Another ASA F/O bites the dust

[Secret Squirrel]

I don't know what's more sad, this guys lack of judgement, or the fact that he had to supplement pathetic his income with this scheme?

Sad part is, this could just as easily have been the story at any airline today with the BS 1st year pay they all get away with "paying"

Have you looked at your contract compared to others flying similar equipment. Looks like you are bringing down the industry with a substandard contract. Regional contracts have taken huge strides over the last 10 years at most companies. Looks like yours has gone backwards.

 

[HA25]

Have you looked at your contract compared to others flying similar equipment. Looks like you are bringing down the industry with a substandard contract. Regional contracts have taken huge strides over the last 10 years at most companies. Looks like yours has gone backwards.

While I am in no way happy with my contract, and I didn't vote for it, nor would I have had I been here when it was signed let's not get too excited with the hyperbole..

This "BK" contract still has:

I've got $45/hr starting pay, and $63 2nd year pay, which is more than many RJ CA's..

I've got Business Class travel to and from most of my trips

I've got home base (no commuting, and live where I want)

I've got a 12 hour call out on the road while on reserve

I've got a 3 hour call out on home reseve

I've got an average of 15 days off per month (at home in a row), with 11 guaranteed or I get paid over time at time x 1.5.

I've got NO JUNIOR manning... I don't have to do squat if I don't want to, they can just send me home.

I've got an average of 1 month vacation per year (2 weeks off which replace my 2 weeks on and give me from 4 to 6 weeks off per year!).

Frankly, I think it's not good enough, and I'm looking for better opportunities, but for now it's not as bad as my days at ASA, not even close!

As for similar equipment... the ACMI world is filled with companies paying less and some (World, Atlas) more.. It's generally a bottom feed world and flying a heavy here isn't the same as Fedex or UPS because our companies don't make ANYWHERE near the money those do.. Look at our captain's pay compared to UAL or DAL however and we're not looking as bad.. for ACMI that is. As the tide raises, so will ours, and while we'll never pay Fedex money, we'll always pay more than an RJ or it will be time for me to check out of this career for good.

You were saying?

 

[Speedtape]

Speedtape why are you still here?

And yes Expressjet is hiring, Pinnacle is hiring, Eagel still hiring...

waitn' on a class date pinhead....

 

[Speedtape]

Have you looked at your contract compared to others flying similar equipment. Looks like you are bringing down the industry with a substandard contract. Regional contracts have taken huge strides over the last 10 years at most companies. Looks like yours has gone backwards.

Like in soccer, sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I was saying it is easier to point at other people and find problems than to look at yourself. Nothing about your posts is constructive. You are blowing your horn about how good your contract is compared to an RJ pilot? OOOOO big man. Why don't you go compare your contract to FEX or UPS. At least that is the same equipment. Do you feel better making fun of regional pilots? Sounds like you used a regional as a stepping stone also so it seems pretty hypocritical.

 

[HA25]

Like in soccer, sometimes you have to go backwards to go forward.

Well, the reality is we've just gone thru a BK two years ago, and this contract was negotiated under duress of liquidation where as the RJ's have been making hand over fist, while their pilots allowed their management's to continue to rape them.. If Gemini was making hand over fist, trust me so would it's pilots.

 

[HA25]

I was saying it is easier to point at other people and find problems than to look at yourself. Nothing about your posts is constructive. You are blowing your horn about how good your contract is compared to an RJ pilot? OOOOO big man. Why don't you go compare your contract to FEX or UPS. At least that is the same equipment. Do you feel better making fun of regional pilots? Sounds like you used a regional as a stepping stone also so it seems pretty hypocritical.

Stepping stones are ok, and I may see Gem as a stepping stone too.. but that doesn't mean that while I AT MY COMPANY I don't try to make it better. Most Regional pilots I've known, and read post from on this board seem quite happy with the state of affairs where they're paid like crap because they're building time.. I'm not.

You can have your cake and eat it too... you can build time, and get paid for it too. I don't judge a new guy breaking into the business for taking an RJ job.. I did it too (E120). You've got me confused with someone else.

As for Fedex compared to us... it's not even a comparison.. they make more money on one MD11 than we make with all 4.. it's apples to oranges.

Compare us to World and Centurion.. that's our arena.

 

[HA25]

Pilots today have to get away from this idea of "equipment pay".. the mediators have long since moved away from this.. the reality is that what your company earns determines what YOU earn.

Understand this, and you'll understand where I come from with my non "constructive" posts..

 

[Secret Squirrel]

How can you make fun of taking a job at a regional when you did it? Many people are trying to improve their lives. Either at the place they work with better contracts or by moving on. This FO that stole a headset it a thief. His values would probably justify stealing something from his job at UPS also. Regional pay is what it is. He would have known what it was when he applied. You are making it sound like the system forced him to steal and I am saying that it is his choice to get himself into financial trouble and/or his unethical choice to steal.

 

[HA25]

How can you make fun of taking a job at a regional when you did it? Many people are trying to improve their lives. Either at the place they work with better contracts or by moving on. This FO that stole a headset it a thief. His values would probably justify stealing something from his job at UPS also. Regional pay is what it is. He would have known what it was when he applied. You are making it sound like the system forced him to steal and I am saying that it is his choice to get himself into financial trouble and/or his unethical choice to steal.

I wasn't making any fun... I was find it it sad. How can that be mistaken for fun?

I genuinely found it sad.. and I recall 10 years ago when I was making $14,000/yr after having just paid them $9500 because at my job interview Pat Yeager told me I'd be at Delta in 2 years! I was young, and naive and I have since learned a few things. I wasn't judging him, or ANY one else at the regional.. you are the one that sound like you've got the chip on your shoulder.

I for one think the entire industry (less UPS, Fedex, and WN) is in shambles, RJ's up to American 777's.. We're all in this mess together.

YOU are the one who brought up how great you RJ guys have been doing while my company was going down hill.. like our pilots had anything to do with that! That was mis-management by our execs, not our pilots! They've done a damn good job bringing some good QOL to our job (a job that is not easy), and have done their best under a bad situation to improve our lot... not enough in my view, but nevertheless.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

So you are disappointed (sad) at your own career path?

 

[HA25]

So you are disappointed (sad) at your own career path?

VERY!

So you see... I'm not judging anyone, as I've had it no better. I'm empathizing and trying to MOTIVATE people to get involved in making it better for themselves were they are NOW. Not living for the future.. I've got prospects outside of GEM, but they are by no means guaranteed, so I have to make the most of GEM while I'm here.

If that makes me a hypocrite then so be it.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

But what would the alternative be? The only other would be the military and I was unable to get in because of an ankle injury. I instructed, flew night freight, and now work at a regional. That is the career progression. By not accepting first year pay at a regional you are basically saying I choose to not be an a airline pilot.

 

[HA25]

But what would the alternative be? The only other would be the military and I was unable to get in because of an ankle injury. I instructed, flew night freight, and now work at a regional. That is the career progression. By not accepting first year pay at a regional you are basically saying I choose to not be an a airline pilot.

I too tried the Mil route and was not accepted due to a minor (in the words of the recruiter, it wouldn't have mattered if we weren't drawing down) medical condition.

I am not faulting the guy breaking in.. I'm faulting the guy who's been in for a few years and comes on this board going on about how unions are useless, and ALPA is the enemy! This is what I am all on about. I can't believe the number of people that come on here and spent their entire time touting the merits of non-unionized airlines and the "free market"

If the "Free Market" had it's way in our profession, Gemini would be paying $19/hr for the MD-11 and you'd be paying to fly an RJ..

Educate your fellow pilots. The only way out of this mess is unity and not just with in the airline, but with in the profession.

I understand that my company isn't a shining example, but then would my comments have any more merit if I were at UPS? or for that matter a 1st year FO at ASA again?

No. They stand on their own.

 

[ASARJMan]

I have noticed one missing on several occasions and thought the exact same thing, but didn't call. I will start calling MX from now on. I sure don't want to get tagged for that!!

I would suggest not just calling mtc, but to write it up also. This will afford you better protection for not getting tagged.