alcohol incident effects

[rjl2001]

OK, thought maybe someone in here could shed some light on my question. Right now I am USCG enlisted with a year left of active duty. Have had plans of finishing my degree when I get out, and getting a comission into the USAF or USN via ROTC/OCS. Am thinking NFO in the USN/USMC in particular.

Last weekend I was arrested for 'drunk in public' after my neighbor called the police and they found me passed out on my doorstep as I did not have my keys and was locked out of my apartment. Yes I was drunk, and yes I was in public I suppose by all of 1 foot. My command slapped me with what the CG calls an 'alcohol incident' and now I am left wondering what adverse effects this could/may cause me in the future? Could this be a definite deal breaker when applying for that NFO slot, or an AF Air Battle Manager?

 

[SIG600]

Own up to it, and walk a straight line from here out. I don't think it'll be a deal breaker. Fitreps and CO's letters of recommendation are gonna say more about you than passing out on the lawn and getting stupid charge like that. Just own up to it and move on. Why NFO out of curiosity?

 

[Pistlpetet]

Pay to get yourself a good lawyer. Let the lawyer get the thing thrown out, by his secret handshakes, or arranging to have you make a contribution to local police fund. Innocent until proven guilty. If charges are dropped, your command "Should" retract their "Punishment". If it is thrown out, in essence you should never have been arrested. In america they can arrest you for anything, does not mean you are guilty. Like SIG said, own up to it, but fight like a MOFO to get it washed away. If you are an enlisted guy, it is not like they are going put that on your DD214 when you get out. If you get out, and apply to a officer program, telling them you got arrested for something so stupid (Like not everyone has been drunk in public before), and it was thrown out of court, it should not be a show stopper.

A friend of mine got a DUI as Senior CPT. Luckily in Louisianna you pay some cash, do some community service, and it is wiped away for first timers. He got no bad paperwork, got promoted to MAJ, and it was a non-event.

Only in America could they actually arrest somebody for such a stupid thing. Even more stupid, they have started to arrest drunk people in bars for DIP. Good luck, Don't get shafted by some obviously stupid arrest and law.

____________________________________________________________

SAN ANTONIO, Texas (Reuters) - Texas has begun sending undercover agents into bars to arrest drinkers for being drunk, a spokeswoman for the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission said on Wednesday.

The first sting operation was conducted recently in a Dallas suburb where agents infiltrated 36 bars and arrested 30 people for public intoxication, said the commission's Carolyn Beck.
Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public drunkenness, Beck said.
The goal, she said, was to detain drunks before they leave a bar and go do something dangerous like drive a car.

"We feel that the only way we're going to get at the drunk driving problem and the problem of people hurting each other while drunk is by crackdowns like this," she said.
"There are a lot of dangerous and stupid things people do when they're intoxicated, other than get behind the wheel of a car," Beck said. "People walk out into traffic and get run over, people jump off of balconies trying to reach a swimming pool and miss."
She said the sting operations would continue throughout the state.

 

[rjl2001]

OK guys, appreciate the feedback. Think I've decided I will talk to a lawyer and see if they can help. If I try to get it knocked out of court, I can't make things any worse by trying right? But it's reassuring to know that this should not hinder my chances of getting a comission.

As far as why NFO... I've given up hope that I'll wake up one day with better depth perception. Plus the more I've looked into the job, it actually seems like something I would enjoy doing. Ya, everyone wants to fly, but NFO looks just as challenging and most of their missions sound pretty interesting to me.

And I've read that before about charging people with being drunk in public while in a bar. Apparently in VA theres been a couple cities that actually had undercover police inside bars just waiting to arrest people for that. No matter if they are being loud or troublesome. Guess you just have to be that much more cautious about drinking. Coming from duty in Key West, half of Duval St. would be guilty of that charge on any given night lol.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Not really clear, but I assume you live off-base? If so, you'll go to civil court downtown for this and I wholeheartedly agree with the above posters that a lawyer should be able to get this thrown out (i.e. charges dropped). If you successfully get the charges dropped, then the incident should have no bearing whatsoever on your future in the military because, in essence, it never happened. The Area Defense Council (ADC) office on base (or a nearby base) should have a military lawyer who can recommend some options, a course of action, and a civillian attorney for your appearance in court. They (the ADC) deal with this type of thing on a frequent basis.

I do not agree with the above posters, however, when they say that you should own up to it with your chain of command (assuming a criminal charge from uncle sam). If the military is charging you with something, you will be read your rights - two of which are the right to remain silent and and the right to an attorney. Take them up on those rights - clam up and call the ADC.

 

[SIG600]

I do not agree with the above posters, however, when they say that you should own up to it with your chain of command (assuming a criminal charge from uncle sam). If the military is charging you with something, you will be read your rights - two of which are the right to remain silent and and the right to an attorney. Take them up on those rights - clam up and call the ADC.

So you're saying he SHOULDN'T tell/have told his chain of command?

 

[Mooseflyer]

So you're saying he SHOULDN'T tell/have told his chain of command?

He says he was "slapped with an alcohol incident" from somone in his chain of command. Not very descriptive - did he mean some sort of administrative reprimand or an actual UCMJ charge?
I'm saying if he has an actual UCMJ charge pending (had his rights read to him), then he should not say another word before seeking legal council.

 

[Purple Promisee]

Not legal advice, but a roadmap of things to consider:

A lawyer (one who knows civilian and military law) may be able to beat the civil charge, or - perhaps just as good - plead it down to something not alcohol related (public nuisance, etc.).

Your military situation depends on what type of proceeding has occured. At an Article 15 (the Navy calls it Captain's Mast, I believe the CG does too) then beating the civilian ticket won't equal beating the Article 15 b/c the burden/standard of proof is lower. I.e. the CO can impose disciplinary action on you even if there's not enough evidence to convict you in a criminal (Court Martial) proceeding. --It goes back to Mast being an instrument of leadership, not of justice ... one of those things that causes folks to say military justice is to justice what military music is to music.

If an individual has beaten a civilian rap and hasn't yet gone to an article 15 (but is being "sent" to one), the individual may consider "refusing the Article 15 in lieu of Court Martial" (something that's your right, unless you're underway at the time of the Art. 15, not the incident, this is important b/c a common commander's tactic is to wait until being underway to hold Art 15's for all the "bad actors" from the previous ashore period). This does not mean that they have to court martial the individual, just that it's their only punitive alternative.

The case gets turned over to the JAG corps and if they don't think they have the evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt (e.g. no underlying civil conviction, no eyewitnesses w/ expertise in intoxication (your d/h neighbor)) they drop it ... end of story*.

BUT: one should weigh heavily the consequences of refusing mast i/l/o court martial ... it's like saying the F word in front of mom. You're playing w/ the big boys now and if you lose i.e., they do decide to court martial you and you lose, that would be the worse possible outcome -- severe implications to military and civilian career potential; whereas an article 15 would probably limit your military option (officer accession program) but it's not a criminal conviction and nobody "out here" knows what it is

*unless of course the case has such political gravitas that the JAG's get strong armed into pushing a rope -- this happened in Tailhook -- lots of bad acts, no hard evidence of who dunnit, forced courts martial, no convictions.

AGAIN, not legal advice ... but I think you need some. get a lawyer who knows mil law as well as civilian crim law. The phone books are full of 'em, or email me offline, I can help you find one in your jurisdiction.

 

[SIG600]

He says he was "slapped with an alcohol incident" from somone in his chain of command. Not very descriptive - did he mean some sort of administrative reprimand or an actual UCMJ charge?
I'm saying if he has an actual UCMJ charge pending (had his rights read to him), then he should not say another word before seeking legal council.

Rog, personally I think a UCMJ charge is a little excessive for something that stupid. Maybe NJP, and a little "you're a retard, you know you screwed up" counceling... but past performance/behavior would probably dictate the path best taken more than anything.


On a side note... I'd like to thank the politicians in the great state of Texas for trying to save us, from ourselves. If I was a bar owner (or any place that sells alcohol) I'd be PISSED. I can see this happening in California, but Texas??? If any state was far from crazy I thought it was them. Getting piss drink on a night out with your friends is a god given right as an American!

 

[rhinodriver]

Heck, sounds like you would fit right in! Wish you were in my squadron. If this had happened to an Officer we would be joking about it for the rest of his time in the squadron. The only difference is you got caught. Maybe he'd even get a really cool callsign out of it. Something like "convict" or maybe "doormat". The only real killer now is the dreaded DUI...

 

[skiddriver]

First, this may have changed since I was CO, and the court martial authority for my command, but you can't hold NJP without a valid UCMJ charge, even the ubiquitous "conduct unbecoming".

I never held NJP based on a civilian arrest. I did hold it for a related military offense, or uauthorized absence due to being held in civlian custody, AFTER the civilian charge was validated through a civilian court proceeding.

Whether or not to inform your command concerning the arrest is a judgment call. Unless your command/service has a standing order requiring this (and it would be hard to see how that could be the case) you are under no obligation to pass the information on. As a former squadron level CO, I would have just as soon not heard about an incident like this.

If you think you have a drinking problem and you need some help, go see the Doc. If you are being held in custody and know you are going to miss muster in the morning, you need to call the duty officer. If you get picked up on Bourbon St. for public intox and go through the NOPD "catch and release" process on Friday night, and are in the barracks Saturday afternoon nursing a hangover, take an aspirin and drink plenty of water.

 

[coexint]

rjl2001,

I got a drunk in public 3 weeks before my assignment night (USAF pilot training, T-38 Track), and got a verbal slap on the rist from my commander. Then 3 weeks later I got my first choice, A-10's to Davis-Monthan! So it wasn't that big of a deal. On another note, when I applied for a USAF pilot slot through OTS, about 2 years ago, I told them I experimented with weed in high school and I still got a slot. Keep your head up, it's probably not as bad as you think!

David

 

[ultrarunner]

Last weekend I was arrested for 'drunk in public' after my neighbor called the police and they found me passed out on my doorstep as I did not have my keys and was locked out of my apartment. Yes I was drunk, and yes I was in public I suppose by all of 1 foot.

One can't be drunk on their own property? $hit, I'll never be able to step outside again!

 

[rjl2001]

Well after looking up alcohol incident on google at work the other day, I found out a little more. It is NJP and the CG's way of dealing with all alcohol related incidents. Defined as:

Any behavior, in which alcohol is determined by the Commanding Officer to be a significant or causative factor, that results in the member's loss of ability to perform assigned duties, brings discredit upon the Uniformed Services, or is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Federal, State, or local laws. The member need not be found guilty at court-martial, in a civilian court, or be awarded non-judicial punishment for the behavior to be considered an alcohol incident.​

Results are:​

CDAR Interview
Counseled on Policy
Next Incident; Processed for Separation
Treatment or Education as determined by screening
Appropriate Documentation
CG-3307 for Enlisted, Letter for officers

Also, it says lower marks and loss of good conduct medal I would've recieved in a few weeks. On the brighter side I passed both the CO and XO yesterday and talked for a minute with them, and this subject never came up and they didn't seem angry with me at all.

 

[skiddriver]

It sounds to me like you have decided that you are fairly caught and are going to accept the characterization of this event as an alcohol related incident. I would advise you to go speak to a CG lawyer and explain that you have retained civilian legal counsel and are going to try and have the charges thrown out, which will render the apprehension invalid.

If the charge sticks and the arrest is valid, you're stuck.

If you succeed in getting the charges dropped, then there will be no basis for the alcohol related incident characterization. You did have something to drink, but since you were locked out of your house, you fell asleep on the steps. Nowhere in that is there anything that meets the standards of "loss of ability to perform assigned duties, brings discredit upon the Uniformed Services, or is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Federal, State, or local laws". Even if you were UA due to being held in civilian custody, if the arrest was invalid, then you have not violated any part of the UCMJ. The civilian LEO screwed up, that's all there is to it.

Your CO is not going to want to "undo" the characterization, so get the military lawyer to help you with that. If you need to bump it up the chain, do it.

Good luck.

And OBTW, it's not NJP, it's an administrative procedure. The CO has to hold mast for it to be NJP, and for that, you have to be charged with a UCMJ offense. Were you?

 

[Falconjet]

First off let me say that I am not trying to judge you or anybody else on this board. This is a case, though, where you have to be careful about assuming that the way things worked in your service is the way they work in another service, particularly the CG.

An alcohol incident in the CG, as described above from the google search, is just that, an INCIDENT. There don't have to be any charges of any kind ever filed. You could mouth off at a senior officer during a unit softball game and if somebody thinks you did it because you had a few too many beers, that can be determined to be an alcohol related incident. It doesn't normally happen like that, but it can.

It is an administrative determination that goes into your service record via fitness report or enlisted evaluation, and that is about the end of it. All they are saying is that you demonstrated some behavior that you wouldn't have if you hadn't been under the influence of alcohol. Thats it. No arrest, no charges, no conviction, nothing. They became aware of the behavior and they documented it and now they are going to try to "help" you with the alcohol screening and whatnot. Believe it or not, they are trying to help you because you have demonstrated a behavior which indicates you might be heading down the road to alcoholism, and they want to nip it in the bud. Is that warranted? Probably not, but that is the way it goes now in the hyper politically correct CG. The good news is that after its all said and done none of this should follow you outside of the CG.

As for the drunk in public charge, that is a different matter altogether. Getting a civilian lawyer to help you with that is certainly excellent advice. The CG doesn't have many lawyers, and they aren't detailed to help CG personnel with personal legal issues, they are there to serve the CG's legal needs. You might be able to find a local reserve/DOD lawyer who can help you if there is a unit nearby that has some, but knowing how small and remote many CG units are I realize that would be unlikely.

Hopefully you can get a lawyer to get the town to drop or reduce the charges, you can get past the alcohol incident in your record, get out of the CG and go on to do great things. This should only be a small learning experience in the big scheme of things.

I've seen officers and enlisted do much worse things while under the influence that never got an incident, but times have changed and as others said, you just happened to get caught. Hopefully it was a one time, isolated occurance and you will be fine.

Good luck.

FJ

 

[skiddriver]

I actually pulled up the USCG publication and read the applicable parts before I posted. It is essentially the same as the USMC program (no surprise there) except a change has specified that you have to have actually ingested alcohol to have an incident characterized as alcohol related. I'm sure that there was a reason for that change, probably an incredibly stupid CO.

I referred folks to evaluation and characterized several incidents as alcohol related as a squadron level CO (mini-MAG O-5 command). It is not as benign as this young man is being lead to believe, and he has options that have not been presented to him. He needs to work with his civilian lawyer, and go see a military one.

Any administrative procedure that has the potential to reduce proficiency and conduct marks and to deny receipt of a good conduct medal is not something to shrug off, or to blithely accept being stuck in your permanent record.

My .02 cents.

 

[Pistlpetet]

Heck, sounds like you would fit right in! Wish you were in my squadron. If this had happened to an Officer we would be joking about it for the rest of his time in the squadron. The only difference is you got caught. Maybe he'd even get a really cool callsign out of it. Something like "convict" or maybe "doormat". The only real killer now is the dreaded DUI...

I vote for Call Sign "Doormat"...LOL