All hat and no horn Handschuch

GlorifiedCabbie

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RH sent out another email about how management supports the pilots. Management wants to work directly with the pilots to rebuilt that trust and work directly with the pilots and they claim the pilots will not be taken for granted . "A difficult assignment is a testament to our crews and not a demand by the OCC." The only problem is when those promises are thrown out because of the customer's (OCC) demands. We are a service industry, so to stay in business, do we have to "bend" the rules? If we have to "bend" the rules, that means there is something wrong with our business model. The OCC is ramping up the optimizer to work the crews 16 hour per day. How is that in compliance with the FAR's?
 

cougar12

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2N infamous quote “That’s a gray area, the law (regulations) have gray areas and that’s what the courts are for. Trust me when I say just wait for those phone calls from OCC or the FODOM they will make you feel if you don’t conform your job is in jeopardy. I can hear it now “Are You refusing the trip?, I’ll connect you with the FODOM or the Chief Pilot”.
 

MOMOMOJO

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The mere fact they have to rebuild indicates their own admission they've broken something.

This place never would have unionized in the first place if they had dealt properly at any point.

Management utterly refused to respect the will of over 50% of their pilots by negotiating in good faith or dealing with the Union they elected.

What in the world would make you think they will respect your will, desires, opinions or needs when it is just little old you at the table? Delusions abound.

The unfortunate reality is this management group will never respect the pilots bit at least with a strong Union we have some recourse.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Options was a good place to work 20 years ago. Where did things go wrong? It certainly wasn't the pilots fault. Rolling duty days with 3am wake up calls got old real quick. The "blame the pilot first" attitude had to go. The pilots were the ones that saved this place and 2N really doesn't care. He is good at putting on a show and giving out awards-even to himself, but then neglects the 80% backbone of his company. Now we get these emails from RH "blaming the pilots who gather at the FBO" planning how they screw other pilots because they write up a broken airplane? Sorry RH, but planes break. Just because you don't have enough crews to cover for broken planes, you want me to risk my license? No thanks.
 

Lumpsum

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The mere fact they have to rebuild indicates their own admission they've broken something.

This place never would have unionized in the first place if they had dealt properly at any point.

Management utterly refused to respect the will of over 50% of their pilots by negotiating in good faith or dealing with the Union they elected.

What in the world would make you think they will respect your will, desires, opinions or needs when it is just little old you at the table? Delusions abound.

The unfortunate reality is this management group will never respect the pilots bit at least with a strong Union we have some recourse.
The Teamsters have never been strong here at Flight Options or with Flexjet. There isn't any solidarity. There never has been. If the Teamsters happen to squeak out a win in this election there will still not be any solidarity to speak of.
If the Teamsters lose and things work well with the entire company (meaning the pilots & management) then what is there to complain about? Pilot salaries go up, sales go up, the aircraft inventory goes up. I hear that if things go down for us we would have the opportunity to vote in representation again. Maybe then we would have better leadership and better solidarity.
 

EnFuego

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The Teamsters have never been strong here at Flight Options or with Flexjet. There isn't any solidarity. There never has been. If the Teamsters happen to squeak out a win in this election there will still not be any solidarity to speak of.
If the Teamsters lose and things work well with the entire company (meaning the pilots & management) then what is there to complain about? Pilot salaries go up, sales go up, the aircraft inventory goes up. I hear that if things go down for us we would have the opportunity to vote in representation again. Maybe then we would have better leadership and better solidarity.
Have you never read his book? Only 25-30% do well. The rest of the pilots are treated as either transients or "trapped". Either way, according to the book, 75-80% of the pilots are going to be paid below industry standard. So voting out the Union is career suicide. Also, the market today dictates that we will get a substantial pay raise. Why would you throw away the work rules we have in favor of rolling rest and 16 hour days?
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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Have you never read his book? Only 25-30% do well. The rest of the pilots are treated as either transients or "trapped". Either way, according to the book, 75-80% of the pilots are going to be paid below industry standard. So voting out the Union is career suicide. Also, the market today dictates that we will get a substantial pay raise. Why would you throw away the work rules we have in favor of rolling rest and 16 hour days?
Remember the quote from RH where we vote out the teamsters and get our raise? We immediately get that 1.5% raise from not paying dues. What does 1.5% mean when you are 30% underpaid?
 

MOMOMOJO

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Have you never read his book? Only 25-30% do well. The rest of the pilots are treated as either transients or "trapped". Either way, according to the book, 75-80% of the pilots are going to be paid below industry standard. So voting out the Union is career suicide. Also, the market today dictates that we will get a substantial pay raise. Why would you throw away the work rules we have in favor of rolling rest and 16 hour days?
Because Lumpsum is working out a personal vendetta.

Logic and reason don't matter. Proof won't either.

Some people can learn by observation, study and discernment. Others have to feel pain to get the lesson. A small minority never learn.

I don't think in the case of someone like Lumpsum it matters. They are so twisted up in their own personal drama and hatred it's no longer about learning or even surviving. It's just an all out scorched earth policy to ease their feelings of inadequacy.

I'm not even being snarky or smug. It's sad. Just trying to give an explanation so others can verify these tendencies through the lense of their own intelligence and make a judgement call on who deserves their mental energy.
 

shanes123

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amazing the stupid people here...This isn't about money. its about QOL and job protection. which we will have zero. 2NN thinks of nothing of firing someone on a whim. He threatened a cabin servers job cause she told him to put his seatbelt on she was a flex server as well. he fired 5 guys for organizing a union then lost a several million dollar lawsuit. he fired 3 flex guys for posting on yammer which the union got their jobs back. think that woulda happened with no union????? But hey that won't happen to you!!!
And I haven't even mentioned the constant threats. "Are you refusing the trip"? ask any flops guy about those days. Thats the CULTure he talks about..only reason he has kept any pilots was good timing on his part. up until 3-4 years ago not a lot of jobs to pick from but the tide is turning again and this won't last forever the smart ones will get out now.
 

GlorifiedCabbie

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The Red Label pilots have a little clause in their manual that says they MAY be required to work on their "days off", sometimes on short notice. What QOL will that leave you with? NO thanks!
 

MOMOMOJO

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The Red Label pilots have a little clause in their manual that says they MAY be required to work on their "days off", sometimes on short notice. What QOL will that leave you with? NO thanks!
If Red Label Pilots are paying attention, and I think they are, they will realize they have the most to lose from decertification.

If you're a Red Label pilot and you doubt the veracity of the above statement I suggest you look at what you have now in writing in an enforceable contract versus what could be taken away from you day after the union is decertified.

Let's face facts management is not going to give anything more to a Red Label pilot. So to me securing what they have is a no-brainer considering it could be taken away in a heartbeat.

The ones who really should question if they could benefit from decertification are regular line pilots. The ones who deserve a raise and seat. But to vote for decertification means they would have to ignore the past four years of management rule and Mr. Ricci's own words to realize there is no more room at the top for the specially anointed.

Let me ask you a question. If PD, who is still sitting right seat and paid significantly lower than those who surround him on the seniority list, hasn't been rewarded with the promises they're giving to you, why should you expect it for yourself? Remember PD has been carting heavy water for management in this decert drive. Don't go blaming it on the union - management has had plenty of opportunities to go around the rules like they have for dozens of other pilots. They don't reward him because they don't have to; he's willing to do their dirty work for free because of a personal vendetta.

Without a contract, what makes you think you have any leverage to claim what you're worth? To get what was promised? To get what you deserve as a professional?

I've said it before. Mr. Ricci is not the problem. This decertification drive is not a vote against him or his rights as an entrepreneur.

This vote is about your professionalism and our industry. This vote is about the past 20 years of history. This vote is about fairness and stability.

VOTE IBT-1108!
 
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