Another Logbook Querstion

[Jonahproject]

Catching up on master logbook. Just a couple of quick questions. When logging instrument time what is the general consensus with airline flying. Techinally you are on instruments the entire time. When I'm doing an oceanic crossing at night I'm not necessarily in IMC the entire time, but I certainly don't have a visual horizon most of the time. Is logged instrument time strictly supposed to be time spent in the clouds.
Other question, are major airline interviewers looking for logged legs, trips or days. Any info on logbook shoulds and blunders would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[stupidpilot]

IMC conditions only from what I understand

 

[GuppyWN]

I'll counter that with an anytime you must use the instruments to fly the airplane. High overcast no stars - IMC. It's called instrument meteorological conditions, not cloud time.

Gup

 

[Booker]

Ditto the above: Go with the FAR definition.

 

[dillfer]

How about in a two pilot aircraft. Can PIC log any instrument time when SIC is flying?

 

[RIP]

Um, No

 

[Booker]

Um, No

What's your source for that answer?

 

[SWA GUY]

How about in a two pilot aircraft. Can PIC log any instrument time when SIC is flying?

PIC logs ALL instrument time. SIC logs instrument time only when he/she is flying.

 

[Jim]

Too bad Doc's FAR Forum is no longer around because he had links to the FAA legal opinions on both of these. These opinions said:

- Actual instrument is any time you have to control the aircraft solely by reference to instruments, not being in IMC or operating IFR. Examples given were over the ocean or desert on a moonless dark night with no visible horizon, and above a layer of clouds that do not give a reliable horizon.

- Actual instrument is a condition of flight just like night. A pilot who is "operating" the aircraft is entitled to log actual instrument whether the pilot is the "pilot flying" or the "pilot not flying". It made no reference to being PIC or SIC. It defined "operating" as being required by the aircraft's type certificate, FARs or Op Specs.

These FAA legal opinions contradicted the FAA FAQ site that was run by a FAA guy named John Lynch. Lynch was a FAA paper pusher in the Regulatory Support Division. The unfortunate thing is that other FAA guys and even Gliem jumped on Lynch's stuff since he worked for the RSD and it was easily accessible on the internet. However the legal opinions, not Lynch's, are the ones that matter. After the inconsistencies between Lynch and the legal opinions became known, the FAA took down Lynch's FAQ.

So legally:
- you don not have to be either IMC or IFR to log actual instrument
- both the PIC and SIC log actual instrument regardless of who is actually controlling the aircraft.

 

[dillfer]

PIC logs ALL instrument time. SIC logs instrument time only when he/she is flying.

That's what I thought.

A pilot who is "operating" the aircraft is entitled to log actual instrument whether the pilot is the "pilot flying" or the "pilot not flying". It made no reference to being PIC or SIC. It defined "operating" as being required by the aircraft's type certificate, FARs or Op Specs.

But that really kinda makes sense.

 

[SWA GUY]

Jim,

I disagree. But, you log it the way you think is right, and I'll log it the way I think is right.

Typical FEDs; ask three a question and get three different answers. ON MOST EVERYTHING!

 

[Jim]

Jim,

I disagree. But, you log it the way you think is right, and I'll log it the way I think is right.

Typical FEDs; ask three a question and get three different answers. ON MOST EVERYTHING!

If I ever get around to actually doing my logbook.....

 

[AdlerDriver]

Catching up on master logbook. Just a couple of quick questions. When logging instrument time what is the general consensus with airline flying. Techinally you are on instruments the entire time. When I'm doing an oceanic crossing at night I'm not necessarily in IMC the entire time, but I certainly don't have a visual horizon most of the time. Is logged instrument time strictly supposed to be time spent in the clouds.
Other question, are major airline interviewers looking for logged legs, trips or days. Any info on logbook shoulds and blunders would be helpful. Thanks.

Does any major even ask for "instrument" time on their app?

 

[luckytohaveajob]

How about the logging of Relief Pilot flying?

The FO logs SIC. The relief pilot flying in an FO capacity logs it as relief time but can he also log it as SIC? Three or four pilots are required depending on the length of the flight. Since they are required what do they log?