All Alpa Members; Recall John Prater From Office

[Jonny Sacko]

Here is a copy of a quick and simple form to send. Just put your name and ALPA # on it. Send it to ANY and ALL ALPA Representatives. It's the least we can do to allow him to feel the majority's disdain.




DATE

ALPA Representative,

Hello,

John Prater continues to disregard the majority’s wishes, he needs to be removed from office. ALPA majority MUST be represented. The actions of John Prater are exactly opposite. He has pushed this age 65 business for the minority cause. Please Recall John Prater.



Thanks for your help in correcting these trying times.



Name & ALPA #




To find your ALPA rep,
Log on to ALPA. http://crewroom.alpa.org/
Click on "MY ALPA"
Click on "Representatives"

 

[BoilerUP]

Uh, don't recall motions of National officers have to come from the LEC level first?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Those steps of logging on will put you on your LEC reps.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Good luck Jonny.... who will be the replacement... at least you got some ideas.....right?



































right?

 

[BoilerUP]

Good luck Jonny.... who will be the replacement... at least you got some ideas.....right?

Aaron Hagan at FedEx.

Too bad Albie's too damn smart to run for National office...

Tony Cutler at FDX would be my second choice.

Then again, I don't have a vote...

 

[Doug Parker]

Both AWA LC's have passed a Recall Resolution for John Prater............


.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Both AWA LC's have passed a Recall Resolution for John Prater............


.

Under what reasoning... he followed the direction of the EB? IOW if Prater is to be recalled then the same logic says the EB needs to be recalled. Got replacements for them?

Aaron Hagan at FedEx.


Tony Cutler at FDX would be my second choice.



Will Aaron quit EC? Aaron is a good guy but his ALPA experience is nil. Did he get elected?

Don't know Tony. What is his ALPA expereince?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Nice idea but...letters, phone calls, E-mails, cornering your LEC reps in the crew room and spouting your opinion are good for blowing off steam, but do absolutely nothing to get Prater recalled.

Why? Because the way it works is that membership participation is required and the only way to do this is through a resolution at your next LEC meeting. You know, where you introduce the resolution with the "Whereas....Whereas....Whereas...Be it Further Resolved...." blah, blah, blah, paragraphs.

then the membership gets to vote on it. IF the membership votes in agreement with you...then it goes to the MEC level...if the MEC votes with you...then it goes to the EB level at National...and they vote on it ( whew !!!)

Good luck

I find this whole idea laughable. Lets see...you wouldn't get organized while the entire age 60 debate was taking place ( witness a 390-0 vote in the House), but now you'll pull out all the stops to get the ALPA President recalled.

You guys are too funny.

 

[eaglefly]

Poor Johnny's sack is sure hurting. Apparently Congress tried to avoid irritating it when they were ramming him in the outflow valve, but got too carried away.

Perhaps he'll get a soothing reach-around in the future ?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hey Recall Retards.... its like studying the night before finals.... it doesn't work!!! Toothpaste out of the tube, etc... can't get it back in...

This is what I've been talking about for years... you've got to particapte during the boring mundane times... but you don't and now you want a revolution and its all someone elses fault....

grow up - get real....

 

[pylut]

remain calm.....all is well

ALL IS WELL.....REMAIN CALM

 

[BoilerUP]

Will Aaron quit EC? Aaron is a good guy but his ALPA experience is nil. Did he get elected?

Yes, he did get elected, and no I doubt he'd quit EC. IMO, his "nil" ALPA experience is all the more reason for him to be in a position of influence at National. Well, that and his integrity - I actually think he'd follow the will of the majority of the membership, unlike the current folks in Herndon.

But like I said, I believe he's too smart to do that...

Don't know Tony. What is his ALPA expereince?

Do a search for TonyC...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, he did get elected, and no I doubt he'd quit EC. IMO, his "nil" ALPA experience is all the more reason for him to be in a position of influence at National. Well, that and his integrity - I actually think he'd follow the will of the majority of the membership, unlike the current folks in Herndon.

But like I said, I believe he's too smart to do that...

Do a search for TonyC...

How can Hagen be of influence at national if no one knows him?

Has Hagen testified before congress? Met with congressmen? the FAA Admin? The DOT sec?

Sorry going from line pilot to ALPA National President is unworkable... I am sure Albie has great presentation skills from his EC work... but it takes more that a winning smile and handshake...

This is K street politics baby!!

Hagen, having taken the first step, is about 10 steps too early....

 

[luckytohaveajob]

John Prater,

“ALPA has worked very hard to ensure that its Executive Board’s recommendations, intended to protect the piloting profession in the face of a change that was certain to come, were included in any age-change legislation.
“I am pleased to report to our members that this legislation reflects the direction of ALPA leadership. ALPA has been working closely with both the Senate and the House to ensure that the legislation moves to the White House as rapidly as possible. We urge President Bush to sign the bill swiftly.”




These events have nothing to do with the membership of ALPA.


Rez is a mouth piece for the leadership of ALPA.

ALPA must be held responsible for the atrocities of the majority of its members.










​

 

[Mr.B]

How can Hagen be of influence at national if no one knows him?

Has Hagen testified before congress? Met with congressmen? the FAA Admin? The DOT sec?

Sorry going from line pilot to ALPA National President is unworkable... I am sure Albie has great presentation skills from his EC work... but it takes more that a winning smile and handshake...

This is K street politics baby!!

Hagen, having taken the first step, is about 10 steps too early....

Correct. K Street politics is right. In fact I witnessed first hand how to take an issue (age 60) and SPIN the polling so as to achieve your desired and results.

Take your nose out, wipe of the brown stuff, and realize the AVERAGE line pilot just took a knife to their back from the one entity thats PAID to protect the interests of the MAJORITY.

(That is if your not too busy playing cut and paste from your sticky pages of Flying the Line.)

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

These events have nothing to do with the membership of ALPA.​

​

You're right... cause the membership didn't bother to particapte...

Rez is a mouth piece for the leadership of ALPA.

​

Maybe... maybe not... my intent is not to side on age 60 or 65. My intent is to hold a mirror.... many don't like what they see. Apathy, ingorance, disdain, paranoia, uneducated, ineffective, nondemocratic. Sorry but that's union membership. Not unlike the average American. We can't work the issues they way the membership wants until the membership becomes effective.

The membership can.

1. do nothing and get mad at the results. and do more of nothing. (status quo)

2. Do nothing. Get mad. Do something about it. Effective positve change. (reactive)

3. Get involved. Contribute, understand, effect positive change. (proactive)

Those in camp #1 talk of change..but it is someone else who must change, despite the fact that they refuse to let the leadership know what the changes are. Unfortunatley this is where 60-80% of the members are.

ALPA must be held responsible for the atrocities of the majority of its members.

​

HA HA. That is funny.... you're a real stand up commedian.... you're a funny guy... you make me laugh.... who are you going to get to make ALPA responsible? maybe some of these guys can help...you know the....Apathy, ingorance, disdain, paranoia, uneducated, ineffective, nondemocratic. Sorry but thats union membership. Not unlike the average American.




lucktohaveajob.... you are nothing but an angry pissed off guy. You refuse to be objective. You refuse to grow, mature, understand, have empathy, acceptence. You just want to be pissed off. Anger doesn't move the career forward and no one wants to work with angry people. You are a distraction. A hinderence. Regressive. We cannot even begin to work the issues until guys like you can control yourselves...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Correct. K Street politics is right. In fact I witnessed first hand how to take an issue (age 60) and SPIN the polling so as to achieve your desired and results.)

Please post a copy of the resolution that you brought forth to your LEC in support of your position on Age 60.

 

[Mr.B]

Please post a copy of the resolution that you brought forth to your LEC in support of your position on Age 60.

I did not floor a resolution. Others did, I did not oppose, and thats all you need to know.

Typical response. "You have no right to bitch unless you have floored a resolution". Well I got news for you idiot, all you need to know is we were polled twice, the message was clear as do the direction the MAJORITY of the pilots wanted, and it was IGNORED.

 

[PCL_128]

Uh, don't recall motions of National officers have to come from the LEC level first?

The Bylaws allow for two possible ways to recall a national officer:

1. A majority vote of the Board of Directors (composed of all the status reps in the Association).

2. A majority vote of the rank-and-file membership, provided that 25% of the members petition for the recall vote first. In other words, 25% of the membership (roughly 13,000 members) would have to sign a recall vote petition to submit to the Association, and then a vote would take place. This is virtually impossible.


Option 1 is the best bet, and you have to start that process with your status reps. You can simply talk to them and convince them to bring a recall motion to the Board, or you can bring your own resolution to your next Local Council meeting that expresses the membership's desire for a recall.

 

[PCL_128]

Aaron Hagan at FedEx.

Too bad Albie's too damn smart to run for National office...

Tony Cutler at FDX would be my second choice.


Then again, I don't have a vote...

They don't have the experience. Experience is a huge prerequisite for this position, or any national officer position. We just put in a dimwit with extremely limited experience (Prater), so don't make the same mistake again.

I recommend Captain Paul Rice, but I doubt he'd be willing to take the reigns under such divisive circumstances and would probably oppose a recall. Captain Lee Moak would be an acceptable choice, but his experience is still somewhat limited, and I don't think he'd want to take the job. There are other options also, but this is all academic anyway, because I don't believe for a second that the membership has the gumption to actually do anything. If they didn't stand up to vote in a simple Age-60 poll, then they won't stand up to get rid of Prater.

And I'm going to keep saying it over and over again: none of this would have happened if Duane Woerth had been reelected.

 

[PCL_128]

Please post a copy of the resolution that you brought forth to your LEC in support of your position on Age 60.

Would you like to see the resolution that I brought to the PCL MEC? You can claim that the rest of these guys didn't do their part to influence policy, but you know that you can't say the same about me. I brought the resolution, I talked to members of the EC, I talked to ALPA's senior lobbyist, I even talked to Prater himself as far back as February about this issue. I think I've earned the right to criticize Prater about how he's handled this mess.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

With regard to the age 60 issue, Prater is not the problem. The ALPA Board of Directors voted to support age 60 legislation last spring, and Prater is acting according to the results of the vote. If you aren't happy with the results of that vote, begin by expressing your frustration to your LEC and MEC officers. They represented you in that Board of Directors meeting.

 

[PCL_128]

You are incorrect, sir. The BOD never voted on this issue. Prater circumvented them by dealing only with the Executive Council and Executive Board. The status reps that compose the BOD never had a vote in this disaster.

 

[Walter Sobchak]

Maybe I am incorrect, as I was not physically present at the meeting. I do remember being on a lengthy conference call with my MEC chairman and the other reps who attended the meeting, and I was fairly certain that this was one of the issues they needed my input on prior to a vote. We discussed some other things too, so maybe I'm remembering it wrong. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[PCL_128]

Your MEC Chairman did need input, because he is a member of the Executive Board which did have a vote in this. The EB is composed of the MEC Chairmen of all ALPA carriers. The vote on the EB was 80/20 in favor of the change to policy. The EB is very different from the BOD, however, as the BOD is composed of all the status reps, which are your direct representatives. The BOD never had a say in this, probably because Prater knew that he couldn't get a majority to back him.

 

[CitationUltra]

Nice idea but...letters, phone calls, E-mails, cornering your LEC reps in the crew room and spouting your opinion are good for blowing off steam, but do absolutely nothing to get Prater recalled.

Why? Because the way it works is that membership participation is required and the only way to do this is through a resolution at your next LEC meeting. You know, where you introduce the resolution with the "Whereas....Whereas....Whereas...Be it Further Resolved...." blah, blah, blah, paragraphs.

then the membership gets to vote on it. IF the membership votes in agreement with you...then it goes to the MEC level...if the MEC votes with you...then it goes to the EB level at National...and they vote on it ( whew !!!)

Good luck

I find this whole idea laughable. Lets see...you wouldn't get organized while the entire age 60 debate was taking place ( witness a 390-0 vote in the House), but now you'll pull out all the stops to get the ALPA President recalled.

You guys are too funny.

Amen, and Amen!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I did not floor a resolution. Others did, I did not oppose, and thats all you need to know.

Typical response. "You have no right to bitch unless you have floored a resolution". Well I got news for you idiot, all you need to know is we were polled twice, the message was clear as do the direction the MAJORITY of the pilots wanted, and it was IGNORED.

What was the outcome of the doc?

Would you like to see the resolution that I brought to the PCL MEC? You can claim that the rest of these guys didn't do their part to influence policy, but you know that you can't say the same about me. I brought the resolution, I talked to members of the EC, I talked to ALPA's senior lobbyist, I even talked to Prater himself as far back as February about this issue. I think I've earned the right to criticize Prater about how he's handled this mess.

What was the result of your resolution?

 

[PCL_128]

What was the result of your resolution?

I usually don't like to talk publicly about what goes on behind closed doors at an MEC meeting, but I'll make an exception this time. I submitted the resolution at an MEC meeting early this year. You might have seen the language (can't remember whether I sent it to you or not). Basically, the resolution stated that the MEC opposes a change to the age limit and urges the MEC Chairman to vote against a change in policy at the EB meeting that we all knew was forthcoming. There was lengthy debate, during which the then MEC Chairman stated that he didn't feel that the MEC should direct him to vote a certain way because he hadn't seen the presentation from Prater and the BRP yet. He stated emphatically that he didn't have a position one way or another, but that he would make a decision on the issue after reviewing all of the information at the EB meeting. With this all in mind, the resolution was moved, seconded, and failed. With no official guidance from the MEC, the Chairman went to the EB and voted in favor of a change to the age limit policy. After this vote, he sent an email to the MEC members stating that "with pleasure," he cast a vote in favor of changing the policy, and that "many of us.....have been working on this for almost a decade." In other words, he lied to the MEC about not having a prior position on the issue, and fully intended to vote a certain way before ever having listened to anything that the membership or the MEC members had to say.

That was the result of the resolution.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Democracy in action..... better than the alternatives...

 

[rtmcfi]

As a formerly ardent ALPA supporter, this 65 crap takes some of the sting out of ALPAs failed drive at SkyWest.