Am I honestly a retard???

[minitour]

Your 20 miles out from the airport at 10,000 feet. Field Elevation is 1,000 feet. Your doing 120kts accross the ground (or is the ground doing 120kts under you?) anyway, when do you start your descent. By the way its night time, so you can't see the keys of your calculator, and its solar powered.


See the need for division. And this is just the tip of the iceburg.

Nope...pull out an approach plate and cross the fixes at the right altitudes and who cares...

-mini

 

[bigD]

Perhaps it is a generational phenomenon, or perhaps not. When I went to school we were expected to write legibly, spell correctly, and perform mathematics with pencils, tables, and - - gasp - - even a slide rule in high school. Today my children are not expected to even spell correctly. It sickens me. I was embarrased a few weeks ago to admit to my daughter that I had forgotten the quadratic formula. I would rather die that admit to this forum that I had forgotten how to DIVIDE.

I dunno - I don't think it's as bad as you think. I'm not sure why your children aren't expected to spell correctly - that sounds like a failing of their teacher or perhaps the school as a whole, but I don't see that as a system-wide problem. Certainly I was expected to spell properly when in school. There has been a tendency in today's youth to tear up the English language when writing e-mail, IM's, or on online forums, but that's a function of trying to be cool and fit in. The same teenager that writes "cu l8tr" to his friend via IM can still turn around and write properly when required to for school. Perhaps there are cases where that's not true, but I don't think it's as big a problem as it's made out to be.

As far as the math goes, the use of calulators is just a sign of progress and time moving forward. Everything on my aluminum E6B can be done with a pencil and a piece of paper. Am I being lazy for using the E6B for calculating my fuel burn when I can simply do some elementary math on the back of a Post-It? That slide rule you used in school was a calculator. Who cares whether it's analog or digital? I'm sure you used tables to look up values for the various transcendental functions. I'll bet someone way back when said, "Back in MY day, I had to expand a Taylor series to calculate that - these friggin' lazy kids are just looking up the answer on some dumb table!"

In fact, I'd even argue that with every year, kids going off to college are *more* versed in mathematics than they were in the past. Most college freshmen these days have already had a healthy dose of calculus. My old high school is now offering classes in Differential Equations, Vector Calculus, and Fourier Analysis for those that completed the typical calculus regimen back in Middle School. I'm a few years out from High School, but I certainly didn't graduate with all that under my belt.

So I dunno, I don't think our kids are a whole lot less educated now than they were some specific time ago. They're just using different tools to learn.

 

[bigD]

Nope...pull out an approach plate and cross the fixes at the right altitudes and who cares...

-mini

How do you plan your descent to hit the fixes at the right altitudes?

 

[wrxpilot]

Perhaps it is a generational phenomenon, or perhaps not. When I went to school we were expected to write legibly, spell correctly, and perform mathematics with pencils, tables, and - - gasp - - even a slide rule in high school. Today my children are not expected to even spell correctly. It sickens me. I was embarrased a few weeks ago to admit to my daughter that I had forgotten the quadratic formula. I would rather die that admit to this forum that I had forgotten how to DIVIDE.


Sorry if you were offended by my response - - I thought I was being rather tame.

I think that's a myth... I went to high school and college in the mid-90s, and we had to do everything the "hard way" first. Of course we didn't use slide rules, but we had to use the quadratic formula, spell, write papers in APA format, etc. Maybe secondary education is different now w/ the internet (wasn't really well known when I was in high school), but I'd be surprised if what you're saying is the norm.

To Unaswerd:
I'm an engineer that has taken Calculus 1, 2, 3, differential equations, and statistics. I still SUCK at doing math in my head. But I can do it w/ a pencil and paper (no calc) if needed. Hardly a necessary skill anymore, but sometimes I'll do it when I'm to lazy to find a calculator. I agree with the others, you're CFI seems like a b****!

 

[bigD]

Did you guys know that you can multiply and divide with your slide rule E6B? It's actually pretty simple. Consult your instruction booklet. No calculators necessary.

-Goose

That slide rule E6B *is* a calculator. It's just an analog one. The only difference between it and an electronic one is the presentation. Well, that and the batteries don't die in the analog one.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Electronic means for weight & balance, and aother things for planning is fine. If you intend to eventually fly jet aircraft, you will need some basic math skills, mostly with whole numbers (3 to 1 descents, 2 to 1, etc). Sure, GPS and FMS systems will do it for you but, sooner or later, you have to do it yourself (system failures, visual approaches).

Best of Luck

CR

 

[TonyC]

Perhaps I failed to effectively communicate in my brief post. I'll attempt to clarify.


On spelling in school. Certainly my high school kids are expected to spell correctly, and have been required to do so for several years. I'm a bit bothered, though, about the philosophy used in Kindergarten and First grade where many of their compositions are approached from the perspective that spelling doesn't count, we just want them to be able to express a thought. I think they could do both (thoughts and words) at the same time, but that's just me. Emphasis on spelling comes later, and Mom & Dad get to help at home. Ultimately, as long as we're involved, I'm satisfied.


Calculators - - slide rules - - circular slide rules... I realize they're all tools, but shouldn't they have some sort of conceptual foundation? It's one thing to type 2 + 2 = but shouldn't one understand something about why? It's one thing to type 2(3+5) in a calculator, but shouldn't one understand that 2(3+5) = 2*3+2*5 or that it's also equal to 2*8 ? I'm not trying to say a prior generation was smarter or better.

But come on... how hard is it to divide on paper? Really?


How do you shop for bargains at the store? Which is the better value, 24 oz for $2.00, or 30 oz for $2.50? Quick? Which one?

I can't even remember the last time I saw a calculator, electronic or otherwise, in an airplane. Even the recent addition of the FMS to the repertoire doesn't do all the mental math that's required.

We're just talking about dividing on paper, right? What's so hard about THAT?!?

 

[bigD]

Perhaps I failed to effectively communicate in my brief post. I'll attempt to clarify.

It's probably more likely that my reading comprehension skills just plain suck.

 

[TonyC]

It's probably more likely that my reading comprehension skills just plain suck.

Well, at least you can divide!

 

[minitour]

How do you plan your descent to hit the fixes at the right altitudes?

Ask the FO...??

*yes both posts weren't meant to be serious - keepin it light*

-mini

 

[bigD]

DOH! Sorry!

 

[Vik]

You're not retard. You'll discover lots of "basic" skills you've lost along the way because of the increased use of calculators in schools these days.

Your instructor needs to read the FOI, thats for certain.

You just learned that you need to brush up on your basic math skills. Its not a huge deal and you're not a retard. After 6th grade, how often do you really do long division? I suppose you could forget.

You need to brush up on your basic math and long division, and tell your instructor to go read the FOI. She's got some screws loose.

I hope she did not make a scene in front of a classroom full of students.

Anyway, I've seen people of all ages come in to learn how to fly, many of whom haven't had basic math or science in 30yrs! They can't tell you what the atmosphere is, what gravity is, etc. Its all "basic" but it doesn't mean you know it. They have to be explained everything carefully and they're not retards either.

I'd love to give your instructor a piece of my mind. Its because of dolts like her that a large number of people that start work on their Private never finish.

I just finished the FAA regulations in ground school, and we're moving on to aspects that deal with aircraft performance. One of the first things we did was cover density altitude, and figure such altitudes given a list of known factors. I completely understand the concepts, and also understand how to figure density altitute. The problem arrose when I needed to divide some numbers, and I said I would need a calculator. My GS instuctor looked at me kind of strange, and said "you can't figure it on paper"? I said that I had completely forgotten how to divide numbers without the use of a calculator. This did not seem to sit well with her. She went on to question me about what I wanted to do with my flying!!! She said that if I ever wanted to fly professionaly, that I should take a basic math course!!! So at this point I feel like a total retard, and all I can do is give some excuse about using calculators since 5th grade...

Now I know that I SHOULD be able to divide numbers on paper, but does anyone think she was just a little over the top? I mean, I was under the impression that you could bring a calculator to the written exam? I really do not see why it is so alarming that I simply cannot divide numbers on paper. I've seen pilots use electronic E6B's, and yet I can't use a $2 calculator?

Would really appreciate some honest advise on this.

 

[RJP]

That slide rule E6B *is* a calculator. It's just an analog one. The only difference between it and an electronic one is the presentation. Well, that and the batteries don't die in the analog one.

So's an abacus but you don't see anyone using that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ing thing in an aircraft either. Give the kid a break. Who cares HOW you figure out when to do what as long as you figure it out before it's too late.

And Tony, "Quadratic" what? What the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** are you talking about man. I can see why you're embarassed but we're probably not thinking of the same reason.

I bet you guys think that all military pilots are aeronautical engineers from the academy, too. Plenty of artists and history majors that couldn't divide their way out of a paper bag. Hate to break it to ya, but it's just not that important.

 

[RJP]

Vik, did you call that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** a dolt? Whoa. That must've come from the dictionary page you linked to earlier! ;-)

Chicks like that give a bad name to the ones that do a good job in the industry.

ps. Why is the word "bitch" not censored but "**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**" is?

 

[TonyC]

And Tony, "Quadratic" what? What the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** are you talking about man. I can see why you're embarassed but we're probably not thinking of the same reason.

It's Algebra I - - in our school district, it's required for High School graduation.

 

[Captain4242]

I bring a little pocket calculator with me when I fly; I thought it would help out with weight and balances. Turns out that I really only use it to figure out how much fuel I'll buy from the FBO; and may I say that my fuel loads have been great lately!

I say she was out of line.

 

[TopGun-MAV]

don't be to hard on yourself. i just finished jungle jet training for mesa and i have yet to use diddicult head formulas. for crossing restrictons i just descend at 3000fpm and i'll be sure to make it


maverivick - jungle jet fo, be1900 fo

 

[bigD]

Speaking of retards....

 

[Uncle Sparky]

Speaking of retards....

Oh stop!! you're just being "diddicult"!! Hey Mavurerurik....lay off the sauce and get that shift key fixed!!

 

[qmaster3]

UnAnswered

The fact that your paying this B----, how much $$ to learn how to fly would concern me. There are enough CFI's in this world. Find one you like. Don't let anyone tell you what you will or won't do!