AV8OR
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
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This an excerpt from an article on the AOL start-up page. Here's the link.
http://aolpf5.marketwatch.com/news/...-BBC8-63D351A3BF2A}&siteid=aolpf&dist=special
"Fair compensation" is a relative term, yet HR consultants and executive headhunters agree some jobs command excessive pay that can't be explained by labor supply-and-demand imbalances.
And while it's easy to argue chief executives, lawyers and movie stars are overpaid, reality is not that cut and dried.
Corporate attorneys earn $500-plus an hour and plaintiffs lawyers pocket a third of big personal-injury settlements, but local prosecutors and public defenders get paid little in comparison. Specialty surgeons may earn $1 million or more, while some family-practice doctors are hard-pressed to pay off medical-school loans.
Hollywood stars making $20 million a movie or $10 million per TV-season qualify for many people's overpaid list. But for every one of those actors and actresses, there are a thousand waiting tables and taking bit movie parts or regional theater roles awaiting a big break that never comes.
"A lot of people are overpaid because there are certain things consumers just don't want screwed up," said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation for Salary.com. "You wouldn't want to board a plane flown by a second-rate pilot or hire a cheap wedding photographer to record an event you hope happens once in your lifetime.
"With pro athletes, one owner is willing to pay big money for a star player and then all the other players want to keep up with the Joneses," Coleman said. "The art with CEO pay is making sure your CEO is above the median -- and you see where that goes."
What follows is a list of the 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S., in reverse order, drafted with input from compensation experts:
10) Wedding photographers
Photographers earn a national average of $1,900 for a wedding, though many charge $2,500 to $5,000 for a one-day shoot, client meeting and processing time that runs up to 20 hours or more, and the cost of materials.
The overpaid ones are the many who admit they only do weddings for the income, while quietly complaining about the hassle of dealing with hysterical brides and drunken reception guests. They mope through the job with the attitude: "I'm just doing this for the money until Time or National Geographic calls."
Much of their work is mediocre as result. Have often have you really been wowed flipping the pages of a wedding album handed you by recent newlyweds? Photographers who long for the day they can say "I don't do weddings" should leave the work to the dedicated ones who do.
9) Major airline pilots
While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.
By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands."
And here was my responsive e-mail.
"Mr. Plummer, I have been a pilot for 16 years and am 37 years old. I paid 25K for my training and then had the opportunity to make about 18K/year logging hours as a flight instructor and trying to keep my students from killing the both of us. After that, I flew single engine freight out of Atlanta Hartsfield, then air ambulance and twin cargo. After that I was hired as a corporate jet co-pilot who flew every trip and cleaned the aircraft and emptied the lavatory when the aircraft returned. After that I flew for a Fortune 500 company before taking a pay cut to go to work for American Eagle for around 20K/year. Finally, after flying for 14 years, and supplementing my income at times by shoveling horse stalls, cutting grass, and raising hogs, I was hired by a major airline, a cargo airline, where I still took a pay cut. At my airline I won't be eligible to make that level of pay for at least thirteen more years. I'll be ten years from my government mandated retirement at age 60, statistically I will loose at least 2 years off my life from changing time zones and flying at night. Meanwhile I have friends who are in sales that have been making that kind of money for years, some, not long after college. The aircarft I fly now is the oldest aircarft I have ever flown, designed in the 60's, but when we eventually upgrade to newer equipment, I will need to dump all of that aircarft knowledge and start over on totally different systems. Every 6 mos. I am re-evaluated and have the opportunity to loose my job, either through a loss of a medical certificate or failure of a check ride. I fly goods and services for our military in very hostile teritory and do so voluntarily.
As for automation, that is a measure of efficiency for the aircraft and airline and in no way indicates the potential obstacles a pilot might face during the course of a day or night. I am paid not to fly an automated aircraft from A to B, but to ensure that when and if the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hits the fan, I/we, know how to handle it in a way that may save lives aboard the aircraft and on the ground. If you are really intersted in what a pilot's job is, you might want to do a word search on United Airlines at Sioux City and DHL Airways at Mexico City. In the latter, an entire load of Air France 777 pax were spared by the "automation" of three quick acting crew members, with not so much as even a friggin "thank you" from Air France.
We are an easy target for guys like you. In the days of PanAM a pilots wages and lifestyle were actually better for that day than they are now. The fact is you might want to consider a paradigm shift towards comapring us to a anesthesiologist. I don't charge hardly anything for getting the craft off the ground, you mostly pay me for making sure, not matter what, it gets safely back on the ground.
One other thing. If new aircraft automation is making our jobs so much easier, why is it that airline and corporate jet insurance premiums are going up while at the same time requiring MORE, not less, experience to fly these machines "that technology has made almost fully automated."
Let's be honest and just say that all this crap about being overpaid sounds like a time honored way to just stir the social pot of class envy. I personally think internet reporters who produce nothing more than social commentary disguised as "news" are probably even more overpaid than pilots, and hey, that's just my opinion, probably backed up with a similar volume of research.
One other thing. I want the mechanics on the aircraft I fly to be the most competent professionals we can find, and I think they should be compensated accordingly. They do an awesome job."
Just thought there might be others that wanted to rattle this guys cage a little as well.
http://aolpf5.marketwatch.com/news/...-BBC8-63D351A3BF2A}&siteid=aolpf&dist=special
"Fair compensation" is a relative term, yet HR consultants and executive headhunters agree some jobs command excessive pay that can't be explained by labor supply-and-demand imbalances.
And while it's easy to argue chief executives, lawyers and movie stars are overpaid, reality is not that cut and dried.
Corporate attorneys earn $500-plus an hour and plaintiffs lawyers pocket a third of big personal-injury settlements, but local prosecutors and public defenders get paid little in comparison. Specialty surgeons may earn $1 million or more, while some family-practice doctors are hard-pressed to pay off medical-school loans.
Hollywood stars making $20 million a movie or $10 million per TV-season qualify for many people's overpaid list. But for every one of those actors and actresses, there are a thousand waiting tables and taking bit movie parts or regional theater roles awaiting a big break that never comes.
"A lot of people are overpaid because there are certain things consumers just don't want screwed up," said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation for Salary.com. "You wouldn't want to board a plane flown by a second-rate pilot or hire a cheap wedding photographer to record an event you hope happens once in your lifetime.
"With pro athletes, one owner is willing to pay big money for a star player and then all the other players want to keep up with the Joneses," Coleman said. "The art with CEO pay is making sure your CEO is above the median -- and you see where that goes."
What follows is a list of the 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S., in reverse order, drafted with input from compensation experts:
10) Wedding photographers
Photographers earn a national average of $1,900 for a wedding, though many charge $2,500 to $5,000 for a one-day shoot, client meeting and processing time that runs up to 20 hours or more, and the cost of materials.
The overpaid ones are the many who admit they only do weddings for the income, while quietly complaining about the hassle of dealing with hysterical brides and drunken reception guests. They mope through the job with the attitude: "I'm just doing this for the money until Time or National Geographic calls."
Much of their work is mediocre as result. Have often have you really been wowed flipping the pages of a wedding album handed you by recent newlyweds? Photographers who long for the day they can say "I don't do weddings" should leave the work to the dedicated ones who do.
9) Major airline pilots
While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.
By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.
The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. In what amounts to a per-passenger commission, the larger the plane, the more they earn - even though it takes little more skill to pilot a jumbo jet. It's as much the airplane mechanics who hold our fate in their hands."
And here was my responsive e-mail.
"Mr. Plummer, I have been a pilot for 16 years and am 37 years old. I paid 25K for my training and then had the opportunity to make about 18K/year logging hours as a flight instructor and trying to keep my students from killing the both of us. After that, I flew single engine freight out of Atlanta Hartsfield, then air ambulance and twin cargo. After that I was hired as a corporate jet co-pilot who flew every trip and cleaned the aircraft and emptied the lavatory when the aircraft returned. After that I flew for a Fortune 500 company before taking a pay cut to go to work for American Eagle for around 20K/year. Finally, after flying for 14 years, and supplementing my income at times by shoveling horse stalls, cutting grass, and raising hogs, I was hired by a major airline, a cargo airline, where I still took a pay cut. At my airline I won't be eligible to make that level of pay for at least thirteen more years. I'll be ten years from my government mandated retirement at age 60, statistically I will loose at least 2 years off my life from changing time zones and flying at night. Meanwhile I have friends who are in sales that have been making that kind of money for years, some, not long after college. The aircarft I fly now is the oldest aircarft I have ever flown, designed in the 60's, but when we eventually upgrade to newer equipment, I will need to dump all of that aircarft knowledge and start over on totally different systems. Every 6 mos. I am re-evaluated and have the opportunity to loose my job, either through a loss of a medical certificate or failure of a check ride. I fly goods and services for our military in very hostile teritory and do so voluntarily.
As for automation, that is a measure of efficiency for the aircraft and airline and in no way indicates the potential obstacles a pilot might face during the course of a day or night. I am paid not to fly an automated aircraft from A to B, but to ensure that when and if the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hits the fan, I/we, know how to handle it in a way that may save lives aboard the aircraft and on the ground. If you are really intersted in what a pilot's job is, you might want to do a word search on United Airlines at Sioux City and DHL Airways at Mexico City. In the latter, an entire load of Air France 777 pax were spared by the "automation" of three quick acting crew members, with not so much as even a friggin "thank you" from Air France.
We are an easy target for guys like you. In the days of PanAM a pilots wages and lifestyle were actually better for that day than they are now. The fact is you might want to consider a paradigm shift towards comapring us to a anesthesiologist. I don't charge hardly anything for getting the craft off the ground, you mostly pay me for making sure, not matter what, it gets safely back on the ground.
One other thing. If new aircraft automation is making our jobs so much easier, why is it that airline and corporate jet insurance premiums are going up while at the same time requiring MORE, not less, experience to fly these machines "that technology has made almost fully automated."
Let's be honest and just say that all this crap about being overpaid sounds like a time honored way to just stir the social pot of class envy. I personally think internet reporters who produce nothing more than social commentary disguised as "news" are probably even more overpaid than pilots, and hey, that's just my opinion, probably backed up with a similar volume of research.
One other thing. I want the mechanics on the aircraft I fly to be the most competent professionals we can find, and I think they should be compensated accordingly. They do an awesome job."
Just thought there might be others that wanted to rattle this guys cage a little as well.
