Am I honestly a retard???

[Whirlwind]

Maybe I'm giving this guy too much credit, but I don't think this is the kind of division that he's talking about. Your example uses nice round numbers that are trivial to deal with in your head. I think he's thinking of math problems more along the lines of, "Total moment is 264,614.16, and your weight is 2257.8, what's your CG? Whaddya mean you need a calculator? To be a professional, you need to be able to do it on paper!"

Ahh, that is different...

But then that sort of thing is figured on the ground, not in the air.

I can't do that on paper either, this is why we have calculators.

 

[Whirlwind]

The calculator was a devise that was legal to use throughout many years of my schooling. Eliminating the need to figure computations on paper also eliminated the need to remember how to do so. Eventually, prior teachings became forgotten, and the road to dependance (on the calculator) was established. Forgive me father.

Ditto... 5th grade was the last year calculators wer forbidden, after that we all had them. By high school algebra, they were REQUIRED, we all had TI-35 or TI-36X calculators in class, you got a demerit if you didn't bring yours.

 

[TonyC]

I've yet to see even one reply from you that wasn't degrading in nature. Therefore, I will not attempt to defend myself knowing full-well such actions will be done in vain. Despite this, the point you raise may be considered valid to the majority. With this in mind, I will give an honest answer. The calculator was a devise that was legal to use throughout many years of my schooling. Eliminating the need to figure computations on paper also eliminated the need to remember how to do so. Eventually, prior teachings became forgotten, and the road to dependance (on the calculator) was established. Forgive me father.

Perhaps it is a generational phenomenon, or perhaps not. When I went to school we were expected to write legibly, spell correctly, and perform mathematics with pencils, tables, and - - gasp - - even a slide rule in high school. Today my children are not expected to even spell correctly. It sickens me. I was embarrased a few weeks ago to admit to my daughter that I had forgotten the quadratic formula. I would rather die that admit to this forum that I had forgotten how to DIVIDE.


Sorry if you were offended by my response - - I thought I was being rather tame.

 

[-Xavier-]

My ground school teacher won't do hardly anything without a calculator because why wouldn't you? We are taught to take flashlights with us at night when we fly in our flight bag. Yes, you need a general understanding of how math works, but there is no harm in using a calculator, IMO.

 

[Goose Egg]

Did you guys know that you can multiply and divide with your slide rule E6B? It's actually pretty simple. Consult your instruction booklet. No calculators necessary.

-Goose

 

[minitour]

Your 20 miles out from the airport at 10,000 feet. Field Elevation is 1,000 feet. Your doing 120kts accross the ground (or is the ground doing 120kts under you?) anyway, when do you start your descent. By the way its night time, so you can't see the keys of your calculator, and its solar powered.


See the need for division. And this is just the tip of the iceburg.

Nope...pull out an approach plate and cross the fixes at the right altitudes and who cares...

-mini

 

[bigD]

Perhaps it is a generational phenomenon, or perhaps not. When I went to school we were expected to write legibly, spell correctly, and perform mathematics with pencils, tables, and - - gasp - - even a slide rule in high school. Today my children are not expected to even spell correctly. It sickens me. I was embarrased a few weeks ago to admit to my daughter that I had forgotten the quadratic formula. I would rather die that admit to this forum that I had forgotten how to DIVIDE.

I dunno - I don't think it's as bad as you think. I'm not sure why your children aren't expected to spell correctly - that sounds like a failing of their teacher or perhaps the school as a whole, but I don't see that as a system-wide problem. Certainly I was expected to spell properly when in school. There has been a tendency in today's youth to tear up the English language when writing e-mail, IM's, or on online forums, but that's a function of trying to be cool and fit in. The same teenager that writes "cu l8tr" to his friend via IM can still turn around and write properly when required to for school. Perhaps there are cases where that's not true, but I don't think it's as big a problem as it's made out to be.

As far as the math goes, the use of calulators is just a sign of progress and time moving forward. Everything on my aluminum E6B can be done with a pencil and a piece of paper. Am I being lazy for using the E6B for calculating my fuel burn when I can simply do some elementary math on the back of a Post-It? That slide rule you used in school was a calculator. Who cares whether it's analog or digital? I'm sure you used tables to look up values for the various transcendental functions. I'll bet someone way back when said, "Back in MY day, I had to expand a Taylor series to calculate that - these friggin' lazy kids are just looking up the answer on some dumb table!"

In fact, I'd even argue that with every year, kids going off to college are *more* versed in mathematics than they were in the past. Most college freshmen these days have already had a healthy dose of calculus. My old high school is now offering classes in Differential Equations, Vector Calculus, and Fourier Analysis for those that completed the typical calculus regimen back in Middle School. I'm a few years out from High School, but I certainly didn't graduate with all that under my belt.

So I dunno, I don't think our kids are a whole lot less educated now than they were some specific time ago. They're just using different tools to learn.

 

[bigD]

Nope...pull out an approach plate and cross the fixes at the right altitudes and who cares...

-mini

How do you plan your descent to hit the fixes at the right altitudes?

 

[wrxpilot]

Perhaps it is a generational phenomenon, or perhaps not. When I went to school we were expected to write legibly, spell correctly, and perform mathematics with pencils, tables, and - - gasp - - even a slide rule in high school. Today my children are not expected to even spell correctly. It sickens me. I was embarrased a few weeks ago to admit to my daughter that I had forgotten the quadratic formula. I would rather die that admit to this forum that I had forgotten how to DIVIDE.


Sorry if you were offended by my response - - I thought I was being rather tame.

I think that's a myth... I went to high school and college in the mid-90s, and we had to do everything the "hard way" first. Of course we didn't use slide rules, but we had to use the quadratic formula, spell, write papers in APA format, etc. Maybe secondary education is different now w/ the internet (wasn't really well known when I was in high school), but I'd be surprised if what you're saying is the norm.

To Unaswerd:
I'm an engineer that has taken Calculus 1, 2, 3, differential equations, and statistics. I still SUCK at doing math in my head. But I can do it w/ a pencil and paper (no calc) if needed. Hardly a necessary skill anymore, but sometimes I'll do it when I'm to lazy to find a calculator. I agree with the others, you're CFI seems like a b****!

 

[bigD]

Did you guys know that you can multiply and divide with your slide rule E6B? It's actually pretty simple. Consult your instruction booklet. No calculators necessary.

-Goose

That slide rule E6B *is* a calculator. It's just an analog one. The only difference between it and an electronic one is the presentation. Well, that and the batteries don't die in the analog one.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Electronic means for weight & balance, and aother things for planning is fine. If you intend to eventually fly jet aircraft, you will need some basic math skills, mostly with whole numbers (3 to 1 descents, 2 to 1, etc). Sure, GPS and FMS systems will do it for you but, sooner or later, you have to do it yourself (system failures, visual approaches).

Best of Luck

CR

 

[TonyC]

Perhaps I failed to effectively communicate in my brief post. I'll attempt to clarify.


On spelling in school. Certainly my high school kids are expected to spell correctly, and have been required to do so for several years. I'm a bit bothered, though, about the philosophy used in Kindergarten and First grade where many of their compositions are approached from the perspective that spelling doesn't count, we just want them to be able to express a thought. I think they could do both (thoughts and words) at the same time, but that's just me. Emphasis on spelling comes later, and Mom & Dad get to help at home. Ultimately, as long as we're involved, I'm satisfied.


Calculators - - slide rules - - circular slide rules... I realize they're all tools, but shouldn't they have some sort of conceptual foundation? It's one thing to type 2 + 2 = but shouldn't one understand something about why? It's one thing to type 2(3+5) in a calculator, but shouldn't one understand that 2(3+5) = 2*3+2*5 or that it's also equal to 2*8 ? I'm not trying to say a prior generation was smarter or better.

But come on... how hard is it to divide on paper? Really?


How do you shop for bargains at the store? Which is the better value, 24 oz for $2.00, or 30 oz for $2.50? Quick? Which one?

I can't even remember the last time I saw a calculator, electronic or otherwise, in an airplane. Even the recent addition of the FMS to the repertoire doesn't do all the mental math that's required.

We're just talking about dividing on paper, right? What's so hard about THAT?!?

 

[bigD]

Perhaps I failed to effectively communicate in my brief post. I'll attempt to clarify.

It's probably more likely that my reading comprehension skills just plain suck.

 

[TonyC]

It's probably more likely that my reading comprehension skills just plain suck.

Well, at least you can divide!

 

[minitour]

How do you plan your descent to hit the fixes at the right altitudes?

Ask the FO...??

*yes both posts weren't meant to be serious - keepin it light*

-mini