And so it begins...

[pilotyip]

You might want to do a little research about how much money is being made before you spout off your anti-union, defeatist garbage.

Hey Merry Christmas to you too, long time no see. So when the luggage handlers put up a picked line will the pilots and FA's cross it?

BTW: I thought you were getting out of aviation

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Hey Merry Christmas to you too, long time no see. So when the luggage handlers put up a picked line will the pilots and FA's cross it?

Swapa wouldn't know what to do. The AFA on the other hand is a different story, but whether the rank and file would listen or not is a different story.

 

[redflyer65]

There's no AFA at Southwest. The TWU also represents the Flight Attendants if that's what your getting at, so there would probably be some in-house unity between two factions of the same union (both TWU on the ramp and In-Flight).

 

[Nindiri]

Bleh... Baggage handlers here at SWA are some of the best paid in the industry. If they think unskilled labor deserves still more, maybe they should look elsewhere. I'm sure some of the factories or mills might be hiring.

Or get an education and a professional job.

 

[PCL_128]

Hey Merry Christmas to you too, long time no see. So when the luggage handlers put up a picked line will the pilots and FA's cross it?

You won't see any strike. The NMB would never release the TWU, at least not without knowing that a PEB is in the bag.

BTW: I thought you were getting out of aviation

I've got a little time left. And I'll still post here to annoy you and wavey.

 

[waveflyer]

That particular post doesn't annoy me at all PCL

I do love how some here think they can be anti-union for unskilled labor and yet pro union for us.
That's rich.

The bar just keeps moving for conservatives. Now it's not ok to bust your tail all day doing productive work that needs to be done- one must be an educated professional to progress financially in their eyes.
And you wonder why so many are choosing to sit on the couch. Maybe because it pays the same poverty wage.

Go on then. I'll be here advocating that good workers do deserve a living wage.
The irony is then you'll blame me and other liberal's for the welfare state when the culprit is republican disdain for honest pay for an honest day's work.

 

[PCL_128]

Amen!

 

[Nindiri]

Socialist nonsense. You deserve what you can negotiate, and if you are too lazy to learn a skill or profession, then you don't leave yourself with very much negotiating power. Decisions have consequences.

 

[SWA Bubba]

That particular post doesn't annoy me at all PCL

I do love how some here think they can be anti-union for unskilled labor and yet pro union for us.
That's rich.

You keep saying stuff like that, Wave, acting like there's absolutely no middle ground, just to frame conservatives to fit the argument that you want to make. I know you won't admit it, but it IS possible to be pro-Union (for all work groups), like me; without being in the extreme "unions-can-do-no-wrong," like PCL. However, being pro-Union doesn't mean that all unions are always right.

The bar just keeps moving for conservatives. Now it's not ok to bust your tail all day doing productive work that needs to be done- one must be an educated professional to progress financially in their eyes.
And you wonder why so many are choosing to sit on the couch. Maybe because it pays the same poverty wage.

Now who's exaggerating?

Anyone who works should get paid. They should get paid what their group can negotiate, based on the market value of their labor. Some skills are valued more highly than others; hence those people can command higher wages.

Our rampers actually make pretty good money for what is essentially unskilled manual labor. My little brother used to be a ramper for us, and his first full year (he started in a summer) he made just over $50k. Not too bad for unskilled labor, and nowhere near the "poverty wages" you claim Nindiri wants to force on that work group.

Do they deserve a raise? Sure. Like every other workgroup here, including the pilots, they deserve actual COLA raises, and probably some QOL tweaks in their work rules and/or other bennies to reward them for their part in the company's recent successes.

Go on then. I'll be here advocating that good workers do deserve a living wage.
The irony is then you'll blame me and other liberal's for the welfare state when the culprit is republican disdain for honest pay for an honest day's work.

Actually, conservatives have no problem at all with "honest pay for an honest day's work." The key, however, is the word "honest." "Honest pay" is determined by, and is the result of market forces (supply and demand). For example, forcing employers to pay more than that honest pay for low-to-unskilled labor ($15/hr minimum wage for teenage burger-flippers) kinda' puts a hole in your "honest pay" theory now, doesn't it?

And yes, we'll still blame liberals for the welfare state. For pushing and expanding it, and even incentivizing it.

Bubba

 

[Nindiri]

Well said, SWA Bubba.

 

[waveflyer]

Socialist nonsense. You deserve what you can negotiate, and if you are too lazy to learn a skill or profession, then you don't leave yourself with very much negotiating power. Decisions have consequences.

Yep- hard work is "socialism" to today's conservative-
Guaranteed those rampers are less physically lazy than the vast majority of most pilots- and good rampers absolutely earn their wage-
Please remember the same argument with different words are used against pilots-

You sound like you ought to get to a Cutting Edge and get to know some of your ramp crew.

Funny how I heard some fat captain 3 years ago call a vegas Ramper a thug- when the month before I did C.E with him- turns out that thug is an army reserve staff sergeant who did two tours in the desert.
Many of those guys will surprise you and what I've found is that many times we see them being lazy, it's bc the slackers called in sick and mgmt ran the good workers ragged.
JMO

 

[densoo]

.....,,,,......

 

[Nindiri]

Well then, Wave, be a good comrade and take a pay cut so the baggage handlers can get a big raise. After all, they work harder than you and "deserve" the money as much as you do.

Or do you only feel generous with other people's money?

 

[PCL_128]

With company financials where they are, I don't think anyone needs to take a pay cut in order for the rampers to get a reasonable raise.

 

[waveflyer]

Well then, Wave, be a good comrade and take a pay cut so the baggage handlers can get a big raise. After all, they work harder than you and "deserve" the money as much as you do.

Or do you only feel generous with other people's money?

Why do you believe that baggage handlers pay comes out of pilot's slice of the pie?
You can have all the smart ass comments you want because you clearly didn't observe anything post 9/11-
Maybe randy Babbitt could use another writer for his letters against the pilot's. You should apply.
It was literally the same arguments you give against the rampers

 

[waveflyer]

Bubba, check out nindiri's post. He says "well said" to you, but I actually agree with you and he disagrees concerning our rampers.
Ideology is different, but thats not exactly news now is it?
Yes, burger flippers, should make a livable wage. If companies want to go into business, they should have to pay a minimum wage. Absolutely.
This is yet another example of conservative hypocrisy.
You don't actually believe in hard work- and have no clue about macro-economics.
Good thing your ideology never gets implemented

Bleh... Baggage handlers here at SWA are some of the best paid in the industry. If they think unskilled labor deserves still more, maybe they should look elsewhere. I'm sure some of the factories or mills might be hiring.

Or get an education and a professional job.

 

[Nindiri]

Why do you believe that baggage handlers pay comes out of pilot's slice of the pie?
You can have all the smart ass comments you want because you clearly didn't observe anything post 9/11-
Maybe randy Babbitt could use another writer for his letters against the pilot's. You should apply.
It was literally the same arguments you give against the rampers

Nonsense. I never suggested that baggage handlers don't work hard or have the right to negotiate for even higher pay. What I DID suggest was that SWA baggage handlers are some of the highest paid in the industry, for a job that requires all of a few days training. I realize that in your socialist fantasy world, everybody gets CEO pay and sings Kumbaya, but in the real world you have to learn a skill or a profession if you want to make 6 figures.

 

[Nindiri]

You don't actually believe in hard work...

You are correct. That is why I became a pilot.

 

[waveflyer]

You suggested they look elsewhere. Not negotiate for COLA.
And none of that has anything to do with basic work definitions that we would take a stand on too. The company seems to be taking air tran and international as an opportunity to have less full time employees on the ramp and a lot more contract employees.

Ever dealt with contract employees on a large scale??
It's stepping over dollars to save dimes, I promise.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You suggested they look elsewhere. Not negotiate for COLA.
And none of that has anything to do with basic work definitions that we would take a stand on too. The company seems to be taking air tran and international as an opportunity to have less full time employees on the ramp and a lot more contract employees.

Ever dealt with contract employees on a large scale??
It's stepping over dollars to save dimes, I promise.

While there very well may be less-obvious downsides to contract employees (your "stepping over dollars..." comment), there's a side to the rampers' contract that you seem to be missing. The company is not "taking AirTran and international as an opportunity" for more contact employees out of spite or anything, like the rampers seem to be suggesting. The rampers' union actually agreed to this several years ago.

Several contracts ago, their union agreed that in the future, for any city with less than so many daily flights (I think 6 or 8; I don't remember exactly), the company could use contract employees below the wing. Current (at that time) SWA cities were exempt, and would keep using company employees, regardless of the number of daily flights. In return, the union got slightly larger raises. In effect, the union "sold" some future work, in return for cash up front for current employees. It certainly seemed a little short-sighted, especially when you consider the importance of scope. Nevertheless, it's a little disingenuous for the rampers to bitch about it now, when the company wants to collect what it's been paying for for the last several years. Or at least for them to imply that the company's pulling "dirty tricks" by wanting to use contractors.

None of this has anything to do with payrates though, and I believe that their union is just as justified as our own in asking for real COLA raises, plus some other small bennies in work rules/whatever to reward the employees for their parts in the company's recent large successes. But if they also want back something that they previously sold away (scope), then they better be prepared to buy it back. It's the same lesson that several pilots unions learned the hard way about their predecessors' actions.

Bubba