ALPA's 70 seat scope dam has a hole in it

[~~~^~~~]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]US Airways will have the right to repurchase the slots. US Airways and Republic remain in discussions about additional 70 and 90-seat regional jets that might be added to the US Airways Express fleet in future years.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]"Republic Airways looks forward to its expanded role with US Airways. The addition of the Embraer 170's under the US Airways Express brand is a very positive development for our employees and shareholders," said Bryan Bedford, Chairman, President and CEO of Republic Airways Holdings.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Republic Airways Holdings, based in Indianapolis, Indiana, is an airline holding company that operates Chautauqua Airlines, Republic Airlines and Shuttle America.[/size][/font]

CONTACT: Republic Airways Holdings Inc. Warren R. Wilkinson, 317-484-6042 SOURCE: Republic Airways Holdings Inc.
------

You guys can blame this on Regional pilots all you want, but we are not the ones negotiating, signing and ratifying these deals with non ALPA carriers.

 

[General Lee]

Not ours. We allow any of our DCI carriers to fly any size airplane, as long as they don't fly it for us. SkyWest wants to fly airbuses for United eventually too. Not good, but CHQ gave USAir needed cash, and the judge allowed it. I don't think ALPA was cheering for that, but Chap 11 court can allow things over what ALPA wants. Still doesn't make it right, but the USAir pilots and now the AWA guys will unfortunately see the E190s and shake their heads. Sad.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SF340Guy]

.....

 

[FlyingDawg]

The scope erosion will continue at Delta. How can Delta compete with other carriers if they don't answer these competitive pressures? Delta will be forced to respond to both Airways and JetBlue purchase and operation of the 190 aircraft. I very seriously doubt these aircraft will be operated by mainline at Delta if others operate them at their connection carriers.

 

[~~~^~~~]

...but CHQ gave USAir needed cash, and the judge allowed it. I don't think ALPA was cheering for that, but Chap 11 court can allow things over what ALPA wants. Still doesn't make it right, but the USAir pilots and now the AWA guys will unfortunately see the E190s and shake their heads. Sad.

Bye Bye--General Lee

General - errr' not anymore. Here is the whole article. CHQ is not giving US Air anything. Just buying the airplanes, slots, gates and code. America West is doing the buying and remember, America West has other 90 seat RJ's....

You can beat your chest that your MEC will not give up any more flying, but their reputation is not very strong on the issue. If Comair is talking about E170's you can bet that they are thinking E190's. After all, Comair already has a perfectly good 70 seat airplane without the complexity on another fleet type.

When are you going to join the RJDC? ALPA's apartied scope aint working.

!!!^!!!

Republic Airways to Purchase Embraer 170 Aircraft, Slots and Other Assets from US Airways
[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]INDIANAPOLIS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 23, 2005--Republic Airways Holdings Inc. (NASDAQ:RJET), announced today that it will proceed with plans to purchase 28 Embraer 170's and other assets from US Airways for approximately $100 million.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Republic Airways announced in March 2005 a three-part agreement with US Airways that (1) amended its existing code-share agreement, (2) allowed Republic to purchase certain assets, and (3) allowed, under certain conditions, Republic to become an equity investor in the US Airways Chapter 11 restructuring. Since that time, the US Airways-America West merger has been announced, the US Airways business plan has changed, and other equity participants have committed to invest in the merged companies. Republic received notification today that US Airways has elected not to request Republic to invest in the reorganization and merger, but has exercised its option to proceed with the asset sales.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Accordingly, Republic will purchase ten aircraft and assume the leases of an additional 18 Embraer 170 aircraft and will operate them in the US Airways network under a previously negotiated regional jet service agreement that has been approved by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court. Republic Airways will also purchase, and then lease back to US Airways, 113 commuter slots at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, and 24 commuter slots at New York La Guardia Airport. Other assets to be acquired include a flight simulator, spare parts, and certain facilities to support the aircraft operations. The purchase of assets is expected to close on or before July 31, 2005.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Republic expects to take delivery of the first Embraer 170 late this summer after its Republic Airline subsidiary receives its operating certificate. Until such time, US Airways will lease back the aircraft from Republic. Republic expects to complete the transition by mid-2006.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]US Airways will have the right to repurchase the slots. US Airways and Republic remain in discussions about additional 70 and 90-seat regional jets that might be added to the US Airways Express fleet in future years.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]"Republic Airways looks forward to its expanded role with US Airways. The addition of the Embraer 170's under the US Airways Express brand is a very positive development for our employees and shareholders," said Bryan Bedford, Chairman, President and CEO of Republic Airways Holdings.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Republic Airways Holdings, based in Indianapolis, Indiana, is an airline holding company that operates Chautauqua Airlines, Republic Airlines and Shuttle America. The company offers scheduled passenger service on more than 800 flights daily to 82 cities in 32 states, Canada and the Bahamas through airline services agreements with four major U.S. airlines. All of its flights are operated under its major airline partner brand, such as AmericanConnection, Delta Connection, United Express and US Airways Express. The airline currently employs more than 2,900 aviation professionals and operates 123 aircraft including 23 Embraer 170 aircraft.[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]Additional Information[/size][/font]

[font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=-1]In addition to historical information, this release contains forward-looking statements. Republic Airways may, from time-to-time, make written or oral forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such statements encompass Republic Airways' beliefs, expectations, hopes or intentions regarding future events. Words such as "expects," "intends," "believes," "anticipates," "should," "likely" and similar expressions identify forward-looking statements. All forward-looking statements included in this release are made as of the date hereof and are based on information available to Republic Airways as of such date. Republic Airways assumes no obligation to update any forward-looking statement. Actual results may vary, and may vary materially, from those anticipated, estimated, projected or expected for a number of reasons, including, among others, the risks discussed in our Form 10-K and our other filings made with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which discussions are incorporated into this release by reference.[/size][/font]

CONTACT: Republic Airways Holdings Inc. Warren R. Wilkinson, 317-484-6042 SOURCE: Republic Airways Holdings

 

[michael707767]

Not ours. We allow any of our DCI carriers to fly any size airplane, as long as they don't fly it for us. SkyWest wants to fly airbuses for United eventually too.

Gotta call you on that one Gen. Not true. A DCI carrier can fly an aircraft that is certified for up to 106 seats, but configured for 97 or fewer seats, as long as it is not flown for Delta, and it cannot be operated on a city pair served by Delta or any Delta affiliate.

 

[michael707767]

Delta will be forced to respond to both Airways and JetBlue purchase and operation of the 190 aircraft. I very seriously doubt these aircraft will be operated by mainline at Delta if others operate them at their connection carriers.

Hmm, didn't know Jetblue had a connection carrier.

But, I agree with you. Delta management will be going after our scope to raise it to 100 seats, you can bet on it.

 

[doh]

I think he's refering to the pay rate, not the fact that they have a connection carrier.

 

[blzr]

Maybe the regional guys should SCOPE out the big boys. They say we can't fly anything over 50 seats..... yeah right.... you guys are a major, you can'y fly anything under 110 seats. Seams fair to me.

Then you say, you can't do that to us because we are a major, and we have more power. Then I say, "ALPA doesn't truely represent every pilot equally."

 

[michael707767]

Maybe the regional guys should SCOPE out the big boys. They say we can't fly anything over 50 seats..... yeah right.... you guys are a major, you can'y fly anything under 110 seats. Seams fair to me.

Then you say, you can't do that to us because we are a major, and we have more power. Then I say, "ALPA doesn't truely represent every pilot equally."

Hey, you want to get scope saying major airline pilots cannot fly a 110 seat aircraft on the code of the regional partner, more power to you. Do any regionals even do any flying on their own code??

See thats the thing. Like it or not, a long time ago the pilots at the majors negotiated the right to do the flying under the code of their airline. If they want to allow exceptions which permit some outsourcing, that still doesn't change the fact that they negotiated the right to control who does the flying of that code. Nor does it change the fact that the company also agreed to it.

 

[General Lee]

Gotta call you on that one Gen. Not true. A DCI carrier can fly an aircraft that is certified for up to 106 seats, but configured for 97 or fewer seats, as long as it is not flown for Delta, and it cannot be operated on a city pair served by Delta or any Delta affiliate.

Hoops, you're right. Good catch.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[blzr]

If they want to allow exceptions which permit some outsourcing, that still doesn't change the fact that they negotiated the right to control who does the flying of that code. Nor does it change the fact that the company also agreed to it.

Yes, I will agree that they did, and the company agreed.

Now, jump foreward 20 years to where we are now. The Majors call the PDT, Comair, ASA, etc.. scooter trash, among other names. This could have been prevented by including ALL the flying under one carrier. IE. Delta flyes ALL of their aircraft from the ATR to the 777. That's not the case now is it?

Maybe we should leave ALPA out of this and let management decide who does what flying. I can just see you cringe at that idea.

Scope was broken, if I am not mistaken, when the first CRJ came onto the scene, then the 170 had to have violated somebodys scope. My point is, if a regional goes out and gets some Air Busses, or 737's that can be operated substantially less than what a major flies them for, watch scope be, yet again, tossed aside.

I really don't fault either side of the arguement, but I do believe that there are more painful times ahead for this industry until this, and other problems, are solved.

 

[michael707767]

Scope was broken, if I am not mistaken, when the first CRJ came onto the scene, then the 170 had to have violated somebodys scope. My point is, if a regional goes out and gets some Air Busses, or 737's that can be operated substantially less than what a major flies them for, watch scope be, yet again, tossed aside.

The CRJ broke no ones scope, at least not here at Delta. Nor does the 170 violate USAir or UAL scope. I don't say our or anybodies scope is perfect. But, its what we negotiated, and we have the right to negotiate piss poor scope as well as good scope. And by the way, a regional could operate a 737 for cheaper than the mainline right now. Why isn't that happening?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Yup. Scope has a big hole in it... the 90-240 passenger aircraft.

The biggest misconception on this website is the definition of "scope". Every contract has it. Scope defines what work is to be performed and by whome.

Michael is correct. Originally scope was written simply:

"All aircraft operated by XYZ will be flown by pilots on the XYZ system seniority list".

Then came the exceptions...

Well now the exceptions outnumber the principals. There is a "hole" in scope? Come on. 40...50...70...and soon 90 seat turbojet airplanes have fallen through that "hole".

In the beginning I agreed with some of the RJDC's principals. Specifically I did not (and still do not) believe that you could restrict an airframe by NUMBER.

The market will determine how many 737s or A330s or RJs or Piper Apaches a city-pair requires.

But now the vast majority of NUMERIC restrictions on hulls have either been eliminated or set so unrealistically high that they may as well not exist.

Now RJDC appears to be focusing on size again. Well, thats where I get off the train. I have to get off here because, if I dont, I fear that in ten years i'll go out to the airport and see a Boeing 787RJ, flown by a two pilot crew (one of whom is a direct-hire from Comair Academy with in excess of 1000 hours of all-VFR experience...) between Atlanta and LaGuardia....thats "regional" right?

True this alter-ego garbage is getting out of hand. The industry has become so complex that its not even close to simple black and white anymore. Scope language from one carrier restricts the ability of a SJ provider to fly for another carrier...and airlines like Chautauqua are codesharing for a handful of carriers amd starting up alter-egos to sidestep their contractual obligations. Our profession is broken, no question about it.

Ideally the answer would be a single seniority list (you try to do that with 10,000 guys on furlough and let me know how that works out). But its unlikely to happen. Management won't buy it and even if they did the line-pilots would fight over slotting until well past their own retirement.

Unfortunately the answer today seems to be drawing a line in the sand. I wish that the line had been drawn at 50 or 70 seats and 65,000 lbs...but it wasnt. Now today's major airline pilots have to compete for their own jobs with groups who earn a fraction of what they do (whether those groups be regional pilots or Jetblew).

Everybody needs to go back to their castles, build their moat, and try like heck to protect some block-hours. Lock them away in the basement and hang on like heck. Because EVERYONE's job is in jeopardy. There is ALWAYS someone who is willing to do it for less.

Yesterday it was the introduction of the RJ...which took away the DC9, F28, Bac 1-11 flying from the majors.

Today its the Small-Jet providers taking that same RJ flying from the "legacy regionals".

Tomorrow someone new will show up... some sub-regional with copilot interns from Embry Riddle or something... but they'll be doing it cheaper than Chautauqua and Mesa -- and they'll take THAT flying away.

So lock up your flying. Hang on tight. This isn't the time to launch a coup' against another group, it's time to shore up your defenses and hang on to as much of what you have as is possible.

 

[blzr]

The CRJ broke no ones scope, at least not here at Delta. Nor does the 170 violate USAir or UAL scope. I don't say our or anybodies scope is perfect. But, its what we negotiated, and we have the right to negotiate piss poor scope as well as good scope. And by the way, a regional could operate a 737 for cheaper than the mainline right now. Why isn't that happening?

U.S. Air originally vowed not to have any non- turboprop aircraft do it's regional flying(sounds like scope to me). Then they acquiesced
and allowed 12 small jets operated by a contract carrier. After 911, that number doubled and now has more than doubled again.

As to the larger A/C issue, I think the 70 seaters will be followd by the 90 seaters and then to the 120 seaters, all to be flown by the regional that comes in with the lowest bid.

I don't think that there is anything out there that's going to stop this trend. I doubt that any scope clause, judge, or airline management will help stop it either. It will get worse before it gets better.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yup. Scope has a big hole in it...

In the beginning I agreed with some of the RJDC's principals.

Now RJDC appears to be focusing on size again.

Unfortunately the answer today seems to be drawing a line in the sand.

Everybody needs to go back to their castles, build their moat, and try like heck to protect some block-hours.

Don't give up the faith. What you see around you are symptoms of ALPA's alter ego cancer. The cancer started because of a steady diet of misrepresentation - ALPA's members at the Regionals were locked out of the process and had no say. So, the majors created a super "B" scale and sold the undesireable flying off the property all together. Now that flying is looking more appealing. This is always the problem with arbitrary restrictions.

The RJDC is not focused on size. Size is somewhat arbitrary, depending on when, what and who you speak to. When I hired in ASA had 105 seat BAE146's jets on our contract.

The RJDC is focused on representation. If it is not enough that ALPA promoted a lower class caste of pilots at the "B" scale carriers, ALPA also refuses to allow these carriers to negotiate scope with their employers. Delta said they would negotiate with ASA and Comair pilots, it was ALPA that blocked the formation of scope that would have stoped the alter ego free for all at Delta.

Slowly the Delta pilots are seeing their control over their code get away from them. They sold the code for higher wages and now the Comapny does not want to sell it back and the Delta pilots are miffed that they might have to pay something to buy back flying that they sold.

In the mean time - other ALPA members now perform that flying. These "B" class ALPA members have the same rights as the preferred members, but National refuses to play by the rules.

So the RJDC's bottom line issue is REPRESENTATION. And for our union to be effective the RJDC has to win. Otherwise you will continue to see the erosion of legacy MEC's power.

ALPA has been so harsh against its "B" class members that today, most of the jobs are going to carriers outside of ALPA's control, like Chautauqua, Skywest and Republic. The mainline MEC's think this is a good thing because it keeps the jobs away from the pesky wholly owneds that think the union owes them representation. What they mainline guys do not realize in their giddy celebration is that airlines like Republic don't have to run their contracts past ALPA National for a signature. In other words, by excluding "B" class members from seniority lists and negotiations, ALPA is in fact losing control.

~~~^~~~

Further - the mainline guys don't want to answer this question - But who negotiated, signed and ratified every one of these contracts that has encouraged alter ego flying?

The answer sure isn't the regional guys. We are not even allowed to participate in the process.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I don't say our or anybodies scope is perfect. But, its what we negotiated, and we have the right to negotiate piss poor scope as well as good scope. And by the way, a regional could operate a 737 for cheaper than the mainline right now. Why isn't that happening?

No, I'm not sure ALPA does have the right to negotiate piss poor scope in a manner that denies other ALPA members from having equal representation. ALPA has the same duty to all of its members.

What mainline MEC's should avoid is selling any flying outside the list - period. But once that flying is sold, it no longer belongs to the mainline members. Just like the 69 Camaro I sold. Jeesh, I wish I had that car back, but it now belongs to someone else.

Make no mistake about it, the E170 is the new generation 737-200 and Republic / Chautaqua is operating it on the routes that Delta Express used to fly the 737's on. Just think of the E170 as a 737 with better financing and 2/3 to 1/2 the fuel burn and you will be very close to the truth. Further, expect the E170 to be the toe hold into a fleet type.

Absent an RJDC win, I don't know that ALPA will change. The senior guys will protect their interests and at least enough of the junior guys will reach for the pot of gold, despite the continuing erosion of what we consider "mainline" flying.

The RJDC may be the only thing that stops the line from being drawn at widebodies someday.

~~~^~~~

 

[~~~^~~~]

U.S. Air originally vowed not to have any non- turboprop aircraft do it's regional flying(sounds like scope to me). Then they acquiesced
and allowed 12 small jets operated by a contract carrier. After 911, that number doubled and now has more than doubled again.

As to the larger A/C issue, I think the 70 seaters will be followd by the 90 seaters and then to the 120 seaters, all to be flown by the regional that comes in with the lowest bid.

I don't think that there is anything out there that's going to stop this trend.

Exactly - Delta is in trail spacing behind US Air for the same destination if the Company does not turn around its losses. The senior guys will be desperate to hold on to what they have and will sell enough of the junior guys on the pot of gold by selling off flying to preserve the mainline way of life.

 

[PCL_128]

What mainline MEC's should avoid is selling any flying outside the list - period. But once that flying is sold, it no longer belongs to the mainline members. Just like the 69 Camaro I sold. Jeesh, I wish I had that car back, but it now belongs to someone else.

The code wasn't sold to you, they merely let you borrow a portion of it. The DL code is still 100% controlled by DALPA. Just because they allow DCI to fly certain portions of it doesn't mean that it has been "sold."

 

[~~~^~~~]

PCL:

Here is the definition of sale.

SALE - An agreement by which one of the contracting parties, called the seller, gives a thing and passes it, in exchange for a certain price in current money, to the other party, who is called the buyer or purchaser, who, on his part, agrees to pay such price.

If it was a "lease" there would have to be provisions for the return of the flying and the scope contracts do not include any such language. The Delta MEC SOLD flying in exchange for preservation of pre-deregulation pay rates.

And it isn't the ASA, Comair, or other regional guys that bought it. We are locked out of the process. The Company bought it and they are doing with it what they want. We just happen to be the guys flying it and we have no rights what so ever ( just ask our representatives in ALPA ). Hence our fight for representation.

The exception ( and I'm glad you made me think of this ) is the US Air deal that is the subject of this thread. Republic now owns the rights to certain US Air flying. So, yes, I guess this flying has been bought by one Regional and their stated intentions are to operate E190's. And Republic is not ALPA. Further, airlines don't buy nearly 2 Billion dollars worth of new jets to perform flying that is "leased" at the whim of a mainline MEC. Someone other than me figures this flying is sold....

By the way, I scanned the image of the RJDC sticker that you modified. It is not perfectly round because my scanner chopped the edge. However, I think you are a person of generally honerable intentions and probably will come around and support the cause one of these days.... if you are pro union, it is the only way to save this profession unless ALPA does a course reversal.

 

[FDJ2]

Fins, explain how an RJDC victory would end whipsaw?



Explain how an organization, like the RJDC, that believes that no pilot group can control an airlines ability to outsource its code will reduce whipsaw and increase the value of a pilots career?

Why were your answers to questions concerning the RJDC's lawsuit so different then those provided by Surplus? Are you clueless or is it Surplus when it comes to the RJDC lawsuit?

 

[PCL_128]

However, I think you are a person of generally honerable intentions and probably will come around and support the cause one of these days.... if you are pro union, it is the only way to save this profession unless ALPA does a course reversal.

Unlikely, but I guess anything's possible. I agree with you that ALPA national has some very big problems, but I've always felt that the way to solve problems is from within the system. I just can't stand lawyers and lawsuits.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2:

Surplus and I disagree probably more than General Lee and I disagree, but we can see that the RJDC is the only place that new, constructive, ideas are coming from that would repair this mess.

First, the RJDC does not have a one size fits all scope solution. The solution will be found within ALPA, once all the parties are represented. I believe that outsourcing code is dangerous at any level and that all flying should be performed by seniority list pilots.

However, if ALPA wants to outsource code to create a better standard at one airline, while suppressing the pay and working conditions of another airline - the union must allow the pilots performing the outsourced flying equal rights of representation. That is the controlling ideology - that all pilots deserve equal representation. What pilots do with that representation is up to them. The RJDC doesn't represent pilots, ALPA does ( or is at least supposed to try ).

Pragmatically the result of equal representation would likely be:
1. Equal Representation means that the union takes directions from all of its members and fights the creation of alter ego phony baloney airline entities that exist for the sole purpose of undermining pilots' collective bargaining efforts. The legal tools are there.
2. Equal Representation would force MECs to work together to find brand scope solutions.
3. Equal Representation means that the mainline MEC's can not just completely ignore the members performing brand flying. To establish complete control, the mainline MEC would be forced to do the right thing - take all the airplanes, all the flying, and all the pilots. One list means one MEC and one center of control.

Think of it this way. You may have been to an ALPA BOD meeting. How would things be different if ALPA had Representatives appointed by the number of represented pilots, plus a Senate based on the MEC's, and an impartial Judiciary made up from a cross section of all of ALPA's membership? Do you think mutually beneficial solutions could be reached? Would the union be stronger, working together?

A close parallel to what you wrote is "no taxation without representation." If the Delta MEC insists on selling its flying back to the Company, it should not block the ALPA members performing the flying from negotiating contracts.

We at the Connection level are living a life with no scope, thanks to the Delta MEC. It is wrong and it is mutually harmful. I don't think I know the perfect scope solution, but I have faith that if we allow our Representatives to do their jobs, we can develop a better system.

So, yes, I guess Surplus and I agree. Once the Delta MEC sells its flying, it should not be able to control flying it choses not to perform itself. You still have the ability to outsource, but the remote control box comes off the RJ.

~~~^~~~

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not sure why the mainline pilots don't want to fly RJ's?

But yet they are when concessionary contracts state employment rights for furlouged mainline pilots at a regional. This is a big indicator of a problem.

DC-9 and FK100 pay rates are artificailly high, subsidized by revenue generated by widebody jets.

Could RJ payscales operated my mainline pilots be subsidized?

Many a pilot say "I don't care what I fly, just as long as the pay is fair, the work rules are reasonable and its a good company."

How about mainline scope says; we'll operate all aircraft and we'll negotiate rates/work rules that are win win.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Not sure why the mainline pilots don't want to fly RJ's?

Me either, but then again, if ASA bought J-31's, or BE1900's I would not be that excited about having them on my list either. In fact, I think ASA allows 19 seat airplanes to be flown by non seniorty list pilots.

But, if ASA had 19 seat airplane drivers, we whould not be able to block their attempts to have their own scope, with ASA, or preferably Delta since Delta has operational control of their hypothetical operation.

 

[regionaltard]

Chap 11 court can allow things over what ALPA wants.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm not sure that "what ALPA wants" is particularly relevant in today's marketplace.

In the context of this thread, the race to the bottom fueled by mainline Scope and the resultant proliferation of misbegotten alter-egos has a lot more to do with the fact that 70 and 90 seat operators are getting a lot closer to being able to compete with mainline jets on a seat-mile cost basis than bankruptcy court does.

Here's a good example of another faulty solution to a poorly understood problem that only made things infinitely worse.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I just can't stand lawyers and lawsuits.

Me either. In fact, I changed careers to get away from them. But since ALPA ignored our grievances and actually waived the grievance process ( pointing us towards the Courthouse for resolution ) we had no choice ( armed rebellion was suggested and disgarded ). The RJDC funds its litigation by the hour through the support of ALPA members like me. I'd rather have spent the money on something else, but this is the right thing to do.

 

[PCL_128]

I believe that outsourcing code is dangerous at any level and that all flying should be performed by seniority list pilots.

Ahhh, there we go. Now that's something we can both agree on. If DALPA and every other mainline MEC had that much common sense over a decade ago, then you and I wouldn't be having this many discussions about this stuff.

 

[Eyestowardskys]

I don't know why regional guys want to see these E170s and E190s at the regionals. You are shorting yourself for a paycheck later in life. Sure, you might make a couple bucks more not if those come to the regionals, but in the long run, you are shorting yourself. If those airplanes go to the "majors (or legacy.. your choice of name there)," they will start picking up people off furlough and the industry might start getting movement once again. I for one, don't want to end up flying a 737 at a regional payscale. The problem is that the senior will sacrafic everyone for their own benefit. They make a few extra dollars an hour for their last 5 years, meanwhile they being the whole industry down to a cheaper wage for bigger airplanes.

My $0.02 on that.... and just remember... opinions are like azzholes... everyone has one and yours stinks!

 

[FurloughedAgain]

~~~^~~~ said, "...You still have the ability to outsource, but the remote control box comes off the RJ."

I'll buy that.

All you have to do is define "RJ" for me.