Another mandatory ASA letter from Tutt

[COOPERVANE]

August 31, 2006​

Dear ASA Pilots,​

As indicated in a recent communication regarding pilot negotiations, after failing to make progress
through several informal meetings with ALPA, the company approached the mediator and asked for
a joint meeting to assess whether or not the parties could see a path to reaching an agreement.
In an effort to do everything possible to achieve that goal, yesterday we provided ALPA leaders a
new proposal that formalized what we had previously outlined in our informal meetings coupled
with further improvements that had not been discussed.
We believe that this proposal incorporates many of the enhancements that you told us were
important to you, while still allowing our company the ability to grow and compete in the
marketplace. We invite you to review a summary of our proposal by visiting​

www.asacontract.com​

Unfortunately, after receiving ALPA’s response to our proposal earlier today, the mediator did not
find sufficient grounds to re-engage the parties in mediated negotiations. While we are very
disappointed in this outcome, we remain dedicated to doing what we can to address the significant
differences that remain.
Over the coming days and weeks, we will be out in the system answering questions you may have
regarding our most recent attempt to conclude contract negotiations.​

Charlie​

New proposal gives me a 1.6% pay raise WOO HOO!!!​

 

[ASARJMan]

Over the coming days and weeks, we will be out in the system answering questions you may have regarding our most recent attempt to conclude contract negotiations.​

Charlie

Hey ole Charlie boy, don't bother. Your most recent attempt! Give me a friggin' break willya Charlie! The MEC speaks for me!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[jstyle13]

Holy Cow! I thought they were going to have some actual movment on the pay....I guess not. Some of it seemed decent...but still a long way from what I would be willing to vote for. Still no mention of retro. My favorite part was the paragraph about Performance pay only if we vote in a PBS system within 18 months....what a bunch of crap. Oh well.......

 

[WWEfan]

I laughed my ass off at the "Performance Plus" offer in exchange for PBS. When are they going to get it through their heads that we don't want either?

 

[79%N1]

Well, devils advocate.......at least the company made some significant movement. This is really quite a step from where they were. So, now it seems ALPA is the one not moving. What items are we sticking on? Hopefully not the retirement. The pay seems at least better. Maybe not what we 'want', but better. They moved on quite a few items. Unfortunately we are back where we were, which is nowhere because the mediator bagged it again. Can't get this done guys if we aren't talking!

 

[wms]

Forget performance plus and PBS! They're acting like we actually want a bonus based on performance parameters that we have no control over; so much so that we'd take PBS to get it. It was looking promising until I saw that, and the fact that I only get a $1.13 raise. Forget it!

They forgot trip rigs and retro pay. They also forgot to include min pay and rigs into CDOs.

 

[79%N1]

Remember guys, we're not going to get everything we want out of this. Negotiations are give and take, and this time at least mngmnt gave a little. My question, the company is perfectly willing to show their cards. Where is our side's offer. I want to know what we are sticking to, and how far apart we are! The scheduling section looks good, and many of the items management offered look a lot better. Yes, there are some must haves not yet ironed out, but we have to be willing to move a bit and meet them somewhere.

 

[goahead]

Can we request another mediator??? He seems to be a big barrier to a lot of this or is that just in my head.

 

[www.]

Can we request another mediator??? He seems to be a big barrier to a lot of this or is that just in my head.

It's in your head. Les is one of the better ones around.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

So when do we strike?

 

[Airboss]

PBS for Performance Plus...HAH!!!!
Looks like the CR7/9 (up to 76 pax) FO is only $3 more an hour than the CR2 rate.
We still have some negotiating to go!

 

[cbrown1]

So when do we strike?

Yah I think sadly that we will see that soon. We've been parked twice in the past 3 months so I don't see us going back to the table before a strike or a real threat of one.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

They forgot trip rigs and retro pay. They also forgot to include min pay and rigs into CDOs.

Duty rig 2:1 except CDO's. Min pay was 3.75 except CDO's.

Pref bid has it's advantages and disadvantages. It will save the company some bucks. They are moving in the right direction, pref bid looks to be the hang up. I'd roll with it though for the duty rigs and min pay.

I have a hard time believing they are demanding retirement pay though. Why in the hell would anyone want retirement from an airline? A judge can toss it quicker than you can bat an eye. Give me the good 401K.

So far as the pay, how much more do the majors pay for to fly an airplane with 20 extra seats? Bet it's not much either.

 

[legalalien]

Duty rig 2:1 except CDO's. Min pay was 3.75 except CDO's.

Pref bid has it's advantages and disadvantages. It will save the company some bucks. They are moving in the right direction, pref bid looks to be the hang up. I'd roll with it though for the duty rigs and min pay.

I have a hard time believing they are demanding retirement pay though. Why in the hell would anyone want retirement from an airline? A judge can toss it quicker than you can bat an eye. Give me the good 401K.

So far as the pay, how much more do the majors pay for to fly an airplane with 20 extra seats? Bet it's not much either.

The retirement they are asking for is a b Plan - defined contribution not an A plan. think of it like a 401(k) - the money would be in your account so you couldn't lose it. However having said that it will probably go in the end game.

20 more seats isn't much in the large aircracft but it is 40% more for us. I am not saying that we should get 40% more pay but the majors do pay a lot more for aircraft with 40% more seats!

The rigs and min days they have offered would mean practically nothing to your paycheck. They aren't even what Skywest has now! The min day would mean a 4 day would guarantee 14 hours of pay - big deal!

Also the pay increases are what 1.7, 0.8,1.25 and 1.0% over the four years, only for the 50 seat captains. So that would be 0 for four years and then less than 5% over four years. Last I checked inflation is a lot more than that!

Anyway you look at it this is a sh!t deal!

Also the scope fragmentation policy does nothing to protect jobs. It allows them to transfer aircraft to Skywest without pilots or if they transfer over a certain percentage they take the pilots furloughed and staple them to the bottom of the Skywest list (if they are hiring). If everything else was perfect in the proposal that by itself would mean my No vote!

 

[scarlet]

I have to say that is was GREAT to SEE ANYTHING at this POINT !!! I have to say that is was not to bad,, 401k monthly--1 to 2 duty rig (better than airtran) 2 day trip TAFB 12:00 mini would be 6 hours pay....

We do need more in pay like 2.6% yearly--we have not had this in 4 years so they saved alot of money!!!

I have talked to alot of people and they would be happy with their current pay rate but need 2.6% raise and I think people would vote this in....

11 days off

What is the union saying that they purposed??? I am voting everyone out of the union next election just as in the national election....

 

[scarlet]

the scope needs help too, if they transfer airplanes with the pilots with full benefits....

 

[legalalien]

I have to say that is was GREAT to SEE ANYTHING at this POINT !!! I have to say that is was not to bad,, 401k monthly--1 to 2 duty rig (better than airtran) 2 day trip TAFB 12:00 mini would be 6 hours pay....

quote]

A 1 for 2 duty rig means 1 hour of pay for each 2 hours on duty not TAFB. You are confusing ot with a trip rig which is usually about 1 for 3.75 TAFB.

As for great to see anything - don't you think management are hoping enough guys buy into that. They stall for 4 years and then you think that this sh!t is great! Would you have thought that a the start of the process?

 

[asayankee]

I would need to see a trip rig as well. There are way too many 35 hour overnights. I have one coming up this week. 35 hours in MCN!

 

[No Delay]

I have to agree with everyone....

The 2:1 duty rig is a scam. Don't fall for it!!!!!!!!!!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Well, devils advocate.......at least the company made some significant movement. This is really quite a step from where they were. So, now it seems ALPA is the one not moving. What items are we sticking on? Hopefully not the retirement. The pay seems at least better. Maybe not what we 'want', but better. They moved on quite a few items. Unfortunately we are back where we were, which is nowhere because the mediator bagged it again. Can't get this done guys if we aren't talking!

What are u smoking 79%? They didn't move, they are trying to sell us on our current book and you are saying they are moving? Everything has a hook.

SCOPE!!!! Are you kidding me?!?!? That is worthless! Of course SKW wont be hiring when they Fragment us.

The Pay rates are pennies on the dollar raises and still far below current SKW on the 50. It's about a dollar raise for me a year. Pathetic! Compare them to SKW, our sister company. Good enough for them but not for us!!!!

Deadhead, maintaining its current offer of 100%. We already have 100%, apparently they forgot that. And this is dependent on us agreeing to the open issues in the other sections.

IP's at a 75 hr guarantee!!!!!!!!!!!! And an increase of farming out to DGS for ground and Sim instruction!!!! They will get 100% of the instruction if that passes cause they will all quit.

Seperate catagory flying in ATL and dual qual in other bases, but don't know how that will be paid. When and how did the CR2 gain 9 seats in their proposal?

Underblock pay is gone and the rigs do not cover it for CDO's cause they are excluded from them!!!! Yuck Fou!!!!

Per Diem at $1.60 for the life of the contract. Pathetic!



I WILL NOT CAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NOT CAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

["GO AROUND"]

In the P2P call tonight they said that there should be a response to the companies proposal out tonight. It will give the other side of the story.

One other big thing on the performance plus is that ASA is paid based on our base pay and SKW is paid based on their gross pay. Once again, good enough for them but not for us?!?!?!?

Managment was obviously pissed at our lack of jumping up and down over the little or no movement in their proposal. If you guys are happy with the baby steps the company keeps making, the rest of us and the mediator are not. They think we will just get tired and give in like some of you say we should and they are wrong.

Prepare for the next onslaught of company threats and propaganda.

Same song, same dance.

 

[scarlet]

RE READ the SCOPE and it is HORRIBLE I would walk away too......

 

[IUSTACHECKEM]

Normally a Mediator will park a group that it feels to be out of line. If the Company is out of line the mediator usually thretens to release them to cooling off. You figure it out.

Sorry but the industry is not what it use to be.

Welcome to walmart!

 

["GO AROUND"]

If anyone thinks we have support in the district we are in at ASA, they are sorely mistaken.

Remember the judge that ruled against the DAL pilots for not volunteering for green slip open time? It says in their contract that green slips are voluntary and the judge said it was an illegal job action anyway.

 

[geardown]

79% How in the hell do you find any of this acceptable?

This offer screws so many of our pilots for various reasons. We as a GROUP need to take a step back and look at these offers in their entirety as if we were a pilot in any particular situation this company can put us in. Number 20 today could be the bottom of the seniority list in 3 years. 600 could be holding reserve for the next 3 years. 1100 could be a FO indefinitely. I am not an IP but bet your assa that I would rather have one of our well compensated IPs doing PCs than some FS puke who can't fly a cessna by himself.
Pay based on performance would be fine if it was based soley on the pilot's performance because I know I work with some of the best in the business, but ATL is not and never will be an operation to be proud of because of the ATL mentality. I know I grew up here. There is no way in hell that we can ever allow our income to be decided by the ATL operation or the ASA GO, regardless of who is in control.
The contract we have today was negotiated based on management's past attritions. I think it would serve everyone well, especially those who are new to our group, to reflect on that and realize there is nothing indeliberate in this negotiation. This company has a strong tradition of working against pilots and their contract, regardless of the goal. We deserve better than what mgt is currently offering and we should accept nothing less.
This job requires the utmost professionalism and perfection in duty yet we allow ourselves to be treated like factory workers.
For all the new airline pilots please stop and ask yourselves, what will you be worth in 5 years or a decade? You never know what the future holds ( 9/11, War, bankruptcy,etc) you may be exactly where you are right now or worse.
Will you be able to support your family? What are YOU worth?

I will agree that $19.00 an hour is great money straight out of college but try going four years on $30,000 while your counterparts selling wine to gas stations are making $80,000 and plans for their future. The dream quickly fades and the reality that you are under paid and under valued will become very apparent in a very real way and you will have no recourse but to quit this proffesion and start over some where else because you chose to be ambivilant to the situation around you.

 

[goahead]

Do you think it's a coincidence (sp) this letter came out the same day that ASA started offering and Employee Assistance Program............. So when our great leader are in the AP talking about how sad they are, make sure we all ask them about the deadhead, premium, and pay in this latest letter. I mean what a bunch of sh_it. Poor ASA mgt

 

[14RF SUX]

And it sounds like they junked premium time too, from the way I read it. Am I right?

 

[goahead]

yessir

 

[ASARJMan]

And it sounds like they junked premium time too, from the way I read it. Am I right?

Where is the company offer posted?

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[ASADriver]

I get the feeling some ALPA people don't really want a deal unless it has everything they want. Meanwhile it looks like the aircraft will be transferred to Skywest. Way to go ALPA - thanks for taking my money and my job.