Alpha Flying (PC-12s) or Avantair (P180s)?

[Heavy Set]

If you had the choice, which of these fractionals would you choose (not me - I was asked this question)? Clearly the P180 offers mulitengine turbine time, but I have heard some good things about the PC-12 (very nice flying characteristics). Any opinions about either operation?

 

[Humphreybogart]

Why are you concerned about multi-engine turbine time if you have 12,000 hours? I would just go with the best operation.

 

[On Your Six]

Hey Humphrey,

If you actually read the post, you'll note that he was asked that question by someone else.

Maybe he is just looking for informed opinions. I have seen both operations on the line and both appear to be doing well. Personally, I like the sporty Piaggio - but the PC-12 looks very roomy and I have heard that it is fun to fly.

 

[GVFlyer]

My 2 cents...

Count the engines. The Pilatus is one engine failure away from being a glider and I've had engine failures with the PT-6A. Fortunately, there was always another one on the other wing to get me to an airport.

I did a closed loop handling qualities evaluation of the Piaggio 180 for the military and was impressed by it's numbers, but it is delicate. It does, however, have two engines...

GV

 

[hopeIcan]

What is going on at avantair anyway? I heard the D.O. left?!?!?!

 

[MovingTarget]

Delicate?

Hey GVFlyer,
What did you mean by the Piaggio 180 being delicate? What else did you learn in the evaluation? I've seen the fractional numbers on it and it looks pretty good. Other than that, I don't know much about it besides it looks like a snazzy little ride for a prop job. Thanks for the info.

 

[Jolimon]

I have a fair amount of time in both aircraft and it is impossible to compare them. They are two very different aircraft. The Pilatus is a very capable short field aircraft and a good safe owner flown aircraft. The Piaggio has similiar performance to a Citation Bravo and has the cabin size of an Excel. The Piaggio is about 110 to 120kts faster, but would have an interesting time landing on a grass strip. (although the Canadian Royal Mounties turned in 2 of their PC-12's for two Piaggio's and have equipped them for unimproved strips. Flying in the Mid 30's has its benefits as well. Aside from the single engine aspect my biggest concern in the Pilatus is the lack of fire suppression, given the location of the engine. The Piaggio has hot wings and has the best deicing capabilities that I have ever seen. The Avanti is solid as a rock in turbulence and has great dispatch reliability. As far as the programs go, I have also flown for both Alpha Fying and Avantair. They are both great companies to work for offering great maintenence, pay, and schedules. I can only speak for Avantair as far as growth goes. They are currently add 1 aircraft per month for the next 3 years and hire regularly. In August they added 17 new pilots. The Director of Ops left Avantair for a job nearly no one could turn down.

 

[On Your Six]

I have a fair amount of time in both aircraft and it is impossible to compare them. They are two very different aircraft. The Pilatus is a very capable short field aircraft and a good safe owner flown aircraft. The Piaggio has similiar performance to a Citation Bravo and has the cabin size of an Excel. The Piaggio is about 110 to 120kts faster, but would have an interesting time landing on a grass strip. (although the Canadian Royal Mounties turned in 2 of their PC-12's for two Piaggio's and have equipped them for unimproved strips. Flying in the Mid 30's has its benefits as well. Aside from the single engine aspect my biggest concern in the Pilatus is the lack of fire suppression, given the location of the engine. The Piaggio has hot wings and has the best deicing capabilities that I have ever seen. The Avanti is solid as a rock in turbulence and has great dispatch reliability. As far as the programs go, I have also flown for both Alpha Fying and Avantair. They are both great companies to work for offering great maintenence, pay, and schedules. I can only speak for Avantair as far as growth goes. They are currently add 1 aircraft per month for the next 3 years and hire regularly. In August they added 17 new pilots. The Director of Ops left Avantair for a job nearly no one could turn down.

How far would the Alpha Flying PC-12s and Avantair P180s fly? I know that the AF PC-12s are based in the Northeast - would they fly out West or down to Florida/Caribbean? I know the PC-12 has long legs and can fly real far. But for AF, would the Pilatus fly primarily a regional profile or could you actually get pretty decent route variety (or are you flying to HPN or TEB every other leg)?

Given that Avantair is more of a national frax, I am betting that those aircraft fly all over the country. How long are your longest legs? Is the cockpit still comfortable after those long legs or are you cramping? I parked next to one a few days back - gorgeous airplane!

 

[7B2]

Count the engines. The Pilatus is one engine failure away from being a glider a

Couldn't agree more

 

[Jolimon]

The Avantair program is a national program and pilots can expect to fly any where in the US, Canada, Caribbean, and Mexico. Once you are in the Avanti cockpit there is a lot of room and the seats are comfortable. Average legs are about 1.5 to 2 hours.

 

[EAP]

Does the Piaggio entail a type (above 12,500)? Looks very nice.

 

[Jolimon]

The Piaggio is 11,550 so no type is required.

 

[rattler]

Alpha flying is a good gig. I would recomend it. Good schedule 6 on 4 off, 401K, I flew approximately 500 hrs a year there. The overnights are good with nice hotels and almost always a rental car.

Alpha does do alot of flying from TEB and HPN to FLA, Marsh Harbor, Treasure Cay, etc. Almost exclusivly, most winter flying is done to these destinations. In the summer expect mostly day trips to ACK, MVY and various Maine destinations.

Overall, they are very nice people to work for, and my time there was a pleasant experience.

 

[On Your Six]

Alpha flying is a good gig. I would recomend it. Good schedule 6 on 4 off, 401K, I flew approximately 500 hrs a year there. The overnights are good with nice hotels and almost always a rental car.

Alpha does do alot of flying from TEB and HPN to FLA, Marsh Harbor, Treasure Cay, etc. Almost exclusivly, most winter flying is done to these destinations. In the summer expect mostly day trips to ACK, MVY and various Maine destinations.

Overall, they are very nice people to work for, and my time there was a pleasant experience.

Rattler,

How long are those trips from TEB and HPN to FLA, Marsh Harbor and Treasure Cay in the PC-12 during the winter? What altitude would you need to fly at and what sort of cruise speed would you expect? Was the PC-12 a comfortable cockpit over those hours? Nice airplane.