ALPA on Emirates and Etihad

[8sugarsugar]

Training bond? That alone speaks volumes.

Training bond 36,000 prorated 1,000 per month for 36 months.

First year minimum guarantee pay at EK, $95,000. You quit after one year with 24 months left of bond, 95,000-24,000=71,000.

First year minimum guarantee pay at Delta $51,000. You quit after one year with no bond, $51,000-0 = $51,000.

At least Emirates isn't a pay for training group like Delta.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Does the US Gov't know about that?? :0 Anyway, another thing I would like to ask is how many marriages have been disrupted by the Sandpit move? What happens if you bring your wife and kids over and they hate it? Just a question. I know there are expat areas that try to keep people together, but I have heard interesting stories, and some bad ones. What if the wife wants to stay closer to family in the States?



Bye Bye---General Lee

All foreign bank accounts in excess of $10,000 are reported to the IRS. So, yes Obama knows about our pensions and it will be taxed if you bring it home. Just like your 401k is taxed when you withdraw it.

 

[General Lee]

Training bond 36,000 prorated 1,000 per month for 36 months.

First year minimum guarantee pay at EK, $95,000. You quit after one year, 95,000-24,000=71,000.

First year minimum guarantee pay at Delta $51,000. You quit after one year, $51,000-0 = $51,000.

At least Emirates isn't a pay for training group like Delta.

Say what? You think DL is a pay for training group? You must lay out in the sun all day long on your one day off a week there in DXB. Your brain has melted. Just look at PPrune and notice how many people try EK and then bail after a couple of years. Not good. And let's not get started on the other two big ones in the region. Yikes.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[8sugarsugar]

Say what? You think DL is a pay for training group? You must lay out in the sun all day long on your one day off a week there in DXB. Your brain has melted. Just look at PPrune and notice how many people try EK and then bail after a couple of years. Not good. And let's not get started on the other two big ones in the region. Yikes.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why is Delta first year pay so much lower than second year pay? Doesn't that money go towards training?

Emirates attrition rate is 1% year. Out of 3500 pilots, bottom guys moves up about 40 spots a year.

PPRUNE not a good authority, its the same General lee types of the British and Aussie version

I have on average 17 nights a month with my family.

 

[General Lee]

Why is Delta first year pay so much lower than second year pay? Doesn't that money go towards training?

Emirates attrition rate is 1% year. Out of 3500 pilots, bottom guys moves up about 40 spots a year.

PPRUNE not a good authority, its the same General lee types of the British and Aussie version

I have on average 17 nights a month with my family.

WHAT???? I have NEVER heard that before. It's called a year of PROBATION. But, as of 2015 in our latest contract, first year pay will be $71 an hour, and that is almost twice as high as other legacies and LCCs.

As far as movement at a legacy, thanks to the numerous number of different aircraft, that pay differently, when the top guy retires, about 11 people move up (from retiring 744 Capt to A330 Capt that replaces him, then the 767 Capt replaces the 330 Capt, then the 737 Capt replaces the 767 Capt, all the way down to a newhire). In a few years there will be up to 800 pilots leaving per year due to age 65 (not all will make it that long), and that means HUGE movement UPWARD. It's great that your smallest plane is an A330, but as people on PPRUNE continue to say, that plane has terrible schedules, with India night turns, intra Gulf night turns, etc. As those planes go away, the 777s will gather more of those awful trips, and from what I hear you might not always get what you want bidding wise. Not the case here, it's called seniority.

So, keep trying to equate the two, you just can't. As the EK 777 Capt said to me in DUS on the layover when I asked him about EK and he thought I was looking for a job move, "Wait, you work for a US legacy, stay there, you won't regret it. You get to see the World with EK, but there is a lot of stress, and the Sandpit is wearing on me and my family." He had actually resigned from Delta after 9-11 and joined EK, and pretty much said he regrets it now. But, some people like Varmit might love it, which is good for him, but it clearly isn't for everyone.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Dornier 335]

grass is always greener ...

As the EK 777 Capt said to me in DUS on the layover when I asked him about EK and he thought I was looking for a job move, "Wait, you work for a US legacy, stay there, you won't regret it. You get to see the World with EK, but there is a lot of stress, and the Sandpit is wearing on me and my family." He had actually resigned from Delta after 9-11 and joined EK, and pretty much said he regrets it now. But, some people like Varmit might love it, which is good for him, but it clearly isn't for everyone.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I talked to two ex-EK drivers when I took a contract job over in Europe. Both had been there for three years and came back after their bond was up. One summarized it pretty well: "I have flown across the world in a 777 and haven't seen anything of it. The first year was awesome, the second ok, the third just a drag". He described his job as being constantly fatigued and was happy to sit left seat in a Q400 for approximately the same ₤₤₤. That was back in 09, I imagine things have improved a little.

 

[8sugarsugar]

Explain to me why you pay someone substantially less during probation? Sounds like recovering training costs to me.

I'm glad the new contract does away with pay for your own training.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Explain to me why you pay someone substantially less during probation? Sounds like recovering training costs to me.

If a guy decides he doesn't like the job on day 2, he can walk away and he owes nothing. He's not richer or poorer.

If a guy decides he doesn't like an airline on day 2 but he's signed a training bond, he forks out x number of dollars to buy his way out of an indentured servitude. Or he continues living a miserable existence until his indentured servitude is paid off. Just like in colonial times.

 

[8sugarsugar]

to be fair, the bond at Emirates doesn't start until you finish training and can be canceled if you're fired during your 6 month probation.

option two, just leave and never ever land back in the UAE, ever

 

[Noserider76]

If US airlines were "state sponsored", and didn't have to deal with pesky labor laws, have unions outlawed, could fire anyone they didn't like, got fuel at government subsidized rate, low landing fees at the home hub,..............I'm sure the US airlines could "step up its game".

The fact is, at the end of the day you work for a quasi government entity in a foreign land where they hate US citizens.

For me, I'm a proud American who believes in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I'll keep my family right here in the best country in the world.

Exactly. There needs to be serious pushback on any routes they try and fly that don't originate in the UAE, unless of course, our government wants to buy fleets of aircraft and provide the same benefits for US carriers that the UAE gives Emirates.