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ALPA!!! Why don't you want JetBlue???!

Pilotbob3

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After years of everyone complaining that JB needs a union, why isn't ALPA campainging to get the vote??!! There are 2,010 pilots at JB.
 

mesaserf

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WE ARE THE BORG…RESISTANCE IS FUTILE…YOUR INDIVIDUAL UNIQUNESS WILL BE ASSIMULATED INTO OUR COLECTIVE….WE ARE THE BORG…
 

bluefin

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Why would they want ALPA, they are Fu*)ing worthless. They have ruined many lives by going against their own majority. Prater, where's the shortage?
 

linepilot

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There was an ALPA drive going on while I was still there. From what I heard there wasn't enough support.
Looks like they shifted gears.
Meanwhile, Ford&Harrison advises Jetblue how low to set the bar.
Better get it done fellas.
 

PinnacleDude

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I think ALPA would like to represent JetBlue. However, the political reality is most JetBlue folks would not vote in ALPA right now. I think ALPA is smart enough to realize that an organized JetBlue is better for all pilots, regardless of who represents them.

FWIW, organizing does not mean that your management is terrible. SWAPA and SWA have coexisted for years in a productive manner, but I am pretty sure just about every SWA pilot is glad to have the union on property.
 

WayBack

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I think ALPA would like to represent JetBlue. However, the political reality is most JetBlue folks would not vote in ALPA right now. I think ALPA is smart enough to realize that an organized JetBlue is better for all pilots, regardless of who represents them.

FWIW, organizing does not mean that your management is terrible. SWAPA and SWA have coexisted for years in a productive manner, but I am pretty sure just about every SWA pilot is glad to have the union on property.
ALPA is so desperate right now, they're soon to start representing ramp agents.
JB pilots dont want ALPA because they know that ALPA is a political hack that does nothing for the pilot group, only for the good of the Union....I mean Association.
 

Captain X

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The question should be: Why would Jetblue want ALPA?

The ALPA Media/Comm Department could help them come up with better slogans for the side of the plane?

I mean after it went through Legal Review & Approval and all.
 

PCL_128

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After years of everyone complaining that JB needs a union, why isn't ALPA campainging to get the vote??!! There are 2,010 pilots at JB.

A group of JetBlue pilots came and talked with ALPA a couple of years ago about starting an ALPA drive, but they determined that there wasn't enough support. They ended up going with the independent union idea instead. Any union is better than no union at all.
 

waterski

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PCL_128 "If you don't like living with ALPA, try living without ALPA."

You’re joking right?
 

PCL_128

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Nope.
 

linepilot

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PCL_128 "If you don't like living with ALPA, try living without ALPA."

You’re joking right?

Do you really think that the dissolution of ALPA would not be detrimental to pilot pay and benefits across the industry?

Pilots are bound and determined to shoot themselves in the foot.

So because ALPA (which is no more than a democratic collection of pilot unions) is imperfect (please name a perfect institution) you would trust your career to airline management?

If you think post 9/11 bankruptcies were bad, just wait till airline managements are given the keys to the store when pilots decide they don't need unions.

Jetblue is a perfect example. Bargain basement pay and benefits. JetBlue has set the low bar for health insurance, work rules, and retirement. They use some blended rate to confuse the pay issue and then they find ways to take away overtime pay.
The only thing keeping it all from going even lower are the unions that are turning things around.

You need to look at a little more history than just the past ten years.
 

waterski

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Do you really think that the dissolution of ALPA would not be detrimental to pilot pay and benefits across the industry?

Pilots are bound and determined to shoot themselves in the foot.

So because ALPA (which is no more than a democratic collection of pilot unions) is imperfect (please name a perfect institution) you would trust your career to airline management?

If you think post 9/11 bankruptcies were bad, just wait till airline managements are given the keys to the store when pilots decide they don't need unions.

Jetblue is a perfect example. Bargain basement pay and benefits. JetBlue has set the low bar for health insurance, work rules, and retirement. They use some blended rate to confuse the pay issue and then they find ways to take away overtime pay.
The only thing keeping it all from going even lower are the unions that are turning things around.

You need to look at a little more history than just the past ten years.

I’m not saying we don’t need a union at JetBlue. What I’m saying is I think ALPA is not the answer.
 

PinnacleDude

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Waterski - I don't think PCL128 was saying you that you had to have ALPA at JetBlue.

128 was at Pinnacle and worked hard for the pilots there. I believe his tag line might be in reference to the current state of affairs at his current Union at AirTran. Don't work there so I can't say for sure.

I agree with him 100% that in this industry, any union is better than none. I have met many a pilot that never thought they would unjustly be called before "the man" and were mighty glad to have the representation. Just one man's opinion.
 

PCL_128

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Waterski - I don't think PCL128 was saying you that you had to have ALPA at JetBlue.

Exactly. I've contributed several times to the JBPA. I just want the JetBlue pilots to have some sort of protection and collective bargaining agent.

128 was at Pinnacle and worked hard for the pilots there. I believe his tag line might be in reference to the current state of affairs at his current Union at AirTran. Don't work there so I can't say for sure.

You are correct. Our independent union is a mess, and I believe it's incapable of being fixed. We need ALPA. That's not to say anything of the JBPA, though. I support the JBPA efforts 100%, and I hope it works out great for you guys.
 

BeCareful!

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Jetblue is a perfect example. Bargain basement pay and benefits. JetBlue has set the low bar for health insurance, work rules, and retirement. They use some blended rate to confuse the pay issue and then they find ways to take away overtime pay.


Completely WRONG, linepilot. US Airways East, as represented by ALPA, set the bar far lower.

ALPA is a self-serving association that will fight to the death for only one purpose: to save itself. Witness the recent ousting at US Airways and the revolting, dishonest tactics they used (in vein) to stay in power after YEARS of piss-poor representation of US Airways pilots against a ruthless management.

They gave up the retirement without a VOTE! Now, it's discovered that the company lied about the state of the pension funding. Great move, ALPA.

For years there wasn't a concession ALPA didn't like....they gave and gave and gave, no matter what the membership wanted. They allowed a recall out of seniority. They allowed massive scope violations that we are just now discovering and trying to correct.

No, I wouldn't wish ALPA on my enemy, and since I have several friends at Jet Blue I can only hope they'll steer clear.

The unfortunate thing is that ALPA won't ever wake up, IMHO, because the structure won't allow for it. The bureaucracy is too developed, and once pilots who are inclined toward union work get in most of them loose sight of the actual responsibility they have. Management has learned to play ALPA like a piano, because they know how to stir up internal politics and create division. ALPA, because of its structure and its attempt to be all things to all pilots, is a deeply divided and inefective entity.

Good luck. I think cooperative independent unions are the future for airline pilots.
 
Last edited:

Rez O. Lewshun

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How did ALPA help the TWA pilots?


How did the TWA pilots help (or not help) themselves....


ALPA Nat'l might not have done all that it should have, (lawsuit pending) but you can't claim that college educated pilot that operate high performance jets, were mindless sheep being lead around by a cunning fox. Can you?...

Fact is, all of us don't put enough effort into policing our elected officers. We sometimes, but usually not, vote for fellow pilots to "manage" our careers.

Who cares about your career more than you?


Would you give your house and car keys to your MEC Chairman? How about your wallet and credit cards? Probably not, but for some reason we hand over full control of 10, 15, 20 years of career earnings to some guy you might not have even bothered to vote in the election for....

It seems to me that we need to keep a more watchful eye on our careers..... for if we don't then decisions are made by our MEC or National that aren't in line with our expectations....


Thoughts?
 

Fubijaakr

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Personally, I think the reality of the situation is that ALPA recognizes that there are enough disaffected souls on the B6 seniority list that it is better, in the long run, if they have an independent union.

Down the road, there is always the possibility that the inability of an independent to provide necessary services the independent union could look to merge with ALPA as FPA did.

Just my opinion, though.
 

stlflyguy

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How did the TWA pilots help (or not help) themselves....


ALPA Nat'l might not have done all that it should have, (lawsuit pending) but you can't claim that college educated pilot that operate high performance jets, were mindless sheep being lead around by a cunning fox. Can you?...

Fact is, all of us don't put enough effort into policing our elected officers. We sometimes, but usually not, vote for fellow pilots to "manage" our careers.

Who cares about your career more than you?


Would you give your house and car keys to your MEC Chairman? How about your wallet and credit cards? Probably not, but for some reason we hand over full control of 10, 15, 20 years of career earnings to some guy you might not have even bothered to vote in the election for....

It seems to me that we need to keep a more watchful eye on our careers..... for if we don't then decisions are made by our MEC or National that aren't in line with our expectations....


Thoughts?


I understand the thought process but I won't be able to ingest all the workings of the RLA, Bankruptcy code, protocol of the legal system, and pass the bar in the time needed to save my career from the onslaught of management.

Similar to other posts--when we have a medical issue, we call ALPA medical. When we have a safety issue we call someone at ALPA's safety department. When we need advice on the finances of a company, we ask ALPA's EF&A people. When we have a legal question we turn to ALPA's lawyers. In the same way that the public turns to us and assumes that we're qualified to fly the aircraft for them in the safest manner possible, we look to ALPA with the same trust.

When they f-ck up, they're liable. It's really pretty simple.

stlflyguy
 
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