AMF down in BIL

[Lear Wanna Be]

N54rp

 

[Linetech]

Last word I had was they had been cleared for the VOR approach into BTM, at 130. Also heard the training capt was not feeling well prior to their dep. The Capt has been doing that run for quite some time, he was fimilar with it.

 

[RedEye1]

this is complete speculation, but they may have been attempting a non precision approach with a course change at the navaid, and missed the turn.

I think you nailed it,
http://www.fltplan8.com/AppCharts/GIFCHARTS/00588VGB_0001.gif
if they stayed on that initial course instead of changing to the final approach course, and than did the missed approach as charted they would climb directly into a 7500' peake in the same area where the wreckage was found, near Feely, about 8 miles southwest of BTM.

If you look at a different non precision chart for the same airport,
http://www.fltplan8.com/AppCharts/GIFCHARTS/00588VDGA_0001.gif
you can see the mountains southwest of the airport that are not shown on the chart for the approach they flew, the FAA picked a hell of a place to put the airport diagram on that chart. Like to see the Jepp charts for these approaches, does AMF use Jepps or NOAA?

 

[Vegaspilot99]

AMF uses Jepps only, except for VFR charts.

 

[rubicon789]

Rest in Peace... Be careful out ther guy's/gal's.

 

[CorpLearDriver]

N54rp

I have a lot of time in this machine. My condolences to the families of the crewmembers involved.

 

[jparks]

Lets not speculate on pilot error quite yet. Lets be fair to the families, remeber the pilots of the great men they were, and let the professionals do the investigating.

 

[Joblio]

For those who are interested:
"The family prefers memorials to the Cotton Children Memorial Benefit, c/o Wells Fargo Bank, 350 N. Last Chance Gulch, Helena, MT 59601. Local arrangements have been entrusted to Hagler-Anderson Funeral Home."

From http://www.helenair.com/articles/2006/03/26/obits/cotton032606.txt

Be safe everyone.

 

[Hootie9750]

Lets not speculate on pilot error quite yet. Lets be fair to the families, remeber the pilots of the great men they were, and let the professionals do the investigating.

I second those feelings.

 

[jparks]

Hootie,
Thanks man.

 

[troll565]

I think you nailed it,
http://www.fltplan8.com/AppCharts/GIFCHARTS/00588VGB_0001.gif
if they stayed on that initial course instead of changing to the final approach course, and than did the missed approach as charted they would climb directly into a 7500' peake in the same area where the wreckage was found, near Feely, about 8 miles southwest of BTM.

If you look at a different non precision chart for the same airport,
http://www.fltplan8.com/AppCharts/GIFCHARTS/00588VDGA_0001.gif
you can see the mountains southwest of the airport that are not shown on the chart for the approach they flew, the FAA picked a hell of a place to put the airport diagram on that chart. Like to see the Jepp charts for these approaches, does AMF use Jepps or NOAA?

Way to go, blame the fcucking pilots when they haven't even been buried yet. Why is every fcucking crash the pilots fault? Get a life.

 

[jparks]

troll565,
i love you man, that is great. Everyone and their fricking ego has to blame the pilots before an investigation even starts. It pisses me off. The pilots were great guys. The best check airman i have ever had.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Grow up jparks and troll565

So.....what? Should we not try to find out what happened? There is a very real chance that by reviewing the situation in the safety of our own homes we can learn from what happened. Even if we are wrong, and the reason for the crash isn't as guessed above at least we can remind our selves to be a little more deligent with our flying. As for letting the proffessionals do it, the NTSB can take a year or more to publish findings. We need to know now. Flights are still being conducted into and out of that airport and if our procedures are flawed then we need to make a change right now and waiting for the NTSB is not an option.

The two of you need to learn how to seperate the pilot from the person and deal with the cold hard truth. The truth is, pilots are to blame for most accidents. It is very rare that an aircraft has a system or combination of systems that fail so catastrophically that the aircraft can't be flown safely. Investigating, analyzing and discussing the cause of an accident is very important, and the implication that the pilot made a mistake does not mean that person is being denigrated in any way. Their deaths, while tragic, can help all of us to become better at our trade. To chalk this up as an accident and not look for a valid explination would be more of disrespectful of their lives.

 

[flx757]

ksu_aviatior,

"Guessing" from the safety of your own home about what "might" have happened in no way whatsoever equates to "investigating, analyzing and discussing the cause of an accident". And there is absolutely no possible way that "reviewing the situation" from the safety of your own home can you learn what happened. No way at all. Explain to me just HOW you are looking for a valid explanation? HOW are you trying to find out what happened? HOW can you possibly "know now" exactly what happened? You can't. And if you can, you should call the Investigator-In-Charge. Let him know "what happened" and what exactly was the probable cause. Save the Board a ton of field work, lab work, investigative resources, time, money and paperwork.

You are simply showing your ignorance of the process and doing no one any good. Once we have the "cold hard truth", then we can "deal with it". The fact that you make stab-in-the-dark guess is about as far from the "cold hard facts" as it gets.

Whether you like it or not, "waiting for the NTSB" is the ONLY option.

 

[threegreen]

I think it's good to wonder what happened - you may not be correct when the final investigation comes out; but in the mean time it may be a good reminder of what to (or not to) do!