American and Eagle

[captjim]

Reports: AMR conditionally
willing to merge seniority lists

Jan. 28, 2003--AMR Corp. has submitted a counterproposal in response to a union request to merge the seniority lists at American Airlines and American Eagle, the company's $1.3 billion-a-year regional airline operation, according to several published reports.

The Allied Pilots Association, the union representing American's mainline pilots, proposed to AMR Corp. last year that all AMR flying be done by American Airlines pilots. This proposal included a flow-through agreement for existing Eagle pilots and a provision for returning American's furloughed pilots back to the cockpit--of regional jets--as new aircraft came on line. American currently has more than 1,000 pilots on furlough.

The three-phase plan was quickly dismissed by the company, but AMR reportedly made an offer this week to merge the seniority lists, but only if it cost the airline nothing, presumably meaning that Eagle pilots would continue to fly at their contract rates. One published report indicated that AMR also wants authority to fly more regional jets as part of the deal. Eagle's pilots are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association.

One American Eagle executive, president Peter Bowler, warned that merging the lists could result in the sale of Eagle's assets if further downsizing occurred at AMR, according to an article published in Saturday's Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

Despite its classification as a commuter airline, Eagle is a large operation and generates 7.7 percent of AMR Corp.'s total revenue. It operates a fleet of regional jet and turboprop aircraft. Eagle reported an increase in traffic of 11 percent for 2002.

So what do you guys know?

 

[mckpickle]

Jesus Chri$t. Hey CONTINENTAL PILOTS WAKE THE F UP. This could have been us years ago

 

[Typhoon1244]

One American Eagle executive, president Peter Bowler, warned that merging the lists could result in the sale of Eagle's assets if further downsizing occurred at AMR...

Okay, I'm dense. How does he figure a merger of lists will result in a possible sale of assets?

 

[FastPilot]

In case of another round of furloughs at the mainline, resulting in a large # of flow backs into the RJs, and the associated costs of 500-1000 training cycles. He is saying that if that becomes reality, AMR will simply sell Eagle to negate the entire deal. Of course, something else to remember is that a lot of management jobs would probably end if a merger were to take place. However all of this is moot anyway untill the Eagle MEC joins the negotiations, and I would be willing to bet that Hell will freeze before the membership votes to accept a list staple below all of the TWA people. The feeling around Eagle is that we would rather walk away and be spun off instead of becoming furlough fodder for TWA.

Steve

 

[seagle]

Gee, do ya think old Peter is worried about losing his job? Think about the cost savings realized by AMR by eliminating a layer of management, crew sked, dispatch, chief pilots, MOC and on and on. Probably some money left over to purchase a few RJs and make the company competitve again. I have never understood how "management" generates revenue? I thought it was the aircrews flying pax in airplanes. Just my 2 pennies worth.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Jesus Chri$t. Hey CONTINENTAL PILOTS WAKE THE F UP. This could have been us years ago

I hear ya, mckpickle...but it's not too late.

In fact, with the industry like it is, now is probably the best time to get a SSL by a majority vote.. More people realize the importance of a SSL now than in '98.

I am one of the 96 mainline pilots furloughed right now. As long as the staple doesn't mean more will be furloughed from the bottom of Express, I say let's do it. I am prepared to stay out as long as it takes to get a new 'quality' contract signed.

I will not be taking the Express recall or the Commutair deal with hopes of returning to CAL in the next several years. With a SSL in place, I would only expect to return to mainline as the airline grows (?) and not at the expense of another pilot.

 

[PilotMonkey]

I would be willing to bet that Hell will freeze before the membership votes to accept a list staple below all of the TWA people.

I bet many people felt the same way before the Eagle pilots signed their infamous 16 year contract!

 

[skydiverdriver]

Funny how they didn't want this two years ago, huh? Just another attempt by the mainline pilots to take the regional pilot's jobs away so they don't have to be furloughed. I hope the regional guys don't fall for this trick. Good luck guys.

 

[TWA Dude]

The feeling around Eagle is that we would rather walk away and be spun off instead of becoming furlough fodder for TWA.

I think that's a moot point. AMR has no intention of creating a new seniority list that will cause any retraining of Eagle pilots into AA airplanes. Obviously until AA starts hiring again Eagle guys won't be flowing up in any way. By the same token AMR won't create a seniority list that'll result in significant back-flow. The only possibility, and I don't say likliehood, is that AMR will purchase RJ170s or something like that and have AA pilots fly it at some payscale close to Eagle. In the meantime Eagle would still get 50-seat jets.

I don't know what will happen. I think we're likely to see a major airline fail at some point and that'll change everything again.

Dude

 

[FastPilot]

I bet many people felt the same way before the Eagle pilots signed their infamous 16 year contract!

The difference is that then they had ammunition to threaten the different pilot groups that were trying to merge. The feeling among many was that we needed them. They were scared. It's the opposite now. We are angry and spitefull, as well as mobilized to form a concensous. I don't think this pilot group has ever been so unified. Now everyone realizes that they need us, and MANY are excited about the prospect of getting spun off. We'll see what happens.

Steve

 

[FastPilot]

This was posted by another Eagle pilot on another board.

"Okay folks this is my suggestion, for the seniority integration, everyone stays put where they are, the furloughees stay where they are at AA and AE. If AA dumps more pilots, they will come to AE only if AE is hiring and if their seniority number allows them. If their seniority number allows them to have a CA seat at AE, so let be it. Now if after the down turn cycle starts to change, maybe in 10 years or so, then if AA needs pilots, they will come from whoever holds the highest number, street or AE pilot,if a AE pilot goes to AA he will have to sit FO for 13 months before he can bit CA at AA. Anybody else will have to be hire at the bottom of the list, obviously the bottom of AE. Now this only and I repeat only will work if DOH is used. Now what do you think?"

As a side note, there has never been a list staple at AMR, and it shouldn't start now.

Semper Fi,
Steve

 

[FastPilot]

AMR shares fall to all-time low




Wednesday January 29, 11:24 AM EST

By Jon Herskovitz

DALLAS, Jan 29 (Reuters) - Shares in American Airlines parent company AMR Corp. (AMR) fell to an all-time low on Wednesday as a gloomy economic outlook and fears of bankruptcy at the world's largest airline scared off investors, Wall Street analysts said.

In early trading on Wednesday, AMR shares were down 12 cents, or 3.8 percent, to $3.01, surpassing the all-time low of $3.02 set in intraday trading in October.

AMR shares fell below the $4 plateau last week when the company said it posted the largest yearly loss in the aviation industry, losing $3.5 billion in 2002.

Analysts and AMR executives said the underlying trend shows the carrier is operating at a level that is not sustainable -- losing about $5 million a day.



"We believe that the risk of a potential near-term bankruptcy filing has increased appreciably," Salomon Smith Barney analysts Reno Bianchi and Soo Koon Lee wrote in a research report issued earlier this week.

"At this stage we increase the possibility of a potential filing within the next 12 to 18 months from our earlier 20 percent to 25 percent estimate to 35 percent to 40 percent," they said.

AMR executives have said one of the keys to turning their airline around will be to drastically cut costs so that it can be competitive with low-fare airlines, such as Southwest.

AMR has said it is looking to reduce its operating costs by about $4 billion, and it has already identified $2 billion in cuts.

The airline has slashed its capacity and cut its work force since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks walloped the travel industry. AMR executives have said reductions in personnel costs will be a large part of the mix in the remaining $2 billion of their savings goal.

"The key to stronger operating results is considerably reduced wages, and, or, a change in existing agreements aimed at fostering considerable productivity enhancements," the Salomon analysts said.

Don Carty, AMR's chairman and chief executive officer, said last week when the company released its fourth-quarter earnings report that said a sluggish economy, high fuel costs and global uncertainties such as the possibility of war in Iraq, could hurt the airline's bottom line.

Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR reported a fourth-quarter loss of $529 million, or $3.39 a share, compared with a loss of $5.17 a share a year earlier. Analysts, on average, had expected a loss of $3.73 per share, according to Thomson First Call.

Wall Street experts said some of the others areas of concern are talks with the airline's unions over wage concessions, AMR's projections of substantial losses continuing in the first quarter, and financial obligations such as funding pensions and meeting the terms of loan covenants.

"The slide in share prices is a combination of trepidation about the revenue environment, the threat of war, and the prospects for difficult labor negotiations that American has to complete in a short period of time," said Gary Chase, airline analyst at Lehman Brothers.


©2003 Reuters Limited.
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[Airline Pilot27]

Everyone who suggests DOH between Eagle and AA is in fact suggesting that Eagle be sold or spun off. There is no way and I repeat no way that DOH will ever happen with AA. It didn't happen with RENO, it didn't happen with TWA and it sure as hell will not happen with us. The funny thing is that in my experience it seems that the few pilots still around that voted for the 16 year disgrace are the ones asking for DOH. I just hope these guys don't screw us again by killing any chance of a SSL with AA. If you want to be sold off then fine but do not be so arrogant as to suggest that you should take that 777 Cpt. spot that you so rightfully deserve. A staple with endless eagle furlough protection for all on the property will in my opinion be approved by the majority of the membership as long as all newhires start at Eagle.
Off my soap Box...feeling much better

 

[FastPilot]

all newhires start at Eagle.
Off my soap Box...feeling much better

That's the key....