ALPA dues going up.

[Turtle21]

Are they going to apply the 1.9% to the company's contribution to our 401Ks?

What a missed opportunity!

 

[PCL_128]

Nobody asked for my vote on this matter.

I'm pretty sure that you elected your representatives who had votes on this matter. Or are you also upset that you don't get to directly vote on every issue that comes before Congress?

Or on the fact that the ALPA president got a 21% raise, while the average line pilot takes pay cuts.

Wrong. The ALPA President has received no pay raises in many, many years. In fact, the BOD just voted to give him a pay cut from 100 hours to 95 hours. Don't believe everything you hear in the crew lounge.

Time for a Regional Union, that doesn't represent both sides of the fence.

Sounds great. Then you can see how high dues really can go, since a regional union would need to dues its members around 4-5% to fund itself sufficiently.

 

[PCL_128]

What a missed opportunity!

Seriously? A uSAPian mocking ALPA's dues structure when you're currently paying something like 5 different assessments as uSAPa hemorrhages money? Too funny!

 

[Jim]

What a missed opportunity!

ALPA could collect 25% of my pay in dues and I'd still make more than any Eastie. But hey, you're only doing it to yourselves with your lack of integrity and delusions.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I'm pretty sure that you elected your representatives who had votes on this matter. Or are you also upset that you don't get to directly vote on every issue that comes before Congress?



Wrong. The ALPA President has received no pay raises in many, many years. In fact, the BOD just voted to give him a pay cut from 100 hours to 95 hours. Don't believe everything you hear in the crew lounge.



Sounds great. Then you can see how high dues really can go, since a regional union would need to dues its members around 4-5% to fund itself sufficiently.

I would rather give 5% to a union that represents one carrier's interests than 1.9% to a national union with conflicting interests.

 

[PCL_128]

I would rather give 5% to a union that represents one carrier's interests than 1.9% to a national union with conflicting interests.

In other words, 5% to a union that has absolutely zero chance of being effective, rather than 1.9% to a union that has proven itself effective for 80 years. Yeah, smart move.

 

[Plainsman]

ALPA doesn't matter at the regional level anyway. There is too much undercutting. What Delta is doing to Pinnacle is proof of that. Running them into BK to lower the price levels. Sure, ALPA can scream but no more bite.

 

[jonjuan]

Wrong. The ALPA President has received no pay raises in many, many years. In fact, the BOD just voted to give him a pay cut from 100 hours to 95 hours.

Holy hell, 95 hours? Wtfff? How about 75 hours? And why isn't he paid on the average aircraft rate while he pads his resume?

 

[PCL_128]

Holy hell, 95 hours? Wtfff? How about 75 hours? And why isn't he paid on the average aircraft rate while he pads his resume?

That sounds like a great idea if the only people you want to attract to the position are first year regional FOs.

If you want the best and brightest in these positions, then you have to pay them something a bit better than they could make flying the line, because they're working at least double as much as they are on the line. Cutting someone's pay for the "privilege" of being a national officer is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[EL10]

Sorry PCL_128, but this sounds a lot like the Romney tax plan. “Lower” the rates for everyone but devil in the details. The big guys that got the robust retirement plans pay less rate and less dues, the little (with all do respect) guys get a lower rate but more income is dues eligible tax and pay more dues. Just admit any of the carriers that have only a 401K that require the pilot to voluntary contribute to get any match from the company will either end up paying more dues or take a hit on retirement so that everyone else can pay less?

Not to be stereotype but what is the effect over ones retirement account by not placing $5.00 in your retirement account over 30 plus years end up costing these people? We have such a lopsided profession that 5 or 10 dollars does make a difference to a first officer of our union. Let alone is embarrassing and insulting that our union leaders pass it off as good thing and (its only 5 or 10 dollars). ALPA again choosing to pick sides and not unite all its members like a true association.

 

[PCL_128]

EL10, the problem with your argument is that this only levels the playing field. For years, the "little guys" have been paying dues on less than their gross income, while the "big guys" have been paying it on all of their income. This change only brings everyone into the same set of rules. Does it mean that everyone who only has a 401k plan will pay a tiny bit more in dues? Yes, it does. No doubt about it. But do we want to have two sets of rules, or one set of rules that applies to all members? That was the question here.

Look, I was opposed to any change to this policy. I thought it should stay as it was, and the "big guys" should have just sucked it up and lived with the fact that those with only 401k plans weren't paying exactly the same effective rate as they were. But that wasn't going to happen. The overwhelming majority of ALPA members already pay dues based on 100% of their income, and their reps were tired of it, so it was going to change. The compromise solution of lowering the dues rate to mitigate the change, while also delaying the implementation, was a better solution to the original proposal, so I give credit to the people who worked out the compromise. Would I have been happier if it had stayed the way it was? Of course. But that just wasn't in the cards.

 

[EL10]

This does not affect me directly, just want all of our bothers and sisters treated the same and applaud those that fought for that. I still disagree with the statement this levels the playing field. Before and after everyone gets hit with the same rate. We just changed the definition of gross income now. It was a “windfall” before and now it’s an increase on those with only 401K plans. The playing field was not and is still not level. When some are required to “voluntary” contribute to get any company retirement match a disparity exists. The only true way to be “fair” and all on the same terms is having all retirement contributions company included for everyone be used as the measuring stick for income and then reduce everyone’s dues “rate” down to keep the same revenue. It’s ALPA that negotiates for all retirement plans, be it A B C or 401k plan.

I understand it’s tough to get a plan that works for everyone when we all have different CBAs. Just be honest with the membership, call a spade a spade. Don’t as an association hide behind the teaser of “rates going down”. If we want to be miss lead or disenfranchised our managements are just fine at filling those rolls, we don’t need it from our union.

 

[PCL_128]

EL10, I agree with your analysis, which is why I always opposed this change. Unfortunately, the reps from the carriers who were always paying on their gross income didn't see it that way. The compromise was better than their original proposal, but I agree that it's still far from the fairest way of handling things.

 

[jonjuan]

That sounds like a great idea if the only people you want to attract to the position are first year regional FOs.

If you want the best and brightest in these positions, then you have to pay them something a bit better than they could make flying the line, because they're working at least double as much as they are on the line. Cutting someone's pay for the "privilege" of being a national officer is absolutely ridiculous.

Curious, why does it pay more than the President of the US? Why don't any ALPA presidents return to the line? You could tell them they will get paid 1/2 of their current rate and not one person would pass. Why? Because the real $$$ comes from jobs after office and they know it.

 

[PCL_128]

Curious, why does it pay more than the President of the US?

It doesn't.

Why don't any ALPA presidents return to the line?

Again, you're wrong. Captain Prater went back to flying the line at CAL. He's currently a 777 Captain.

You could tell them they will get paid 1/2 of their current rate and not one person would pass. Why? Because the real $$$ comes from jobs after office and they know it.

Where were all these high dollar jobs that you reference when Captain Prater left office? Nowhere to be found. Captain Babbitt started up his own consulting company and did quite well for himself, but he's more the exception than the rule. Go back through the ALPA presidents, and you aren't going to find a bunch of millionaires.

 

[Brasilia Pup]

If you want the best and brightest in these positions, then you have to pay them something a bit better than they could make flying the line, because they're working at least double as much as they are on the line.

This is the same B.S. that companies use to justify the absurd salaries of many CEO's who run their businesses into bankruptcy and die. Sorry, your argument holds no water.

I also wonder why ALPA always has these conferences/"retreats" in locations like Las Vegas, Orlando, etc...and in 5 star hotels. Oh, I forgot, because I am paying for their hotels with my dues!

In the e-mail from ALPA, it reads "Starting January 1, 2014, the dues rate for active members will be 1.90 percent—a reduction of .05 percent. This was made possible due to the initiatives the Association has implemented to work smarter, save money, and be more fiscally responsible with our dues income." If that's the case, they don't need to tax my 401K income!!!!

 

[imacdog]

In other words, 5% to a union that has absolutely zero chance of being effective, rather than 1.9% to a union that has proven itself effective for 80 years. Yeah, smart move.

I'd say SWAPA and IPA are doing a fairly reasonable job at representing their pilots, wouldn't you agree?

 

[PCL_128]

This is the same B.S. that companies use to justify the absurd salaries of many CEO's who run their businesses into bankruptcy and die. Sorry, your argument holds no water.

Actually, it's your argument holding no water, because your analogy is meaningless. The average CEO is now making something on the order of 600 times what his average employee is making. By contrast, the ALPA President makes only a 26% override over what he would be making as a rank and file line pilot. The other national officers don't even get that.

I also wonder why ALPA always has these conferences/"retreats" in locations like Las Vegas, Orlando, etc...and in 5 star hotels. Oh, I forgot, because I am paying for their hotels with my dues!

Actually, the meetings are held in those locations because they are the cheapest and save your dues money. We could go to places like Chicago, New York, or Dallas, but they'll charge us far more. Locations like Vegas and South Florida are set up to handle large conventions like ours more regularly, and because of that, they charge less. We get extreme discounts in these locations.

 

[PCL_128]

I'd say SWAPA and IPA are doing a fairly reasonable job at representing their pilots, wouldn't you agree?

No, I wouldn't, in fact. SWAPA is as useless as tits on a bull. They get what management gives them, and they wouldn't know how to fight for something if they had to. And everyone is about to find that out the hard way as Section 6 negotiations kick into high gear. You wait and see.

As far as the IPA, they certainly haven't been the disaster that independent unions like the APA, USAPA, and NPA have been, but that's largely because they've been smart enough to know their own weaknesses. The IPA hires ALPA attorneys and advisors during their contract negotiations. That great contract that they have right now? It was negotiated with the help of one of ALPA's most senior professional negotiators. Without ALPA assistance, I doubt the IPA would be any further along than the APA.

 

[flyboyike]

Furthermore, the BOD at this meeting voted to cut the president's pay down to 95 hours effective January 2015. And if that's not enough for you, the BOD also voted to screw him over even more by refusing to allow him the profit sharing payments that other Delta pilots receive. Doesn't exactly sound like a great deal to me.

If he has it so bad, I'm sure he can always resign.