoted. Infact most interns I knew made 14 dollars per hour. The gia people that I know made 11. Pretty d.amn close, and NOWHERE near 30/40 K.

If anybody wants to know about the crap doctors go through to make the "line", do a little homework. They are in the same pay range when they intern.

I have the utmost respect for doctors, I cannot say the same for lawyers. I have worked with them for years.
 
Last edited:
Re: Exception taken

aview1[/i] [b]Both Doctors and lawyers usually have to intern at gulfstream wages said:
That's completely untrue.
It may be untrue about lawyers, Bobby, but it's certainly true about doctors. My ex-girlfriend's father was a M.D. He told me many stories about how he had to stretch dollars to the breaking point when he was just getting started. (At one point he discovered that beer was cheaper than milk and was not too dissimilar nutritionally...made for some interesting breakfasts. :eek: )
 
____________________________________________________

Originally posted by aview1
Both Doctors and lawyers usually have to intern at gulfstream wages, "probationary" pilot wages. (the 250 hr. program people) before they are granted full authority for the job that is given.

____________________________________________________

GET REAL....


I guess it would truly take ignorance in it's best form to attempt trying to sell this Bu!!Sh!t. The whores who "bought" a job are always going to try or attempt to justify what they did so the post really does not surprise me.



If anybody wants to know about the crap doctors go through to make the "line", do a liitle homework. They are in the same range when they intern.


I have some good friends who are currently in practice at the Cleveland Clinic and I can tell you first hand that you are way off. Comparing a Gulfstream whore to a doctor, just when I thought I have seen it all.:D


3 5 0
 
Who said anything about comparing the two in any other means other than pay. You are incorrect about intern wages though, AS I WAS ONE ONCE IN D.C. before I was sent over seas with the MIL. But I will let you stay on your high hoarse, because you are a superior pilot to all.

Anybody who disagrees with a persons path to the cockpit is well within their rights. To bash them morally as human beings just makes you an as*hole.

I served my country in a cockpit, have you all mighty one.
 
The median expected salary for a typical Cardiologist - Invasive in Los Angeles, CA, is $283,351. This basic market pricing report was prepared using our Certified Compensation Professionals' analysis of survey data collected from thousands of HR departments at employers of all sizes, industries and geographies.


The "more likely" figures are much higher.

"Intern pay" as you have stated is incorrect and does not reflect the compensation that is recieved.

3 5 0
 
350DRIVER said:
Comparing a Gulfstream whore to a doctor...
Agreed. There's no comparison.

My point was that the first-year wages are not dissimilar!
 
Last edited:
Interns

aview1 said:
Back to the subject, I do not know any interns from my college that have EVER made anywhere near the figures you quoted. Infact most interns I knew made 14 dollars per hour
Then what do you mean by "interns"? Law clerks? If that's what you mean, then you are correct. But if you read carefully what I wrote above, I was referring to new associate attorneys, i.e. not law clerks. Some do command the salary I wrote. Here again, I know what I'm talking about, from my own experience and that of my wife, who was a law librarian for twenty-eight years in a law school and with two lawfirms, one of which is paying the starting salary I wrote.

Your assessment of my intelligence level is appreciated. Your generalization of the legal profession is regretted.
 
Last edited:
aview1 said:
There never would have been another paid pilot. If the program did not exist, gia would be single pilot ops.

Really? No kidding? Single pilot passenger carrying ops under Part 121?

Huh ! I guess there truly is no limit to the self delusion you folks will indulge in to rationalize your paying for a seat.
 
Huh ! I guess there truly is no limit to the self delusion you folks will indulge in to rationalize your paying for a seat.

These folks who "whored" out and bought a seat will stop at nothing when trying to justify the action. The sad thing is that they are being laughed at and not respected by most within the industry. Fortunately most can look in the mirror every morning and be thankful of the route that we took to get to where we are present day.

Anybody who disagrees with a persons path to the cockpit is well within their rights. To bash them morally as human beings just makes you an as*hole.

Anyone who has to be a whore to get a job is also an a$$hole. Nothing like "buying" your way into a 1900.

3 5 0
 
Aview1, I am confused. If you served your country in the cockpit than how come you had to go to gulfjoke to get a RJ job, you should have already been more than qualified based on your military flight training.

Also doctors get paid to be interns, while not alot they get paid. They are not paying for training like whores at gulfstream.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top