another expectation / suggestion thread

[350DRIVER]

I worked there. The program works and you should look at it this way. As Mar noted, European airlines have 300-hour FOs. Maybe a difference between them and Mesa are that these pilots are hand-picked and are already airline employees whom the company trains at its expense. In any event, MAPD students are imbued from the beginning in Mesa procedures. Even though they know Mesa, they still have to go through Mesa ground school and sim, and must take a 121 ride (when I was there, they took at 135 ride and received a 135 letter as undergrads as part of their turbine lab).

I could not agree more. Once the "program" has been completed by the student he then must prove himself at the interview, during idoc/systems, sim, oral, check ride, etc, .. They do not differentiate between whether or not you are here because you came through the MAPD program or if you were hired off of the street. My hat is off to Mr. Rich Castle who seems like he has been instrumental and deeply involved in making this as successful as it has been from day 1. I have had some friends who went through this program and they said they would not have done it any other way... If I could have done it differently I sure would have since I could have skipped the whole 135 gig and would have been just as profiecent. It does depend on the program and this one is extremely standardized and you are put to the test every day. If you do not meet a deadline then you are washed out and sent home with no questions asked.

Many are against Mesa but as Bobby said you can't beg and then choose. One cannot always have the cake and eat it too.



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[WrightAvia]

Originally posted by 350DRIVER
..."total time" really means nothing.

You are right, TOTAL TIME don't mean jack schitt. PIC TIME means everything.

I have "BRIDGE" program for you. I'd love to see one of those 300 hour total time pilots come do my "single engine" simple airplane 135 job. It would be a "BRIDGE" to the after life program, for all aboard and that's why the feds wont let em do it.

 

[hydroflyer]

Original Topic

I'm going to jump back to the original questions here for a bit. One thing that was not said in the original post was whether Foobar is willing to relocate from his current city. Although you may not be able to find a regional that will pay 30K+ in your second year, depending on where you live now, you might be able to stretch your money if you live in the right place. Do a search on the internet for "Cost of living index" and see if you can find a website with a calculator to determine cost of living comparison's between cities. If you are currently living in a high cost of living area now, such as the northeast, Chicago, southern California, then finding a regional that could base you in the South or some midwest cities where living is generally cheaper and could stretch your money to where you need it. You most likely won't be living where you want to, but if you can stand it for a little while, you may be able to position yourself for your ideal living and job situation.

 

[Caveman]

Timebuilder posted:

"I can't name a regional that will pay you 30k the second year, but i'm no expert. Sometimes you can find this info on the web, but at first blush I'd say 22 to 24k the second year. Just a guess."

In the interest of acuracy CMR pays well over $30K the second year. I don't have the contract in front of me but 2nd year FO pay is around $34-35 @ hour. Including per diem I made around $40K in my second year. SkyWest, ASA, Air Whiskey and some others also pay over $30 @ hour for a 2nd year RJ FO. I believe that CMR pays the best right now but the other carriers I mentioned are within a couple of bucks @ hour of our rates.

Unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that I can't envision a change in the economy/industry significant enough for us to hire a 1500/300 pilot anytime next year unless they are a DCI Academy grad. You'll have to have 3000/1000 and previous 121 time to get an interview with Comair anytime soon. You'll need 4000+/2000+ to realistically compete. Of course the type of flying and quality of experience will help. Translation: Prior military will get looked at with less time than some other folks. Don't kill the messenger. Good luck.

 

[Timebuilder]

It's refreshing to hear that at least a few of the regionals are paying 30+ in the second year.

I guess the trick is to get hired first, eh? 4000/2000 to compete? Yikes.

 

[Foobar]

It’s all about personal minimums. I think if I can meet my criteria then I'll fly for a living. Looking at the pay for mesa, they may not do it. I can't control the pay or the working conditions but I can not take a job that falls below my criteria. I'm sure someone else will be happy to! When I refused to fly for free for the operator at our FBO they just found someone who would. I understand that’s the system, and it works from my FBO all the way up the chain. And again, this is not flame bait, the system is what it is. I've set those minimums and it looks like air whisky, comair or ASA will meet them. Are there any other carriers that do? I don’t think Skywest pays during training do they? Are those really the ONLY three regionals that meet those criteria?

And again, I recognize that my expectations may not work out at all (In fact I’ll be a bit surprised if I do find a great job!) and I recognize that there are folks who “want it more” but for me, I know “wanting to fly more than anything” will wear thin after a year or two of lousy schedules and pay.

 

[bobbysamd]

Desire

It’s all about personal minimums. I think if I can meet my criteria then I'll fly for a living . . . .
And again, I recognize that my expectations may not work out at all (In fact I’ll be a bit surprised if I do find a great job!) and I recognize that there are folks who “want it more” but for me, I know “wanting to fly more than anything” will wear thin after a year or two of lousy schedules and pay.

I guess it does depend on how badly you want it. I did, but not badly enough to engage in you-know-what. That's where I drew the line.

I think your expectations exceed reality, and that you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Just the same, good luck with whatever works out for you.

 

[350DRIVER]

I think your expectations exceed reality, and that you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Just the same, good luck with whatever works out for you.

I tend to agree to this post by bobby.. The regionals that you have listed are going to be very difficult for you to get on with present day with your flight times. I wish you luck and may all you want and desire come true but "money" should not be a major reason to make you want to pursue flying as a career.. Nothing will ever be handed to one on a silver platter, one must really want it bad enough to make due with the pay for the first few years. Best of luck on whatever you so choose to pursue. Comair is very competitive right now and supposebly they are only looking at resumes with 3000 hours plus if you are coming from off of the streets.

Best of luck

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[Foobar]

Well obviously I need more flight time, which I will have, and next year hiring may be better or worse, who knows...

Its not a question of giving up, I know I can get a job with a regional, its a question of what I'm willing to tolerate.

So what do Comair or ASA pay during training? I found the info on air whisky's site but not for Comair or ASA.