All Airline Pilots MUST READ

[F18-FDX]

Guys & Gals,

I felt compelled to write this post due to the results of last week's elections. For those of you unfamiliar with the Senate's proposed "Airline Labor Dispute Resolution Act", S. 1327, you need to be. This bill could have a DEVASTATING affect on our careers, earnings and our families. If you're not familiar with it, this bill is an attempt to circumvent the Railway Labor Act. The legislation would impose “last offer” baseball style binding arbitration on contract negotiations in the airline industry, effectively destroying airline labor’s ability to negotiate a fair contract. It would allow an arbitrator to pick one side's proposal (i.e. management's) over the other's and make it stick. It takes away airline labor's right to vote on our contracts and even denies our right to strike! This is a Republican bill and has been pushed by all major airline CEOs (gee, I wonder why). These guys have massive political lobbying clout and are buying votes. Obviously with the results of last week's elections, it has a REALISTIC CHANCE of passing.

My point, you ask? If you have not already done so, EVERY pilot needs to CONTACT YOUR SENATORS IMMEDIATELY! It is extremely EASY. If you're not an ALPA member, go to www.congress.org, put in your zip code at the top of the page, then select "write all your elected officials with one click." If you are an ALPA member, log in to the website and click on the "Airline Labor Dispute Resolution Act" icon in the middle of the page, then click on "ACTION ALERT." Type in your zip code and this allows you to shotgun out e-mails to your senators in one easy step, there's even a prepared e-mail if you elect to use it. Either of these take less than 5 minutes, you don't have to write an essay, just urge your senators to oppose S. 1327, the Airline Labor Dispute Resolution Act. Let them know that it is extremely important to you and your family, and that their decision will affect your next vote for, or against them. I have written several times and will continue to do so because my Republican Senators keep writing me back with their party line of how good this bill is.

Hopefully I won't offend anyone since this isn't "interview" or "hiring" related, however I feel very strongly that this issue is TOO IMPORTANT to our futures to not take the few minutes required to let your voice be heard.

 

[gundriver]

Read the Bill before writting

I agree the pay of a pilot is not what it use to be. However, with all things considered any person getting into this line of working thinking he will hit it big is neive. Prior to becoming a pilot I was a research scientist making some really good money. Eventhough I could solve complex problems in my sleep more or less, I never really loved my line of work. These days I get up at all hours to go fly an okay aircraft in all weather for 1500/mo. In all truth it is highway robbery, but a necessary step in the natural chain of becoming a higher experienced pilot. With that in mind, I may not be looking at the same picture and I do not know everything that would make a person object to the of the proposed bill. However, here is a link to the bill.


http://www.amfa33.org/Legislative/sb_1327.htm


One benefit of this bill is the time in which a company can not hold out from giving equable salery. It also allows for a judical appeal. So maybe I'm missing something. You don't have to beat me over the head with your experience. A reasonable arguement is all I'm looking for.

Thanks

 

[F18-FDX]

It's not just about the pay; it's about the most basic rights of a labor group to look out for its members' well being.

The RLA could stand to be revamped, but any new legislation must be a FAIR and REASONABLE alternative. The Airline Labor Dispute Resolution Act however, is far from it. I could support a re-written bill that conserves the tenets of a fair and just negotiation, the basic democratic right of a labor group to vote on a proposed contract as well as the right to self-help as a last resort. This bill however, with its "binding arbitration" language, can force an unfair contract on labor with no right for appeal or further discussion. It is simply another tool in management's pocket to force its agenda whether it be work rules, retirement, compensation or any of the other myriad of issues that arise during the negotiation of a collective bargaining agreement. Major airline CEOs created this bill and are now buying its way through the Senate.

Have at it...read it, then WRITE your Senator!

 

[experto crede]

F18, you need to go to page 27 of the QRH and do the reality check befor departing to the east

 

[beytzim]

management, management....


those evil people....

blame all your life's problems on them!

Yeh, it's all their fault...

those evil dark people who hide up in those towers of doom with nothing else do it in their life but ruin our lives....

Yeh! those incompetent fools! they're the ones who make all the bad decisions! They're the ones who destroy airlines!

Yeh! Strike! Strike! We'll show them!

 

[F18-FDX]

Actually, I'm not blaming any current problems on management. Things are going pretty darn well for me at the moment, but thanks for your concern.

Just trying to do my part in the democracy and help keep the playing field fair for all of us, and for guys like you in the future...that is if you ever make it to a major, of course.

 

[helo to herc]

Ya' know beytzim, your kind of garbage on this board reminds me why I just don't read it much anymore! I have an opinions about the subject hand and they may or may not agree with everybody. But for Christ's sake, be a grown up and if you agree or diasgree with something be a professional and enter the conversation with some intelligence and tact.

 

[EMB145]

One thing is for sure:

All union represented or aspiring professional pilot should study the bill!

Having said that, you may agree or disagree with it, however, you should know ALL the direct and indirect implications it has on your career and the labor's ability to negotiate with the employer.
No one should say how to act on it. Decide for yourself, based on your future goals and needs and based on the labor unions' checkered past results.

Off the soap box.

 

[beytzim]

To "F18=FDX'

You're on the fractional section of flightinfo. What makes you think I want to work for a "major" airline. I already work for the best aviation company in the world and I have no reason to leave.

To "Helo to Herc'

Quite frankly, that post was quite professional. I didn't mention any names, but simply remarked in an off-handed (perhaps sly) way on how ridiculous "F18-FDX's" post was. I did not insult an individual person.

YOU, on the other hand, personally attacked me. Drop your management bashing, and keep it on the 'majors' section, where it belongs.

Get a Life, buddy.

 

[helo to herc]

The way that I have read these posts, beytzim, is that nobody was blaming anybody for their life's problems until your post....which I still do not quite understand. F18-FDX is using these boards the way they were meant to be used- open communications discussing the issuses of the aviation industry. Like his point or not, he is sharing what he think is important in his world and probably to many others. Ignore it or be a freakin' grown up about your comments. Your **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** right I attacked you because that is the type of crap that seems to be prevailing on these boards and regardless what you think of your original post it was insulting.
Last but not least...since when is the "fractional" message board reserved only for frac pilots and when did appoint yourself to speak for us a whole?
Go back to being a management lackey!

 

[Lrjet55]

Can't we all just get along...because I can gauron**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**tee you both work for the same company and both of you happen to be in the same airplane together and, last but not least, you are going to fly together as well.

 

[F18-FDX]

beytzim,

Yeah, whatever...but if you can't play hardball, don't throw the first pitch.

 

[hogdriver00]

What happened?

Two things.

I called my Senators to tell them I support their bill.

How did you go from being a Hornet guy to a Union B#$ch


Hog

 

[beytzim]

Union B*&ch. I like that!

You major airline guys are just 'too good' for us scummy 'fractionals', so stay away.

Our lives don't revolve bashing managemant all day and whining that we can't afford the second yacht or our third house. Whine, whine, whine.

We actually like our jobs! What? I know, unheard of!!

People like you need a life OUTSIDE of your job!


FIGHTS ON!

 

[F18-FDX]

Sorry, but I won't be taking your bait. A good fight requires a worthy opponent and unfortunately you don't pass the litmus test. And why so bitter? I've said nothing about "major airline guys" being "too good," those are your words. Apparently you're easily intimidated.

Oh, and one more thing, try not to let your jealousy show in such a public forum...it's demeaning.

 

[flexlrpilot357]

F-18-FDX,

You make a rather incendiary, opinionated, and decidedly irrelevant post about a very divisive issue that doesn't even concern all "Fractionals" and then you take the holier-than-thou position when some of the monkeys throw the poop back at you.

Regardless of our individual positions on the "issue" that you've presented, unions, or the government, you're a spammer and a troll, and you deserve any grief you get.

You should have followed your first instinct, which you described at the end of your first letter. In short, we don't care how strongly you feel about something; if we want to read about it, we'll look in the appropriate place.

The egotism you display through your intention to educate us all about this "important matter" is shining through nicely.

 

[F18-FDX]

I made my point, and then responded to shots in my direction. If you can't handle it, don't play. But for God's sake, have some foresight, it's not about the Fractionals. If you are shortsighted enough to think this issue will never affect you, you deserve whatever comes (or doesn't come) your way.

As I write this, the quote, "never argue with an idiot" comes to mind, so instead of wasting any more of my time with the select few of you on this thread, I think I'll stick to the other boards where I can correspond with intelligent life. See ya.

 

[boxcar]

"As I write this, the quote, "never argue with an idiot" comes to mind, so instead of wasting any more of my time with the select few of you on this thread, I think I'll stick to the other boards where I can correspond with intelligent life. See ya."

Bye, and don't let the door hit you in the a**!

 

[flexlrpilot357]

Never argue with an idiot.

You may think you've made your point, F18, but you missed the point. (namely, take your lecturing to the appropriate forum.) You didn't even make your point, really, because of its irrelevancy to this forum.

Meanwhile, by your inability to see where you're wrong, and by engaging in petty side-squabbles, you've added credence to my hypothesis that you're both an egotist and an idiot, as well as an uneducated quasi-political blowhard.

I (and many of the other participants on this board) are quite capable of "handling it", as you say. But the point is moot: you're leaving, so we won't have to argue with the idiot any more.

 

[hogdriver00]

answer

You never answered the question from my last post.

 

[Tref]

F18-FDX,

Thank you for getting the word out about this legislation that could very negatively affect the lives of all pilots. It makes me sad that your message was not received in a more positive manner.

I can not understand why any pilot would support this bill. Not only does it take away the rights of pilots to strike (self help) but the devil is indeed hidden in the details. Read the fine print; if pilots are to receive a pay raise, other employee groups must receive the same raise. As if that is not enough, pilots can not receive a raise if it costs the company money.

Hmmm, I guess the only way pilots will ever get a raise will be to change work rules and work harder. This is the same thing that has happened to the railroads over the years.

Even pilots who do not work for union companies should be interested in this bill because often times union companies raise the bar for the whole industry.

This bill is a blatant assault on organized labor in America and must be opposed. I urge all pilots to do as F18-FDX suggested and write to your representatives and insist that they oppose this legislation.

I do not intend for this message to be inflammatory and I understand that many on this forum think that this will not affect them. I think that as pilots, we all have to stick together. What is bad for pilots in one part of the industry is bad for everyone. Sometimes it just takes some time to realize how things have changed. I won't respond to any further comments on this thread, I just urge each and every one of you to become involved on this very important issue.

 

[hogdriver00]

Union Bill

**This bill is a blatant assault on organized labor in America and must be opposed. I urge all pilots to do as F18-FDX suggested and write to your representatives and insist that they oppose this legislation. **

Maybe the unions need to get slapped around a little to get their collective heads out of their butts or to get off the crack pipe that these UAL guys are smoking. The paragraph below is from an article on the Fortune website about United and it's big plan to save itself. It's a little dated but the ideas are still valid.

**United got off to a weak start. It first applied to the ATSB with nothing more than a proposed 5% pay cut from management and 10% from the pilots. And the pilots' concession was even less than met the eye. After taking a dip, their pay was to shoot back up, so that by 2006 senior captains would be making $295,000 a year, even more than they would have made under their original contract. "Where United started was borderline laughable," says a top government official familiar with the ATSB negotiations. "They thought they could get guarantees by getting their Congressmen to call." **

Of course everyone wants and supports higher pay but proposals like this destroy the credibility of all pilots when it comes to wage issues.

At some point the unions are going to have to give up the pre-deregulation view of the industry and move into the present day. The only way to keep the industry afloat as it stands now is through government subsidies. If that is the union’s true goal then why stop there. Let's have the government pay everyone’s health care costs. Let's give everyone 8 weeks of paid vacation a year. Let's not forget the big raise the government owes us. Should Uncle Sam give everyone a vacation home in the Bahamas too? Where does it end?


The question I have for you union guys is this. If at the end of the day United goes the way of Eastern, was it worth it? John Sweeney will still have his job but will the pilots, FA's, and Mech's

Hog

 

[ksu_aviator]

Do some research. I checked the schedules for both the House and Senate and this bill does not exist. Its a rumor and nothing more.

 

[hogdriver00]

Cats

Go Cats. The BCS blows!!