Ameriflight vs. a regional (like QX or Skywest)

[DirtyBeech]

geez, must have some real charming mfer's down in dallas. i can only think of 5 in the last 16 months who are now on with southwest. several others are flying boeings for large freight outfits. must be west texas flyiing, builds character i guess.

jet time, and 121 PIC are overrated. they are nice to have no doubt, but overrated. the regional guys will turn a horse into glue tyring to convince you that pityful pay, long upgrades, and killer schedules are worth....well, they don't know what their worth, as they're still rotting at a regional getting furloughed or their contracts renegotiated.

if you want to get to major NOW, then get all the PIC turbine time you can NOW. 3-5 years from now you'll be interviewing at a major as the regional guy is contemplating his captain upgrade. i'd much rather get on with a big carrier in 3-5 years, get my seniority number, and start making much more money as a WN f.o. (with a great company) than the regional guys ever dreamed. but that's just me.

AMF is a 135 cargo company. 135 freight is what it is, but i believe that it is one of, if not the best way to get to a major. you're going to fly ugly airplanes, in ugly weather, at all times of the night. you'll help load (99's and smaller at amf), and yes even have to deal with no air conditioning. man up in do it, you'll be glad you did.

btw, i'd much rather teach a good stick to push buttons, than teach a button pusher how to be a good stick. oh yeah, it doesn't hurt to know somebody either.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Though my airline (and overall) experience is more limited than Dave_Benjamin's, I'm inclined to agree with his comments. When applying to a major/national, they know -simply by your meeting their mins- that you can fly. Command experienced by flying S.P. in a Metro is great experience and undoubtedly some of the most challenging flying around. Being resourceful and self-sufficient is good- but 121s want to see teamwork skills. If you're going to be heading to their right seat from a single-pilot left seat, they'll want to see good 2pilot experience (preferably with one or more F/As thrown into the mix)-- from the perspective of both seats (obviously- hence the PIC requirements). Sounds like you already have that experience from a regional.

When I see/hear of pilots from my airline who are lucky enough to get an interview w/ their 'target' airline, I already know how it will turn out ..usually. They may be great sticks, but the ones with great personalities (ie personable, knowledgable, HUMBLE) generally get hired; the D*ckheads don't. The hiring mgr doesn't want their pilot group p*ssed off at them for hiring some full-of-himself A-hole they now have to share a cockpit with for 4days at a time.

Just my $.02
--Good Luck!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

geez, must have some real charming mfer's down in dallas. i can only think of 5 in the last 16 months who are now on with southwest. several others are flying boeings for large freight outfits.

jet time, and 121 PIC are overrated. they are nice to have no doubt, but overrated. the regional guys will turn a horse into glue tyring to convince you that pityful pay, long upgrades, and killer schedules are worth....

if you want to get to major NOW, then get all the PIC turbine time you can NOW. 3-5 years from now you'll be interviewing at a major as the regional guy is contemplating his captain upgrade.

AMF is a 135 cargo company. 135 freight is what it is, but i believe that it is one of, if not the best way to get to a major.

Wow 5 guys in a year and a half. Hate to tell you this but I know of at least one WN new hire class that had 3 of my coworkers sitting together. Ask someone like Chase or one of the other WN guys on flightinfo what the typical new hire class has as far as backgrounds. I think you'll find single pilot freight is not a large percentage of new hires at any major. It's pretty much a mix of military, airline, and corp/frac folks. I know 2 people that I flew with at AMF that got on with WN. I don't know of any that went to AS. I also don't know any that went to FedEx, UPS, Co, or F9. As far as flying "Boeings for large freight outfits" if you're talking about supplementals those jobs often pay less and have worse working conditions than a regional.

"jet time, and 121 PIC are overrated."
"pityful pay, long upgrades, and killer schedules"

Funny but when you look at the websites of airlines that are hiring like JetBlue, CO, UPS, FedEx,and WN they seem to be looking for guys with PIC jet time.

I'm not sure what you're smoking but not all regionals fit that description. The schedule at AMF tends to be 4 or 5 days a week and you show really early, sit all day at an outstation, and then fly home. In some cases you're really home only long enough to shower, go to bed, and rush out at zero dark thirty. Sadly AMF and other 135 outfits have suffered fatalities from guys falling asleep and flying into terrain. To me that's more of a killer schedule than a 4 day trip with 70 hours away from base even with a reduced rest overnight in the middle. Granted some trips are harder than others and involve more time away from base but if you've got 14, 15 or more days off it's a lot better than AMF IMHO. Next month my schedule is 3 day trips with 17 days off. Show at 1035 and off at 1940. This month it was a 4 day that shows at 1521 and releases at 1150 with 15 days off.

Long upgrades? Depends on where you are. At QX it takes a long time but in the past it's been better. SKYW has had guys upgrade in months but the norm lately has probably been more like 2-3 years. Some places it's going to take a while. I've seen a few of our FO's get picked up by CO with no PIC time.

Pitiful pay? Unless you're working for a really crappy regional second year pay will exceed AMF pay and it continues to outpace AMF every year. Yes first year is pretty paltry. Of course it's not much better at UPS or CO first year (27 and 30 per hour respectively)

One of the shortcomings of AMF is that even if you do get a Be-99 or Metro run you don't build time all that fast. When I was at AMF a lot of those guys only flew a few hours per day. Some of them had split runs where they were flying the PA-31 part of the time.

If majors were hiring single pilot Part 135 guys in large quantities then going to AMF and sticking it out would be a great plan. Fact is the majors hire a few single pilot Part 135 guys here and there, and most likely do so because of some good LOR's and other networking.

I had to laugh when I read:

"if you want to get to major NOW, then get all the PIC turbine time you can NOW. 3-5 years from now you'll be interviewing at a major as the regional guy is contemplating his captain upgrade."

Do you know how many guys I know that already have 3-5 years in as RJ captain, a college degree, and a few LOR's that are still waiting for an interview at a decent major? You have no idea how much competition there is for a relative handful of slots. A good airline like WN probably has 15,000 qualified applicants in their database. A friend at AS told me they had over 10,000 apps on file.

Counting on getting on with a good major after 3-5 years at AMF is more of a long shot than a likelihood. With Check-21 coming into play I'm not sure how stable AMF will be in the next few years Don't they still do a lot of bank work?

 

[AZaviator]

Hey Dave, where do you fly? Just curious.

I haven't seen any kind of big effects yet in our flight scheduels due to Check 21. I believe our Lear contracts are still good through sometime next year. On the turboprop side of things, I have not seen any kind of decline in business due to Check 21. It could happen, but I have not seen it yet. In addition, our bank flights carry a lot more things, in addition to canceled checks. The merger of ABX and DHL has created changes in our schedule more than anything.

As I mentioned before, a lot of our pilots do not want to fly for a large carrier such as UPS or SWA. Many do, but many don't. 135 single pilots guys seem to be quite interested in corporate jobs other flying jobs other than flying for the majors. Me personally, I do not want to fly for an unstable regional, nor do I want to fly for a larger air carrier and have to commute. Ameriflight is a good place to build up PIC turbine time and sit back and decide where you want to go next. It seems like many regional pilots have the attitude of wanting to get their 121 time and then get the heck out as soon as possible. For me, the quality of life is good and I'm always keeping my eye open for opportunities out there. However I'm very content where I am and don't feel the need to jump ship as soon as I can. I think a lot of pilots at Ameriflight share my opinion. We have a lot of pilots who left the regionals to come here, while I'm sure the regionals have many ex Ameriflight guys. As stated before, it just depends on what you want.

 

[captainover]

Thanks for the input!

Hey everybody who responded... It's very helpful to hear all your insights. Very interesting. I appreciate it.

 

[AV8R N8]

Just wondering what AMF minimums are and are they allowed to lower the minimums for people who get LOR from people within AMF?

Thanks

 

[Socalplt]

Another thing to consider -- what if you can't get hired somewhere good in 3-5 years. Where would you rather be stuck, RJ captain or .. ? Like Dave said, I know guys here at SkyWest with 6-7000+ hours, multiple types, and years of 121 PIC experience that haven't been able to move on

 

[psysicx]

Doesn't the EMB have 2 pilots? Which would get you onto a major since T-prop time is okay.

 

[citabriapilot]

Here's what blows my mind...someone mentioned that they want crew experience and like that the RJ has an FMS which pilots would be familiar with. Well, I may not know everything, but it seems like a new RJ and new B737 are basically the same type of machine. Very automated, nice FMS's, etc. etc. One just carries a smaller load. Same automation, same concept.

So...how can a regional pilot with 600 hours and NO crew experience and no glass experience get trained to fly the RJ. Same way a B737 FO from Ameriflight can do it.

Seems to me like all the "other" requirements other then turbine time are just a way for big companies to limit their hiring or what not. Know the right person and be in the right place at the right time. Seems like that's the only way no matter what.

 

[wheelsup]

I think the real question here is about lifestyle. Looking down the road 2-5 years, both places will get you to the same place - PIC turbine.

If you like ameriflight's bases, work there. If you want to live somewhere else and commute, work for a regional.

Who cares if you get to a 'major' 1-2 years faster via ameriflight. If you hate the job and hate where you live, it's not worth it IMO.

~wheelsup

 

[Superpilot92]

Here's what blows my mind...someone mentioned that they want crew experience and like that the RJ has an FMS which pilots would be familiar with. Well, I may not know everything, but it seems like a new RJ and new B737 are basically the same type of machine. Very automated, nice FMS's, etc. etc. One just carries a smaller load. Same automation, same concept.

So...how can a regional pilot with 600 hours and NO crew experience and no glass experience get trained to fly the RJ. Same way a B737 FO from Ameriflight can do it.

Seems to me like all the "other" requirements other then turbine time are just a way for big companies to limit their hiring or what not. Know the right person and be in the right place at the right time. Seems like that's the only way no matter what.

Its easy to adapt with only 600 hours but when you fly round dials for a few thousand hours it sometimes can be harder to adapt to the automation.

 

[skid]

Hey just curious if anyone out there can give me an idea of what life would be like, and if it were possible to get on at AMF in SEA. I recently left QX for a cargo carrier flying heavy iron. So far what I am seeing it is not for me. I was at QX for about 3 years when I need the move and would like to get on with Alaska at some point. Hopefully sooner then later. The life style of being away from home for over 2 weeks straight has me stressed and needing a change. Any suggestions?? Also Any word on the SEA base and times to get to PIC there?

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Hey just curious if anyone out there can give me an idea of what life would be like, and if it were possible to get on at AMF in SEA. I recently left QX for a cargo carrier flying heavy iron. So far what I am seeing it is not for me. I was at QX for about 3 years when I need the move and would like to get on with Alaska at some point. Hopefully sooner then later. The life style of being away from home for over 2 weeks straight has me stressed and needing a change. Any suggestions?? Also Any word on the SEA base and times to get to PIC there?

Sorry to hear your current position is not what you were expecting. In regards to AMF BFI, it is a very senior base, your best bet might be to call our ACP at BFI (Brent Love) and talk to him about being "part time on call". However right now we are a bit fat with pilot's at this time.

 

[SE-30]

I made over $47,000 this year at AMF, but I took every TDY trip I could! Yippie! And I've been here just over 2 1/2 years.

 

[Photoflight]

Its easy to adapt with only 600 hours but when you fly round dials for a few thousand hours it sometimes can be harder to adapt to the automation.

So....more flight time makes it harder to push the AP button?