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AMR selling Eagle

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siucavflight said:
Wrong Cat, sorry looking at the current APA contract in front of me, includes wholly owned only, and the contract allowed Eagle to be the only carrier for AA. So the loophole is get rid of Eagle, now they are not wholly owned, but they are allowed to be the only carrier for AA under the current APA contract. Scope gone.
Wish it was not the case but it is.
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Then why was Shuttle America and GoJets created, sorry but you are still mistaken, and if they try that there will be alot of Silver airplanes parked in the near future. All this does is focus AA pilots attention on Scope again and I guarentee you the AA pilots will not give on this issue.
 
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catIIIc said:
Sorry but you are still mistaken, and if they try that there will be alot of Silver airplanes parked in the near future.
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Exactly my point, this is not good. I will not stick around Eagle and allow myself to whipsaw that APA, I will not do it. I hope it does not happen. I dont want to be a career regional pilot. I am out of here as soon as the right offer comes.
 
I can fly higher than an eagle rj and you are the wind beneath my wings. thank me thank me thank god for gerard the wind beneath your wings. that song always makes me tear up.
 
Devil Dawg said:
I can fly higher than an eagle rj and you are the wind beneath my wings. thank me thank me thank god for gerard the wind beneath your wings. that song always makes me tear up.
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Wow, you spent a lot of time filling out the A/C flown section.
 
From another website with a interesting idea, discuss.

I think AMR has insider knowledge via the lobbyists in DC that premium slots at premium times will be too expensive to throw an RJ at the problem (current philosophy to maintain presence in markets not able to support a mainline jet year round). Divesting Eagle is shedding the albatross and a possible attack on Scope. If they had it there way, they would let Eagle do all the Domestic Flying and turn AAL in to an all transcon/international airline with a great many codeshare partners. Only we (labor) can stop them.
 
Cat, very interesting. And good points. I assume that you are an AA pilot. I hope that you do keep all of your flying on the AA side. I am sick of doing mainline stuff. Like ORD-JFK.
 
siucavflight said:
Cat, very interesting. And good points. I assume that you are an AA pilot. I hope that you do keep all of your flying on the AA side. I am sick of doing mainline stuff. Like ORD-JFK.
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Nope furloughed from TWA/AA but now at CAL(who also has strong Scope Language) but just hate to see Scope eroded at any airline. CH11's at DAL,NW and UAL have set Scope back decades and it needs to stop somewhere.
 
AA can't just codeshare with anyone for domestic service, wholly owned or not. They would have to negotiate with APA to do that. For example, the horizon and alaska codeshare. Fortunately the scope is pretty clear on this.
 
spacecadet1 said:
AA can't just codeshare with anyone for domestic service, wholly owned or not. They would have to negotiate with APA to do that. For example, the horizon and alaska codeshare. Fortunately the scope is pretty clear on this.
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What I worry about is that the way that the APA contract is worded it says that AE will be their only regional. Then it goes on to discuss scope as applying to wholly owned only. If Eagle is separate from AA then it would get them around the scope. As I said in another thread I will absolutely not allow myself to be used to whipsaw anyone, EVER! Good bye AE.
 
EVER?

Nothing personal, but AMR has been 'whipsaw-ing' AA with AE for years now.....ask a flowback the next time you fly with them.....again nothing personal. Its just a matter of perspective...

I used to fly there ( AE) too....so I guess I am just as guilty. However, what else were we suppose to do? They gave that flying up right?
 
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siucav--First, may I say you have consistently posted the best avatars on the board. Kudos! ;)

Second, if the scope only covered Eagle/wholly-owned regionals, why isn't TSA or CHQ flying anything larger than 50 seaters?

BTW, I've always wondered why that flying didn't go to Eagle anyway.

There is a section in the GB on non-wholly-owned flying but I'm too lazy to look it up now. Besides, if AMR wants to try to bust scope, they will do it without the permission of any of us. Good luck to all. TC

P.S.--You heard it here first (well, maybe not...): I'm predicting AMR will push APA to strike in order to go Ch. 11 and 1113 the unions. This is a first step.
 
Pushing for bankruptcy? Let me give you a few reasons whey they DON'T want that.

1) A large part of management compensation in recent years has been in the form of bonuses based on the value of AMR stock. What kind of bonuses do you think they will get with a worthless stock?
2) Another way they squeeze money from AMR is through generous stock options. Again, what will be the value of those options with a worthless stock? A big zero.
3) What about those outside the company that own the stock? How mad will they be when they lose virtually everything in a bankruptcy? Do you think many managers will keep their jobs after allowing the airline to go under?
I could go on an on, but it is clearly NOT in the best interest of management to force the airline into bankruptcy as it will cost them in the wallet and it may very well cost them their jobs.
I can't believe we are talking about bankruptcy yet again at AMR.
 
WyoHerkdriver said:
1) A large part of management compensation in recent years has been in the form of bonuses based on the value of AMR stock. What kind of bonuses do you think they will get with a worthless stock?
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Thats easy. They'll just get a brand new "thanks for getting us out of bankruptcy with your amazing leadership" bonus. You actually think bankruptcy will stop their money?? NWA's ceo got roughly 26 million in bonus money when they got out of bankruptcy.


...clearly NOT in the best interest of management to force the airline into bankruptcy as it will cost them in the wallet and it may very well cost them their jobs.
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Again, NW's management is alive and kicking with their fat wallets and their job's intact.
 
I hate to break it to the bankruptcy conspiracy theorists, but the bankruptcy laws have been changed drastically in recent years. Thanks to the outright abuse of the system by the likes of UAL, NWA, DAL and others, it now takes a much higher standard for a corporation to declare bankruptcy. The aforementioned airlines used the bankruptcy laws and courts as a tool to gut contracts (including union contracts), but the new laws are designed to prevent that from happening again. Besides, it will be very tough for AMR to approach the bankruptcy threashold given solid profits and a great deal of assets.
 
Herk--I know the laws have changed. That's why it will take a strike to drive AMR to that point. I guarantee Arpey goes to sleep every night wondering why the heck they didn't file in '03. (In fact, I ran into a lawyer who worked on TWA's and UAL's Ch. 11's and she basically said it was irresponsible that AMR didn't file when they had the chance.)

They can still make their 1113 case based on competitor's contracts. PBS and Defined Contribution Plan are industry standard these days. We're already at the top of scale for the Legacies--SWA and the cargo guys are higher but they'll make the case that they aren't the competition. They can make the case that we have the lowest productivity of any pilot group out there. It'll be like shooting fish in a barrel.

As for the shareholders, all they do is beat the crap out of management over "unlocking shareholder value" (hedge funds are the new corporate raiders...) and the employees beat them up over bonuses.

At least that's what I'd do if I were king--or at least on the PUP mailing list. ;) TC
 
WyoHerkdriver said:
I hate to break it to the bankruptcy conspiracy theorists, but the bankruptcy laws have been changed drastically in recent years. Thanks to the outright abuse of the system by the likes of UAL, NWA, DAL and others, it now takes a much higher standard for a corporation to declare bankruptcy. The aforementioned airlines used the bankruptcy laws and courts as a tool to gut contracts (including union contracts), but the new laws are designed to prevent that from happening again. Besides, it will be very tough for AMR to approach the bankruptcy threashold given solid profits and a great deal of assets.
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You sound just like an accountant. Hi Andrew
 
IAHERJ said:
Details are comming out slowly but CNBC just announced that AMR is going to sell Eagle by the end of the year.
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To who? Who is going to buy it? Just because it's for sale doesn't mean someone is going to buy it.
 

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