ALPA Question...

[Jetsnake]

This question is really for all ALPA members
in regard's to paying dues.

Recently on a a particular web site, there
was some information posted that if you
did not pay your dues or were in arrearages
that you could be terminated for such...

I'm in good standing with ALPA, but to me this
seems a bit extreme with this being the 21st
century and all...

I would appreciate any insight as to whether
this is actual or Bull Sh!tuall...

 

[328dude]

I didnt hear that and I agree that sounds a bit extreme. However, I have heard of guys and gals not wanting to join ALPA and are considered "Dues Check off Participants". If later they decide to join ALPA they have to put the back dues up front. I have heard this happening before but not what you stated in your post.

Usually they guys that fly for a ALPA carrier and are "DCP's", they seem to complain the most. LOL

 

[Rank&File]

originally posted by 328dude
Usually they guys that fly for a ALPA carrier and are "Dues Checkoff Participants", they seem to complain the most.

I'm confused. Everyone at my company uses dues check-off to pay their ALPA dues. All this does is keeps you from having to write a check every month.

And for the second question, the answer is yes. You can be fired for having delinquent union dues. Here is a quote from our contract (paraphrased):

If any pilot covered by this Agreement becomes delinquent in the required payment of dues, the Association will immediately notify such pilot and the System Chief Pilot... and is subject to discharge as a pilot for the company.

 

[Jetsnake]

If any pilot covered by this Agreement becomes delinquent in the required payment of dues, the Association will immediately notify such pilot and the System Chief Pilot... and is subject to discharge as a pilot for the company. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but isn't this wrong. Correct me if I'm incorrect,
If you live in a right to work state, you do not have to
pay dues regardless of your affliation.

I'm sorry, but I thought J. Hoffa was dead.

Any lawyer's out there...

 

[DougCorp-9]

It is called an agency shop. You are required to pay dues in order to get the job. Companies hate it but it is a way for the unions to guarentee membership/income. You don't have to join the union but you still have to pay dues. It also prevents the cheap ass freeloaders that want the benefits of a contract but don't want to sacrifice to achieve it.

 

[Rvrrat]

Standard union stuff.

It is not only ALPA.


From the UAW contract.

2.04 All present employees who are not members of the union and all employees hired hereafter shall become and remain members in good standing of the union as a condition of employment not later that the thirtieth (30th) day following the date of execution of this agreement or at the end of the individuals probationary period.

2.06 Any employee who, within the time limits provided by this agreement, shall have failed to tender the periodic dues and initiation fees uniformly required as a condition of acquiring and retaining membership, shall be discharged by the employer within seven (7) days after receipt of written notice from the union.

The contract concerns locations in CA; a "right to work" state, so "right to work" doesn't really mean much.

 

[beezlebozo]

>If you live in a right to work state, you do not have to
>pay dues regardless of your affliation.

I'm not a lawyer, but right to work laws do not apply to pilots. We are governed by the railway labor act, a federal law, which overrides any state right to work laws. You don't get the state guaranteed level of overtime pay for being at the airport over 40 hours a week, either.

A non member is stilll governed by the union negotiated contract. The union still has to enforce the contract for the non member. Otherwise, you'd have whipsawing WITHIN YOUR OWN PILOT GROUP - you wouldn't need contract carriers. The cost of enforcement of the contract on behalf of a non member is not free.

 

[surplus1]

This is an interesting subject that is often misunderstood. I am not a lawyer, but basically, this is how it works.

1. There are two different Federal labor laws that govern unions. One comes from the Taft-Hartley Act and is adminstered by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). [This is the law that the President just used to temporarily end the labor dispute of the west coast dockworkers] This law does not apply to airlines or railroads but applies to everyone else in organized labor.

2. The other law comes from the Railway Labor Act (RLA) and is administered by the National Mediation Board (NMB). Airline pilot labor unions fall under this Federal law.

3. There is no Federal right-to-work law. Those laws are all State laws and do not exist in all States. Where there is conflict, Federal law takes precedence over State law (in general).

The RLA allows basically three types of working situations. For convenience they are called Open Shop, Closed Shop and Agency Shop.

When there is no union or when there is a union whose contract with the employer does not specify one of the other two, you have an Open Shop. In other words, employees do not have to belong to the union and do not have to pay any portion of the union''s dues.

When you have a Closed Shop, membership in the union and therefore the payment of full dues, is required as a condition of employment. If the employee refuses to join the union within a specified period of time and pay dues, the employer is required (by the union's contract) to terminate the employment. To the best of my knowledge only one union representing airline pilots has a Closed Shop. That is the IPA which represents UPS pilots.

The last is the Agency Shop. Some ALPA contracts do NOT contain an Agency Shop provision. Most do. Several Teamster contracts include Agency Shop and so do independents like the APA.

Under Agency Shop, the employee is NOT required to join the union. However, he/she IS required to pay what is known as a "contract maintainence fee". That is an amount less that regular union dues that is supposed to represent the equivalent portion of a member's dues that the union uses exclusively to negotiate and maintain the contract. While it is not madatory, most Agency Shop contracts contain a provision that requires the employer to terminate the employee that refuses to pay his "agency shop fees". It actually happens very rarely in practice as unions are careful about this and most employees pay up at the last minute when challenged.

The amount of Agency Shop fees is determined by the union each year [the law requires this] and the union bills the employee. The bill includes an accounting of the union's use of funds for "representation" and must exclude the sums used for other purposes.

There have been many lawsuits challenging the union's accounting, i.e., calculation of Agency Shop fees. Most have been unsuccessful. However, a significant group of Delta pilots recently won a lawsuit against ALPA at the US Supreme Court level. The litigation is Miller vs ALPA, for those who wish to research it. The Delta pilots were supported in this litigation by an organization in the DC area that more or less specializes in the Anti Agency Shop movement and has funded many lawsuits of this type.

Again, I am not an attorney so don't take what I say as legal advice. This is just my understanding of how the law works.

As far as I know, both Taft-Hartley and the RLA deal with this question in pretty much the same way.

Hope this helps some.