another Ch. 11 EOS

[Soverytired]

49 seats at about $1,500 a piece instead of 158 at $500.

$73,500 ticket sales for 49 full seats versus Legacy $79,000 ticket sales for 158 full seats.

Without the Legacy infrastructure to pay not to mention paying for all those RJs losing money.

Exactly. It's not secret to NYLON route observers that all the profit is made on the backs of the first class and business class tickets. The chum in back is just extra.

 

[Lear70]

Not to mention, with the huge decrease in passenger count (and the result in the decrease of weight), that you can bulk out the lower cargo pits with freight...

We all know how lucrative freight can be. UPS and FedEx aren't exactly bleeding red, even with the spike in fuel prices.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Not to mention, with the huge decrease in passenger count (and the result in the decrease of weight), that you can bulk out the lower cargo pits with freight...

We all know how lucrative freight can be. UPS and FedEx aren't exactly bleeding red, even with the spike in fuel prices.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]On our flights to China (CAN in particular) business class is always full and coach loads are very low, but our ZFW is always at max. I was flying with a VP the other day and he said "A coach ticket to China actually cost us money"[/FONT]

 

[Full of LUV]

49 seats at about $1,500 a piece instead of 158 at $500.

$73,500 ticket sales for 49 full seats versus Legacy $79,000 ticket sales for 158 full seats.

Without the Legacy infrastructure to pay not to mention paying for all those RJs losing money.

The business plan was sound, if you could keep the airplanes over 80% full, maintenance costs weren't a problem, and gas didn't spike from $2.50 to $4.00 a gallon in 18 months.

Unfortunately, their marketing wasn't reaching their target audience (business travelers are a difficult nut to crack), maintenance costs were eating their lunch, and the fuel prices just put the nails in the coffin.

I would say that the business travelers spending the money also like the ability to use their FF miles for a vacation later in the year, so they put their 1500 into a biz class seat on a major and collect the miles and other perks.

 

[Lear70]

I would say that the business travelers spending the money also like the ability to use their FF miles for a vacation later in the year, so they put their 1500 into a biz class seat on a major and collect the miles and other perks.

You can't get a business class, round-trip seat to Europe for $1,500.

Cheapest 30+ day advance fare starts at around $2,500 and goes up. Same-day walk-up Y-fare round-trip is closer to $5,000. On EOS, it was usually close to $1,500.

EOS was fairly popular, loads were usually pretty full, or at least they were when my buddy was flying.

 

[Andy]

OK, I can see that there are a lot of pilots who are unfamiliar with how easy it is to upgrade as a Frequent Flyer.
I'm a 1K at United. I flew IAD-FRA/MUC ~8 round trips last year - 16 flights. I flew on govt Y fares; ~$1K round trip.
I flew in coach once or twice out of 16 trips.
I used 6 of my SWUs (systemwide upgrades) for upgrades (actually 8; I used 2 from this year - I took them early and used them in Nov). 1Ks get 6 SWUs each year for free.
The other 6 or so flights, I used my miles to upgrade. It cost me 15K miles to upgrade with miles. However, as a 1K, I earn so many miles that I haven't been able to use them all. I just got my mother-in-law a first class round trip ticket with my miles.

Most business class passengers are on coach tickets and have upgraded.
Most first class passengers are on biz class tickets and have upgraded.
The airlines do this in order to keep their best customers. I flew ~125K miles last year on United, so the revenue that they've gotten from me makes the program worth it.

Would I rather fly on a major which has an extensive route network, accumulate FF miles, have a lot of connection options at the arrival airport, and upgrade to biz/first on a regular basis or fly on an all-biz class airline where the fare's higher than I could get on a major (due to upgrades) and can only connect to bare bones carriers at the arrival airport?
The business traveler wants to fly to Heathrow. Gatwick's acceptable. Stansted's a hike.
And there's no way that EOS was able to take connecting traffic; the carriers operating out of Stansted are ultra low budget carriers. Business class to cattle car? I don't think so. http://www.airwise.com/airports/europe/STN/STNarl.html

 

[vtwo]

The real issue was that their Financing they had set up to carry them over the hump fell through as the last minute at the closing table. The Money guys walked and the airline chose to shut down. they did not have enought operating cash on had determined by the feds to keep operating. the business plan was formed in 2005 when they started. How things have changed since then.
so they just needed this last bit of cash to make it into profitablity. with the current market conditions the way they are now their plan was sound. it just need more $ to get the operations big enough of be able to absorb some of the market swings.


and now it really don't matter what I think. or you for that matter. they are done. now it's time for the legacy airlines to raise prices.