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Ameristar
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justmeinmsp
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- Apr 11, 2003
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- 154
flying_gringo
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- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 78
if Ameristar is like it was before - upgrade depends on when your ready.
don't believe the hype. Aviation is full of whiners. I worked there for a few years, did the upgrade. If you sign the contracts - plan on doing the time. If you don't have the moxy to stand by your commitment- go find a lesser paying job.
I liked the flying - and loved the folks I worked with. Many will tell you the planes were shoddy. I disagree. Old yes - poorly maintained - no. I logged more hours, flew more miles and made far better money then expected. Sure - maintenance was motivated to get planes out of the hanger - but its spineless pilots who accecpt them and launch with broken stuff. On more then one occasion I downed planes with cargo on board intending to leave a base. Had I continued with the broken plane - I would be to blame. and I was never questioned by any member of management when this happened. and yes - as an F/O you can do this as well. right seat, left seat - broke is broke. even as an F/O I refused to do a few trips the capt said he was willing to take. I stood up and identified my decision. Again - never a reprimand from management - an early upgrade. They just want folks with good judgement.
Dispatch - charter sales actually- will force you to make decisions. Maintenance will do the same. If you don't have the courage to make the calls regarding your skills, equipment, weather, crew, fatigue level, etc... then go fly for a 121 gig where all your decisions are made for you, and the unions will cover you when you fail to think.
135 hangs you out. It forces you to think, to work, and to stand up for yourself. There's no union, and your often pitted against folks that have a financial interest in seeing you fly. I had no problem telling them no. Some find that situation too stressful. choose your cup of tea. no job is perfect.
bad things happen to good folks everywhere. but I still feel strongly that Ameristar is a good company, and one I'd consider going back to if all else failed.
one last myth to bust. they're not going bankrupt, and I doubt Tom would 12 year lears if he wasn't planning on RVSM compliance.
its rough and tumble - hard work and good pay... I equated it to a frat with airplanes... I have no regrets and think for the right people its a great opportunity. approach it like the marine corp - its not summer camp but you do get to do some cool stuff.
and some nights - I wish I was back in a 24 with a three pound box of screws for freight launching coast to coast rather then a coasting out in a Challenger full of nuts.
feel free to contact me if you have further questions.
fg
don't believe the hype. Aviation is full of whiners. I worked there for a few years, did the upgrade. If you sign the contracts - plan on doing the time. If you don't have the moxy to stand by your commitment- go find a lesser paying job.
I liked the flying - and loved the folks I worked with. Many will tell you the planes were shoddy. I disagree. Old yes - poorly maintained - no. I logged more hours, flew more miles and made far better money then expected. Sure - maintenance was motivated to get planes out of the hanger - but its spineless pilots who accecpt them and launch with broken stuff. On more then one occasion I downed planes with cargo on board intending to leave a base. Had I continued with the broken plane - I would be to blame. and I was never questioned by any member of management when this happened. and yes - as an F/O you can do this as well. right seat, left seat - broke is broke. even as an F/O I refused to do a few trips the capt said he was willing to take. I stood up and identified my decision. Again - never a reprimand from management - an early upgrade. They just want folks with good judgement.
Dispatch - charter sales actually- will force you to make decisions. Maintenance will do the same. If you don't have the courage to make the calls regarding your skills, equipment, weather, crew, fatigue level, etc... then go fly for a 121 gig where all your decisions are made for you, and the unions will cover you when you fail to think.
135 hangs you out. It forces you to think, to work, and to stand up for yourself. There's no union, and your often pitted against folks that have a financial interest in seeing you fly. I had no problem telling them no. Some find that situation too stressful. choose your cup of tea. no job is perfect.
bad things happen to good folks everywhere. but I still feel strongly that Ameristar is a good company, and one I'd consider going back to if all else failed.
one last myth to bust. they're not going bankrupt, and I doubt Tom would 12 year lears if he wasn't planning on RVSM compliance.
its rough and tumble - hard work and good pay... I equated it to a frat with airplanes... I have no regrets and think for the right people its a great opportunity. approach it like the marine corp - its not summer camp but you do get to do some cool stuff.
and some nights - I wish I was back in a 24 with a three pound box of screws for freight launching coast to coast rather then a coasting out in a Challenger full of nuts.
feel free to contact me if you have further questions.
fg
flying_gringo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 78
I know I'm a treat to fly with. all doctors are.
and I stand by what I say. I flew for a part 121 carrier (both as sic and pic) and eventually in the training department doing line checks- our carrier operated with domestic, supplemental and flag certificates. We had licensed dispatchers with a certificate of their own they were interested in protecting, runway analysis for every runway and condition, company personnel at every station. Ops agents supervised loading of cargo and passengers and prepared weight and balance, flight attendants dealt with the pax once on board, releases came from trained agents and were kept on file if anyone screwed up. Hazmat had its own special agents that were trained in dealing with it and were experts on the subject, and maintenance was at every stop. Even routes were prestored in the FMS - you don't even flight plan. Part 121 flying in my opinion was dumbed down to the lowest common denominator - heck whats a part 121 read back - only a squawk code! everything else is already there. It was repetitive and dull. The same destinations, the same hotels, crew vans, trip pairs, flight attendants... The same departure to the same airways following the same traffic from other airlines - all the frequencies memorized down to the same approach behind another similar airplane. Shower, rinse, repeat. I left to find a challenge. I felt I was no longer piloting. I sure I was flying - but that's only one aspect of piloting.
Part 135 can be a crew or single pilot to destinations you've never been, approaches you've never flown, no company personnel meeting you to assist, no runway analysis, no ops agents holding your hand, no flight plan from a dispatcher nada. You preflighted, dealt with maintenance, did your own flight planning and ran your own performance. The decision to launch into weather was yours, as was you choice on routes or even taking the trip. If you've got passengers or cargo - the destination logistics often fall on your shoulders - from ground transportation, catering and limos to driving the forklift - it can all be in your lap. And if you were in the cargo business (this is an ameristar thread) often times you were picking up or dropping off Haz Mat cargo in places where trucks were afraid to drive.
(this is going to piss off some) I wonder if we should advocate a separate license for those who want to fly 121 all their life. You really could cut out so much of the decision making taught even to a private pilot. Don't believe me? ask any CFI about the average airline guy transitioning back into small planes (if they even bother going to a CFI). Their safety record isn't too stellar. I think the hand holding dulls their skills in decision making areas not exercised.
and to rant on - Airline pilots egos are stoked to ridiculous sizes. (the old joke about the naked guy on the lawn - little d!ck, big watch and just stole my newspaper - must be an airline pilot). So I have no sympathy when I hear about another pilot whining about being "blindsided" by age 60 retirement. insufficient financial planning, too many ex wives, its a joke. take an objective look at our inbred world of aviation and you'll see its a pretty bent place. Yes, there are some normal folks here - and some great ones too who go on to stunning retirements. but the whole crew? - its all a little off kilter.
and just for flamebait - I think age 60 is a good thing. 121 guys are used to being told what to do, so I'm not sure they'd have the decision making ability on when to leave the dance otherwise. you don't want to be the old guy at the club...
hornets nest you say? I thought it was a piñata…
fg
and I stand by what I say. I flew for a part 121 carrier (both as sic and pic) and eventually in the training department doing line checks- our carrier operated with domestic, supplemental and flag certificates. We had licensed dispatchers with a certificate of their own they were interested in protecting, runway analysis for every runway and condition, company personnel at every station. Ops agents supervised loading of cargo and passengers and prepared weight and balance, flight attendants dealt with the pax once on board, releases came from trained agents and were kept on file if anyone screwed up. Hazmat had its own special agents that were trained in dealing with it and were experts on the subject, and maintenance was at every stop. Even routes were prestored in the FMS - you don't even flight plan. Part 121 flying in my opinion was dumbed down to the lowest common denominator - heck whats a part 121 read back - only a squawk code! everything else is already there. It was repetitive and dull. The same destinations, the same hotels, crew vans, trip pairs, flight attendants... The same departure to the same airways following the same traffic from other airlines - all the frequencies memorized down to the same approach behind another similar airplane. Shower, rinse, repeat. I left to find a challenge. I felt I was no longer piloting. I sure I was flying - but that's only one aspect of piloting.
Part 135 can be a crew or single pilot to destinations you've never been, approaches you've never flown, no company personnel meeting you to assist, no runway analysis, no ops agents holding your hand, no flight plan from a dispatcher nada. You preflighted, dealt with maintenance, did your own flight planning and ran your own performance. The decision to launch into weather was yours, as was you choice on routes or even taking the trip. If you've got passengers or cargo - the destination logistics often fall on your shoulders - from ground transportation, catering and limos to driving the forklift - it can all be in your lap. And if you were in the cargo business (this is an ameristar thread) often times you were picking up or dropping off Haz Mat cargo in places where trucks were afraid to drive.
(this is going to piss off some) I wonder if we should advocate a separate license for those who want to fly 121 all their life. You really could cut out so much of the decision making taught even to a private pilot. Don't believe me? ask any CFI about the average airline guy transitioning back into small planes (if they even bother going to a CFI). Their safety record isn't too stellar. I think the hand holding dulls their skills in decision making areas not exercised.
and to rant on - Airline pilots egos are stoked to ridiculous sizes. (the old joke about the naked guy on the lawn - little d!ck, big watch and just stole my newspaper - must be an airline pilot). So I have no sympathy when I hear about another pilot whining about being "blindsided" by age 60 retirement. insufficient financial planning, too many ex wives, its a joke. take an objective look at our inbred world of aviation and you'll see its a pretty bent place. Yes, there are some normal folks here - and some great ones too who go on to stunning retirements. but the whole crew? - its all a little off kilter.
and just for flamebait - I think age 60 is a good thing. 121 guys are used to being told what to do, so I'm not sure they'd have the decision making ability on when to leave the dance otherwise. you don't want to be the old guy at the club...
hornets nest you say? I thought it was a piñata…
fg
flying_gringo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 78
and I almost forgot my favorite topic. Senority based upgrades.
Get hired on at most airlines and while in indoc they can tell you your anticipated date of upgrade. Regardless of performance, skills, decision making, or common sense - they can tell you when your magically good enough to play the role of "Captain"!
I think this system should be incorporated everywhere. While in basic training new recruits should be given dates of upgrade... and if they stick around long enough - everyone of them can be the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff! yippie!
same with politics - goto city council - they should be able to discern when you get to be President! yea!
volunteer sweeping floors at a hospital? give it some time - you'll be head of neurosurgery soon son - its all a question of senority!
...or maybe that's not such a good idea? perhaps you can only upgrade like that if the job doesn't involve that much decision making afterall.
lets all stew on this one, shall we?
...naah - lets just count the days until we're all Captains! yeaaaaaaa!!!
now kids who wants ice cream?!?
fg
Get hired on at most airlines and while in indoc they can tell you your anticipated date of upgrade. Regardless of performance, skills, decision making, or common sense - they can tell you when your magically good enough to play the role of "Captain"!
I think this system should be incorporated everywhere. While in basic training new recruits should be given dates of upgrade... and if they stick around long enough - everyone of them can be the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff! yippie!
same with politics - goto city council - they should be able to discern when you get to be President! yea!
volunteer sweeping floors at a hospital? give it some time - you'll be head of neurosurgery soon son - its all a question of senority!
...or maybe that's not such a good idea? perhaps you can only upgrade like that if the job doesn't involve that much decision making afterall.
lets all stew on this one, shall we?
...naah - lets just count the days until we're all Captains! yeaaaaaaa!!!
now kids who wants ice cream?!?
fg
Diesel
TEB Hilton resident
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- Nov 25, 2001
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- 4,394
NightFlight
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flying_gringo
Well-known member
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- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
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don't get your panties in a wad... the doctor thing was a joke to some friends.
I don't dislike pilots - and I don't dislike 121. I just got bored with it - so I'm off to new things. I just strongly feel that too many discredit the work done by the pilots on the 135 end. They're very real pilots working really hard. Aviations a tough gig - too small a margin for the capital requirements in my opinion, and too many pilots selling themselves too cheap, and an unholy willingness to subsidize wealthy owners and airlines with pay for training. everyone from commuters like gulfstream to southwest. its disheartening.
135fr8r - as far as the profile thing goes - I've got more time now - I've yet to figure this new format out to change it. and to answer the other comment - no my first job was flying checks, and I had just under 2000 hrs when I got it, over 1000 dual given... so I feel I earned that first night piston check hauling gig. With ameristar, I got hired during a boom - everyone capable was upgrading in 30 minutes. - right now the airline industry, not just ameristar, is in a bust... little hint - its a tad cyclical.
inline - I flew scheduled 121. primarily passenger. don't misunderstand - 121's fine. Mom and pop America need it to get from point to point cheaply and safely. I just got bored. but isn't the point of 121 to standardize? so I doubt other carriers are that much different. Different paint same regs. I'm not going to stand in your way - my cluelessness is telling me to stay out of the airline business. I hope you enjoy shrinking salaries and layoffs.
jobear - we agree I don't like operators where the CP's shining stars get all the cush gigs either- (the corporate side of the house is full of 'em) - but I also feel the seniority system isn't great. If you haven't already, you soon will fly with folks that have no place in the cockpit. Why are these folks allowed to continue in a position of trust? I dislike unions that coddle them through and bring drunks back online.
nightflight - d@mn. got me. I do jerk off... I didn't know someone was watching. I don't know what to say... but I'm the one who likes to hear myself talk? I posted an opinion - thought and comments. you posted drivel. isn't posting drivel something that someone who likes to hear themselves talk would do?
diesel - I know the upgrade's tough, and your right - its up to the pilot. I just wish there was a better method of screening those who've made it through. Some folks do well on tests - and can't perform in real life... and my hats off to those who decide they don't want it - perhaps they're some of the better decision makers out there. but how often have you in your career as an f/o been told - watch out flying with that guy. Why does that happen? I met several folk who scared me when I learned they're in the left seat of airliners. guys you wouldn't want to drive with. and when have you heard of captains stepping down to f/o's when they no longer feel up to it? - its happened, yes- but too seldom. and I don't feel medicals screen. I've seen AME's with lines out their doors for a joke of an exam.
so I'm getting out of the way and letting one of you take my place... do well, go far, fly safe... big airplanes and left seats for everyone.
we don't have to agree to drink beer. I'll do it anyway.
fg
I don't dislike pilots - and I don't dislike 121. I just got bored with it - so I'm off to new things. I just strongly feel that too many discredit the work done by the pilots on the 135 end. They're very real pilots working really hard. Aviations a tough gig - too small a margin for the capital requirements in my opinion, and too many pilots selling themselves too cheap, and an unholy willingness to subsidize wealthy owners and airlines with pay for training. everyone from commuters like gulfstream to southwest. its disheartening.
135fr8r - as far as the profile thing goes - I've got more time now - I've yet to figure this new format out to change it. and to answer the other comment - no my first job was flying checks, and I had just under 2000 hrs when I got it, over 1000 dual given... so I feel I earned that first night piston check hauling gig. With ameristar, I got hired during a boom - everyone capable was upgrading in 30 minutes. - right now the airline industry, not just ameristar, is in a bust... little hint - its a tad cyclical.
inline - I flew scheduled 121. primarily passenger. don't misunderstand - 121's fine. Mom and pop America need it to get from point to point cheaply and safely. I just got bored. but isn't the point of 121 to standardize? so I doubt other carriers are that much different. Different paint same regs. I'm not going to stand in your way - my cluelessness is telling me to stay out of the airline business. I hope you enjoy shrinking salaries and layoffs.
jobear - we agree I don't like operators where the CP's shining stars get all the cush gigs either- (the corporate side of the house is full of 'em) - but I also feel the seniority system isn't great. If you haven't already, you soon will fly with folks that have no place in the cockpit. Why are these folks allowed to continue in a position of trust? I dislike unions that coddle them through and bring drunks back online.
nightflight - d@mn. got me. I do jerk off... I didn't know someone was watching. I don't know what to say... but I'm the one who likes to hear myself talk? I posted an opinion - thought and comments. you posted drivel. isn't posting drivel something that someone who likes to hear themselves talk would do?
diesel - I know the upgrade's tough, and your right - its up to the pilot. I just wish there was a better method of screening those who've made it through. Some folks do well on tests - and can't perform in real life... and my hats off to those who decide they don't want it - perhaps they're some of the better decision makers out there. but how often have you in your career as an f/o been told - watch out flying with that guy. Why does that happen? I met several folk who scared me when I learned they're in the left seat of airliners. guys you wouldn't want to drive with. and when have you heard of captains stepping down to f/o's when they no longer feel up to it? - its happened, yes- but too seldom. and I don't feel medicals screen. I've seen AME's with lines out their doors for a joke of an exam.
so I'm getting out of the way and letting one of you take my place... do well, go far, fly safe... big airplanes and left seats for everyone.
we don't have to agree to drink beer. I'll do it anyway.
fg
Last edited:
NightFlight
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- Joined
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- Posts
- 45
flying_gringo
Well-known member
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- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 78
thank you Nightflight... you provide me with a prime example of the folks that have no place in a cockpit.
simmer down and relax dude... I hope your not this easily set off in flight... or your ill placed anger and ego will lead your way into the hillside one night.
let us hope your alone.
fg
simmer down and relax dude... I hope your not this easily set off in flight... or your ill placed anger and ego will lead your way into the hillside one night.
let us hope your alone.
fg
Gringo,
I think we have all heard enough of what you have to say, and I agree with the other user who stated that "you speak in order to hear yourself talk". My goodness, you sound like a guy we used to have at "Ameriscare" back in the day.
In all of your 121 gripes about lazy pilots, I'm assuming you advised dispatch to never file your flight plans, and/or give you the weather/notam info?
Also, if it was such a good experience with great pay, why aren't you still there? You found something better didn't you? Just like the rest of us. I did my time there, was never written up by dispatch, never had any problems whatsoever, and I feel I have the right to complain about the company after seeing what a first class operation is all about. Not to mention having a life again, versus the 10 day on the road schedule. The 135 life is for some people, but for others it's not. For those who don't have a care for it, leave them be. Our lives are our own business, not yours.
Oh yea, I agree with the captain upgrade based on merrit, skill, and etc...
I hate flying with guys who scare the hell out of everyone. Oh yea..........flew with a bunch of those at AJI.
I think we have all heard enough of what you have to say, and I agree with the other user who stated that "you speak in order to hear yourself talk". My goodness, you sound like a guy we used to have at "Ameriscare" back in the day.
In all of your 121 gripes about lazy pilots, I'm assuming you advised dispatch to never file your flight plans, and/or give you the weather/notam info?
Also, if it was such a good experience with great pay, why aren't you still there? You found something better didn't you? Just like the rest of us. I did my time there, was never written up by dispatch, never had any problems whatsoever, and I feel I have the right to complain about the company after seeing what a first class operation is all about. Not to mention having a life again, versus the 10 day on the road schedule. The 135 life is for some people, but for others it's not. For those who don't have a care for it, leave them be. Our lives are our own business, not yours.
Oh yea, I agree with the captain upgrade based on merrit, skill, and etc...
I hate flying with guys who scare the hell out of everyone. Oh yea..........flew with a bunch of those at AJI.
flying_gringo
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2001
- Posts
- 78
135fr8r-
I left for better money, better equipment, and more time off - but for a low time guy it was a great introduction to jets - and a golden opportunity as far as pay. I get tired of all the Ameristar and part 135 bashing...they tell you the pay and schedule up front - you take the job or you don't... its not forced upon you. it was a good job - and I feel I came out a better pilot because of it.
and like all ameristar pilots - sure I took the flight plans when we got 'em... but if dispatch was busy I wasn't afraid to file myself. I do it now flying a challenger - most corporate guys I know do their own flight planning.
I think this horse is dead and beaten. I'm going back to the bar.
fg
I left for better money, better equipment, and more time off - but for a low time guy it was a great introduction to jets - and a golden opportunity as far as pay. I get tired of all the Ameristar and part 135 bashing...they tell you the pay and schedule up front - you take the job or you don't... its not forced upon you. it was a good job - and I feel I came out a better pilot because of it.
and like all ameristar pilots - sure I took the flight plans when we got 'em... but if dispatch was busy I wasn't afraid to file myself. I do it now flying a challenger - most corporate guys I know do their own flight planning.
I think this horse is dead and beaten. I'm going back to the bar.
fg
NightFlight
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- Jun 18, 2004
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SquirrelDog
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coolyokeluke
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- Nov 21, 2002
- Posts
- 313
I agree SquirrelDog. There were some good points.
I'm in my third part/full time 135 job. The one thing I did wish we had however was a seniority based upgrade. That is your seniority enabled you to apply for the upgrade, the talent/knowlege/skill portion being up to you. I've seen too much brown-nosing-politics-golden boy status in who gets to upgrade and who gets fired when the business cycle slows down in small 135 companies.
I'm in my third part/full time 135 job. The one thing I did wish we had however was a seniority based upgrade. That is your seniority enabled you to apply for the upgrade, the talent/knowlege/skill portion being up to you. I've seen too much brown-nosing-politics-golden boy status in who gets to upgrade and who gets fired when the business cycle slows down in small 135 companies.
wingnutt
...recognize this?
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- 1,079
wtf...the guy is tired of hearing the bullsh1t about his former company, so he comes in here to straighten a few things out, and half of you yahoos whine because hes talking too much. what a load of crap.
youve heard the saying about not being able to see the forest for the trees? well, put your glasses on before you walk smack into one of them there trees!
so he got off on a rant, so what? and i especially love the remark about total time. as if that has any bearing on life in any way, shape or form. perhaps he just figured some things out that takes your normal yahoo another 6,000 hours to put together in their feeble little minds.
relax and enjoy the voice of someone who has been there...good stuff gringo!
youve heard the saying about not being able to see the forest for the trees? well, put your glasses on before you walk smack into one of them there trees!
so he got off on a rant, so what? and i especially love the remark about total time. as if that has any bearing on life in any way, shape or form. perhaps he just figured some things out that takes your normal yahoo another 6,000 hours to put together in their feeble little minds.
relax and enjoy the voice of someone who has been there...good stuff gringo!
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