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Another needless loss...

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Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Last Friday, August 8th, two guys that I knew well died while attempting to land at Seamans airport near Scranton, Pa.

Randy, the pilot, was a former seal, just a little older than I am. He shared a Cherokee Six with another friend of mine. Both partners in the plane learned to fly at the same small airport where I first flew with my dad back in 1962. He and his business partner, Bryan, were scheduled to have a business meeting on Friday morning not far from their destination. The report is not yet posted on the NTSB site, but there is an all-too-familiar set of circumstances at work here: marginal weather, poor visual contact, and a pilot who is highly motivated to make the landing "the first time". A mechanic reported after the accident that ground visibility was 1/8 mile at the time of the crash.

Note: Seamans airport has a VOR or GPS-A approach, with an MDA of 491 feet AGL (with local altimeter setting and 13.0 DME) and one mile visibility.

I'm getting steamed about crashes like this and the Connecticut Lear crash more and more as time goes on. It's one thing if your airplane comes apart (almost never) or you catch fire (hardly ever) or your engine quits (sometimes, but nowhere near "often"). It's another thing when you, the pilot fail to follow the rules, good operating practices, or just think that you can "get away with it" just this one time.

It may be difficult for the untrained eye to differentiate between 1/2 mile and 3/4 mile, but I don't think there is much doubt about the average pilot's ability to tell the difference between 1/8 mile and ONE mile. Similarly, there is no reason that I can see to be doing 60 degree banks over an airport at 100 to 200 feet AGL in a Lear 35 in order to land the airplane, short of being on fire.

I'm not an investigator and I don't like to speculate, so I'm trying to limit my comments to what has been reported so far as alleged "fact". If what I have learned about both of these accidents is indeed true, then neither of these crashes had to happen, and we wouldn't have lost four good men.

With 10,000 active pilots registered on this board, there is a very good chance that someone will face the same decisions that these two pilots faced in the past two weeks. Most of us will learn a lifesaving lesson from these two events, and the many other preventable accidents that happen every month in the US.

Will YOU be one of the many pilots who learn something from this, or will you be mentioned on the NTSB website as "the pilot"?

Think about it.
 
Last edited:
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 6373C Make/Model: PA32 Description: PA-32 Cherokee Six, Six, Sarat
Date: 08/08/2003 Time: 1200

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed

LOCATION
City: FACTORYVILLE State: PA Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES 200 YARDS NORTH OF RUNWAY 4/22,
THE TWO PERSONS ON BOARD WERE FATALLY INJURED, SEAMANS FIELD AIRPORT,
FACTORYVILLE, PA

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 2
# Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: 081151Z 00000KT 4SM BE CLR 22/21 A2989 RMK A02 SLP120 70001

OTHER DATA
Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: General Aviation

Departed: POTTSTOWN, PA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: SEAMAN'S FIELD ARPT Flt Plan: IFR Wx Briefing: U
Last Radio Cont: UNK
Last Clearance: UNK

FAA FSDO: ALLENTOWN, PA (EA05) Entry date: 08/11/2003


How about the difference between 1/8 of a mile and 4 sm? Of course I don't know what BE is, looks like a typo. Of course we all know how accurate the asos is.
 
yea, I've been suckered in by AWOS's before too. Seems like you can have a mile vis down the runway, even though the AWOS says it's less than a 1/4 and vise versa.

Sorry to hear about your friend Timebuilder.
 
Timebuilder,
Sorry about the loss of your friend. Your post is something all of us should remember. Get homeitis in bad weather or under low visibilty conditions is more often than not, fatal.
Thanks for the post....
 
Sorry to hear about your friend and I totally agree with you. Everyone please fly safe! The things Timebuilder writes and the idea of never compromising safety always seems like such an obviously simple concept, but yet when those concepts are tested during a real time event they sometimes fail to have been practiced. I truly believe the problem is that at some point when pilots, ether accidentally or intentionally, discover that they can live through something they regarded as dangerous or unacceptable in an airplane (ie-ducking below mins) they then categorize it as "safe" or "safer than they thought" and will possibly consider doing it again. I'm sure a lot of you already know this and probably 90% of this board has a lot more time then me. Please don't misunderstand, but sometimes the more experience you have the more likely it is that you have experimented with "unsafe" practices and gotten away with them. So I guess what I’m trying to communicate is that please don't just agree with me (or any of the obvious safety concepts out there), but rather evaluate your flying habits and change anything that you know deep down inside isn't "safe." We all have something we can change to be safer pilots. I’ll look for something in my flying that could be changed for the better and I hope you guys do to. I don't wish the grief of losing a loved one on anyone. Please be a safety dork and go out of your way to be safe (even if it means compromising efficacy).
 
That really sucks.... sorry to hear about your friends, especially the circumstances surrounding the event. My thoughts are with their friends and family.

Skyking:(
 
Timebuilder, I'm sure Randy was a great pilot. All the more reason for all of us to think carefully about situations like this. Any one of us, given the right circumstances, can be suckered into a tight corner.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend.
 
How about the difference between 1/8 of a mile and 4 sm? Of course I don't know what BE is, looks like a typo. Of course we all know how accurate the asos is.

Yes, I too heard about this "4 sm" during the many reports in the paper and on Scranton TV websites.

All I can think of is that the weather machine was in a different location than where the reporting mechanic was standing when he heard Randy's plane, and that the visibility was a problem on the runway near where he stood. I didn't check any weather record for when he took off from Pottstown, and I wasn't up that early on Friday morning myself to look out the window and have a clue about what conditions might have been over at PTW.

The other night at the funeral home, they had a picture of the plane on display, a beautiful blue and white cherokee six. The family also displayed a great many other mementos, including his navy pictures, his PIAA referee shirt, and dozens of other small items accumulated over a life of service to family and community.

His two daughters, both in their twenties, spoke at the service the next day. I had to admire them both for their undeniable guts, barely keeping composure at several points as they shared the impact that their father had made on their lives, and the lives of many others, including the downed pilot Randy carried for many miles through the Vietnamese jungle on his back after a rocket killed the rest of his seal extraction team and destroyed their helo. That's just the kind of guy he was. Apparently, guts runs in his family.

Be careful, guys. Fifty-one is too young for a family to lose a father. Don't you be next.
 
Not my place

I tried to let this one pass, but I can't.

This is a true tragedy.

I am truly saddened by this.

My deepest condolences to the family of these two.
 

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