AMR canning pilot's who abuse sick leave

[lowecur]

That's interesting. I'm sure these are not job actions, but it sure gets the attention of anyone thinking of abusing their sick leave. Makes you wonder what will happen when CHAOS takes effect for UAIR and UAL's FA's. I see UAIR counter workers have voted for a strike. UAIR's largest creditors told the judge tonight they want the workers contracts abrogated, along with the pensions. They include GE, Airbus, and a few other biggies. Interesting times are just ahead.

Union says American checking workers who call in sick

FORT WORTH, Texas Financially troubled American Airlines is monitoring the amount of sick leave that employees take.

Union officials say some pilots of Fort Worth-based American -- have been terminated, in action that is being contested.

The company declined to disclose the use of sick leave.

Spokeswoman Sonja Whitemon says American is watching the issue closely, including checking whether employees who call in sick try to use their travel benefits.

Whitemon told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that American, like other carriers, has to take every source of waste and inefficiency out of the system.

A contract between the airline and the Allied Pilots Association means American pilots get five hours of sick leave for every month on the job -- up to one-thousand hours.

Union leaders recently rejected a company plan to cut sick leave abuse.

 

[AA717driver]

WELLLLL, YA DIDN'T GET ME!!!!

Laughing all the way to the bank with my $40k in furlough pay! TC

 

[TWA Dude]

lowecur, since you're not in the industry lemme explain sumthin. Unlike office workers who can request to leave work early or get an occasional day off for important occasions pilots bid for their schedules and unless they can trade they're stuck with it. That means that on occasion a pilot may call in sick in order to attend to obligations. That's technically sick leave abuse, though a legitimate case can often be made for emotional sickness. You wouldn't want an upset pilot flying your plane when s/he coudn't get off for his brother's wedding, would you? I don't believe the AA pilots are any more guilty of it than any other carrier. AMR is just more authoritarian in how they deal with it, ie, threats and intimidation. The pilots at the legacy carriers who haven't been laid off have all experienced a diminished quality of life recently, and that means fewer days off and less schedule flexibility. Thus it shouldn't surprise anybody that there's more sick calls.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

WOW ... to the public it sure sounds like American Airlines is encouraging their pilots to fly while sick . Does management also threaten your job if you call FATIGUED?

From a SAFETY standpoint, I'm sure I'm not the only one alarmed at the potential ramifications of a policy that threatens pilots with job loss when they don't feel fit to fly. I sure hope we don't see a spike in incidents/accidents as a result of this latest foolish pilot-pushing.

 

[lowecur]

lowecur, since you're not in the industry lemme explain sumthin. Unlike office workers who can request to leave work early or get an occasional day off for important occasions pilots bid for their schedules and unless they can trade they're stuck with it. That means that on occasion a pilot may call in sick in order to attend to obligations. That's technically sick leave abuse, though a legitimate case can often be made for emotional sickness. You wouldn't want an upset pilot flying your plane when s/he coudn't get off for his brother's wedding, would you? I don't believe the AA pilots are any more guilty of it than any other carrier. AMR is just more authoritarian in how they deal with it, ie, threats and intimidation. The pilots at the legacy carriers who haven't been laid off have all experienced a diminished quality of life recently, and that means fewer days off and less schedule flexibility. Thus it shouldn't surprise anybody that there's more sick calls.

Thanks for the headsup. I was aware pilots bid on their schedules based on seniority, but I wasn't aware that companies are as hard-a$$ed as AMR. I mean checking to see if any free travel has been used? I guess most employees just have to pay to fly in a situation like that, and use a non-codeshare airline.

My other point is the up-coming threatened strikes. It doesn't look like a strike will shut down the airlines, as the process outlined in this article actually might have the President going to Congress. Interesting stuff.

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_277375.html

 

[Vik]

If you have saved up sick days, you should be able to use them however you like.

What a crock.

Anyway, those laid off pilots can sue AA and come up with a whole list of valid reasons they called in sick (unless AA planted a hidden cam on them).

 

[100LL... Again!]

Arrrrrghhh!!!


STOP USING the possessive to indicate the plural!!!!!

Correct usage examples:

There are three pilots on reserve. NO Apostrophe!

The pilot's schedule sucked. Apostrophe.

Do you put on your sock's and shoe's every morning?
Do you pay two dollar's a gallon for gas? Stop with the apostrophes.

(See? Not stop with the apostrophe's)

 

[igneousy2]

Most of these terminations will be overturned with no problem. It is very difficult to get these sick leave abuse cases to stick.

"I was not fit to fly"

Why did you travel non-rev?

I'm a commuter I had to get home.

My doctor is in XXX city.

I was not fit to fly, but I was fit to ride.

Then there is always the F word.

If you work for AMR or any airline for that matter, just remember...

When you call crew scheduling you are "NOT FIT TO FLY." Keep it simple, do not give any details, they are not your doctor, they have no right to know anything about your health condition.

When AMR goes to your termination hearing they will bring out your SABRE history. EVERYTHING in SABRE is tracked, they will bring it out, it will say you logged into the terminal at gate 37 at RDU, checked the loads on such and such flights at this time, the computer showed you the loads sucked...10 minutes later you called crew scheduling and this is what you said...and they'll play the tape complete with terminal background noise. Crew Sched at AA/Eagle has the ability to not only record the call, but to take your recording and e-mail it to anyone in the compay with the click of a mouse. I was representing a pilot out of BOS and the VP flight ops not only heard about the incident but had already heard the recording only 10 minutes after the incident.

AMR saves all your trade/drop requests until the day passes. If you REALLY need a day off and don't get it on the bid...DO NOT REQUEST A DROP, VAC, TRADE, ANYTHING!!! Just call in sick, DECS will generate a flag if you request a drop and then later bang in sick.

Just my .02

Later

 

[michael707767]

something that needs to be mentioned to the non flyers of the world, pilots will get sick more than a person who works in an office. If I have a head cold and can't clear my ears, I am not going to fly, but I could go sit in an office. Add to that there are lots of medications that prevent you from flying. I missed some work once after knee surgery, but my brother when he had similar surgery went into work every day. Pilots should call in sick if they are not fit to fly.

Having said that, I think we all know pilots who in fact abuse sick leave. I have no problem with putting the pressure on those pilots.

 

[Midnight Mike]

Hey gents, I think you are reading to much into this, sounds like American is trying to make sure if you call in sick, you are actually sick. If you are in bed with a fever & a sore throat, American is not after you, but, if you call in sick & try to jumpseat to Florida to see Grandma, sounds like you got some explaining to do.

 

[satpak77]

If you have saved up sick days, you should be able to use them however you like.

hate to burst your airline career fantasy bubble, but in "real life", at least at my place, sick leave is for sickness,illness,family member being sick, etc

a quick perusal of my employer's leave handbook (and most other jobs) indicates that "leave for whatever you like" falls under a category called vacation leave

danm if every time I took vacation leave, I indeed was allowed to do whatever I liked!

I know that revelation is earth shattering

wait wait, I am not getting my way, (fists balled up with big lip sticking out), airline management is not doing what I want (now running to room and not letting my mommy see me), life is not fair, etc etc, I am gonna stage a sick out to "show them"

 

[Whirlwind]

Hey gents, I think you are reading to much into this, sounds like American is trying to make sure if you call in sick, you are actually sick. If you are in bed with a fever & a sore throat, American is not after you, but, if you call in sick & try to jumpseat to Florida to see Grandma, sounds like you got some explaining to do.

Maybe it is cloudy and yucky in Chicago and sunny Flordia will improve your spirits?

Don't knock it actually, if you're tired and not feeling sharp enough to fly, a day or two in the sun can often fix that pretty quickly...

 

[Ty Webb]

hate to burst your airline career fantasy bubble, but in "real life", at least at my place, sick leave is for sickness,illness,family member being sick, etc

Hey, Satpak- do me a favor, and don't come work at my carrier. The last thing any of us need is some self-righteous pilot trying to determine what is legitimate use of sick time.

I once flew with a Capt who took great pride in telling me, "I haven't called out sick in the 6 years I have been here". To which I replied, "Really? Well, how many of the FO's you infected had to call out sick after flying with you?'.

Life happens, and if you have kids, as most of us do, there are going to be times that you need to have off that were unexpected, or that you couldn't get off by bidding, and when that happens, I sure don't need some sanctimonius clown telling me that I am "abusing sick time" and expecting me to explain myself, and see if my reasons meet his personal criteria.

When I worked at Fedex as a ramper, we got 4 paid "personal days" per year, even as a part-timer, for crying out loud. Give them 48 hours notice, and you take the day off, no questions asked. Remember, rampers at Fedex are off weekends, and aren;t gone for half the month.

Sick time is a negotiated benefit. Why don't we negotiate "personal days", you ask? Well, if a company starts trying to decide what is legitimate use and what is not, then personal days will have to be on the table, but I suspect that management already factors these in to your sick days.

 

[satpak77]

favor already done

Life happens, and if you have kids, as most of us do, there are going to be times that you need to have off that were unexpected, or that you couldn't get off by bidding, and when that happens, I sure don't need some sanctimonius clown telling me that I am "abusing sick time" and expecting me to explain myself, and see if my reasons meet his personal criteria

no, whenever you want a day off, he11, just call in sick man, make someone else pick up your slack.

need Christmas off? Superbowl sunday? just need to run to Home Depot and finish the deck today? Call in sick

I mean, who the he11 is someone else to tell you what the rules are?

nice work ethic

Hey, Satpak- do me a favor, and don't come work at my carrier. The last thing any of us need is some self-righteous pilot trying to determine what is legitimate use of sick time.

you fly like you work?

Don't come work at my carrier

later

 

[yaks]

Just to clarify:

-A sick child does not count as being sick and is not justification for using sick leave at AA (or my current employer for that matter). A stupid rule in my opinion but it is considered abuse.

That said, anyone who calls in sick to get a holiday off is a dong.

 

[Ty Webb]

no, whenever you want a day off, he11, just call in sick man, make someone else pick up your slack.

That might be the case at your little mom 'n pop operation, Chief, but at an airline either someone bids to pick up that trip in "open time", or it is assigned to a reserve pilot . . . . who was already scheduled to be available, and most reserve pilots would rather fly and make extra money on their work days than hang around the crash pad.

need Christmas off? Superbowl sunday? just need to run to Home Depot and finish the deck today? Call in sick

Thanks for helping me prove my point- there is always some sanctimonius turd that assumes that people who call in sick are doing the above things.

Don't come work at my carrier

Uh, I don;t think I will be leaving my slot here to come fly with you, Chief, so you just have fun second-guessing your fellow pilots and banking that sick time.

 

[sandman2122]

Satpak77 should try to fly month after month of night hub turns out of Memphis and see if he doesn't get sick......

Glad we can use sick days to call in FATIGUED - our contract spells it out.....

Contract
Section 14.A. Sick Leave - General

1. The purpose of sick leave is to protect a pilot from loss of pay, to the extent of his sick leave accrual, when he is unable to perform his assigned duties because of injury, physical or mental illness, or fatigue.

 

[skykid]

Any good airline pilot knows you don't waste sick days on being sick. You fly when you are sick. Sick days are for hunting and fishing.

 

[Hoot R. Hunter]

Let's see...
125 pilots scheduled for the street at the beginning of Jan (after the holiday push, of course), another 60 at the end of Jan, and no realistic recall for years to come. If I were a betting man, I'd be betting that FO reserve availability on at least the S80 is gonna get a little thin near the holidays.

 

[PHX767]

But if you are a good little boy / girl and do not use any sick days in the last few months before your furlough, Mother AMR will give you six more months of worthless non rev priveleges at the same priority as the parents of "real" employees.